. . . jack of all trades system . . . ?

[CJSF]

:doh: I'm Puzzled . . . the advise sought on here is so often 'music style' related? "Twenty five years ago, this was rarely a consideration, from what I remember of the media recommendation, and reviews, or for that fact, my own perception of what was going on . . . Surly, without a jack of all trade system, life is going to get very frustrating, if you only listen to Classical or exclusively Rock music??? Its interesting when one reads a review, it usually says; on this track I noticed xxxx, an that track it was yyyyy . . . finalised with; great product, nine out of ten. The various track are usually a cross section of music styles and type. To tune for one music style seems very short sighted on the part of the manufacturer or the consumer? May be here in is my need to tune and tinker with my system, as I 'sometimes' do. Its aimed at getting the best across the board out of what I have, to think of changing an item because it fails to quite live up to expectations seem dramatic. Equally 'one size fits all' is impractical, however I look at my newly assembled modest system and find it pleases me in my wide taste of music, from Classical to big Church Organ, Country through 80's Rock. Some fine tuning may happen, but in general term, there is no desperation to change any major component. I have Dynamics, good base extension, amazing mid range information and a clean top end, all together presenting a fine sound-stage, in short, musicality to enjoy. Am I out of date, getting old, missed the point, or simply 'a grumpy old git'? . . . CJSF

 

[chebby]

To a certain extent you are going to have systems that sound best with a certain kind of music.

An Arcam Solo-Mini with a little pair of Spendor S3/5Rs is hardly going to be the first choice of hi-fi for a hard-core Drum & Bass fan!

Equally, a rack of massive power amps driving a 7.1 speaker system that resembles Stonehenge is not going to be the 1st choice of someone who only wants a little light chamber music or smooth jazz playing at moderate volumes in a study or dining room

 

[matthewpiano]

A good system should be able to play all music well in my opinion.

I get very frustrated when people describe a warm and comfortable sounding system as being ideal for classical music, for example. Really?? Maybe if all you listen to is pretend classics like Katherine Jenkins, but not otherwise. Classical music needs huge dynamic range (an amplifier with strong current delivery and sufficient power on tap), the ability to produce a huge frequency range from those double basses all the way up to the piccolo and it needs to be able to keep control of huge soundstages and textures without struggling and blurring the musical message. So, in a word 'huge'! Not so different to what a rock album requires is it? In the same way that you want your 'Who' to have rhythmic tightness and punch, you want the same with a piece of Katchaturian like the 'Sabre Dance', and in the same way that you want to hear as much detail as possible from John Renbourn's guitar you want to be able to enjoy as much of the resonance of a concert grand piano as you can.

I listen to a massive range of music and I expect my system to reproduce all of it equally well.

 

[CnoEvil]

A definitive answer to your question is far from easy to give, due to the subjectivity of it all.
What one person thinks is an all round system, another can't get on with it, for any music.

A lot of valve amps sound completely magical with acoustic and classical music; but another solution is needed if you listen to "Cradle of filth".

If you like a neutral, analytical sound, you will generally like it across all types of music.

For me, I have found the AMS 35i makes everything sound as it should. Also some good Hybrids seem to give the best of both Tubes and SS. There are very good dynamic Tube amps, but they are inclined to be expensive.

If an individual hates certain genres eg. Drum and Bass or Techno...then room shaking bass is of no importance. If you like classical and acoustic, a good (richer) mid range is often advisable.

A very woolly answer I'm afraid.

Cno

 

[tino]

I have Dynamics, good base extension, amazing mid range information and a clean top end, all together presenting a fine sound-stage, in short, musicality to enjoy.

I think this is your subjective assessment of your own system that objectively, probably measures well across the board. I, like you, would expect that for a given price range, the electronics/electromechnical components would be designed to have a good baseline performance. The more you pay, the more I would expect this baseline to ratchet up a notch. All systems employ some kind of tradeoff, and perhaps its this aspect that makes some components respond better with certain types of music - they trade off performance in one area for another. Having some data about what these tradeoffs are, would allow us to choose or match the components we thought would play to the particular strengths of the kind of music we like to hear.

I'd be interested to know how a system that "sounds great with guitar strings, or voices, or jazz" actually measures. This kind of information is missing in a lot of reviews. What is it about the physical characteristics that do this? It would be nice to see some more concrete data in reviews that actually back up some wooly asessment of how the music sounds.

Then again .. if it sounds good, or brings about some emotional experience in you, who cares about the data

 

[CJSF]

To a certain extent you are going to have systems that sound best with a certain kind of music.

An Arcam Solo-Mini with a little pair of Spendor S3/5Rs is hardly going to be the first choice of hi-fi for a hard-core Drum & Bass fan!

Equally, a rack of massive power amps driving a 7.1 speaker system that resembles Stonehenge is not going to be the 1st choice of someone who only wants a little light chamber music or smooth jazz playing at moderate volumes in a study or dining room

Yes Chebby I understand this, but, these days, there does seem to be an emphasis on music style? I can understand fully, room/system size relationships . . . and heavy rock on a pair of 35a's in a barn might be a bit of a let down, been there . . .

I just see this pattern of, 'my music style is, what xxxx yyyyyyy are best' etc. Going back all those years, it was dynamics, transparency, image as majour considerations, then room/system size. Music style brought up the rear as a given, one expected the product to perform within the confines of system and budget, if not, it was given a rasberry or at best, a cool respons in the reviews, most of the time . . . ????

And musicality, true musicality seems to be a rarely considered thing these days, I'm not talking about pipe and slipper sounds, thats relaxed. Musicality draws you in, like a beautiful woman crooking her finger, beconing . . .?

Ah well, I'm certainly getting old . . . CJSF

 

[CnoEvil]

Musicality draws you in, like a beautiful woman crooking her finger, beconing . . .?

Ah well, I'm certainly getting old . . . CJSF

...not too old by the sound of it.

 

[CJSF]

I'm pleased with the answers so far . . . I'm obviously not the only one who believes a good system . . . sorry, 'well balanced' . . . regardless of cost should deliver the goods at its level on the price ladder.

The other question that is begged; the obvious reduction over the years in auditioning, maybe this is one of the reasons for so much . . . 'where do I go now?' . . . type questions.

To get it right, a journey to audition may be required, I recently traveled 60 miles each way, speakers, stands, interconnects and all, to audition my amplifier and CD options . . . Such long journeys were not usually required 20 years ago. Considering the thousands of pounds even a simple system can cost, to compromise this outlay, to me, would seem unthinkable. Plus, my experience was a pleasant reassuring few hours, I would like to think all modern hifi dealers were in the business of creating an experience?

CJSF

 

[tino]

Re: auditioning ... I have to confess, that other than my Linns that were bought many moons ago from a now hardcore audiophile friend, all of the rest of my equipment has been bought unheard. Then again I have set myself a £500-£600 price point (new or used) on each of the major pieces of equipment and I expect that for this amount of money I think can expect a pretty good quality system regardless of what I buy. Reviews and forums like this serve as useful and knowledgable backup information to affirm the purchase. I must admit that I probably struck lucky with my Italian speakers and CD player (ex-dem components). These were far pricier new than when I bought them, so I am very happy at the £1k+ performamce level for the £500 outlay ... and yes they sound good across all types of music

If I were to spend serious amounts of money, then yes I would go for an audition or home loan. But I'm not sure I'll ever be spending that amount of money unless I win the lottery. Those old fanged valves do intrigue me though and I might just have to go and have a listen at a local dealer.

PS I just did a trawl on eBay and got a shock at how much my speakers are now worth ... must mean they sound even better now than 5 years ago :O

 

[Anonymous]

FWIW, what drew me to the EPOS ES14s and kept me with EPOS when I upgraded to the ES30s, was the speakers ability to portray any music style so well. OK they aren't the most punchy of speakers when it comes to bass slam and they dont go massively deep, but what they sacrifice in a little bass extension is rewarded for sublime tonality across the rest of the frequency range. I occasionally play classical - from piano concertos and percussion, to Tchaikovsky and Shostakovich symphonies and my system is very musical and easy to listen to for hours. I recently tried a pair of Kudos Cardea C30s and the difference wasn't enough to justify the expense, which reinforced the idea that my speakers are (a) pretty good and (b) suited to my tastes.

I guess I would sum the speakers up by saying - its not that they do anything particularly well, but they dont have any flaws, and its this lack of flaws which makes them a good "all rounder".

ES30s were £2500 retail way back, you can pick them up for under a grand on Fleabay.