Issue with my Pioneer!

[atkins4725]

[/quote]

I am able to do exactly that with my Oppo 95 and Pioneer LX83. Got analogue stereo connections hooked up so I can use the superior DACs of the Oppo for 2 channel stereo music. For everything else I use HDMI and the processing of the LX83.

[/quote]

Which inputs do you have the analogues going into on the Pioneer, do you also get OVER displayed in red?? (It seems to flash up consistent with bass).

For some reason when I tried the MULTI CH outputs on my 751, the Pioneer doesn't display OVER, but when I use the dedicated stereo outputs, it does display OVER?? The chaps at Pioneer told me not to worry about it, that it could just be how the cd is recorded, or a heavy bass line?? Also said that the Pioneer could be detecting a clipping from the source??

 

[ellisdj]

Thats BS to fob you off! it would be the same for both

Plug.those analogues into another.amp.it will be perfect i am.sure.

I know on pure direct on the 83 over didnt flash up so the AD was not happening in that mode.

The fact it doesnt do it for the analogue outs on the source.makes it seem that would be the same.

It obviously doesnt like the full voltage of a cd player type input into the multi channel inputs.

Does it do it on pure direct with the analogues plugged into the CD input - the designed analogue input??

 

[atkins4725]

Thats BS to fob you off! it would be the same for both

Plug.those analogues into another.amp.it will be perfect i am.sure.

I know on pure direct on the 83 over didnt flash up so the AD was not happening in that mode.

The fact it doesnt do it for the analogue outs on the source.makes it seem that would be the same.

It obviously doesnt like the full voltage of a cd player type input into the multi channel inputs.

Does it do it on pure direct with the analogues plugged into the CD input - the designed analogue input??

The guy definitely wasn't confident about what he was saying to be honest, he kept contradicting himself.

Yeah, it does it regardless of what analogue input is used. Only difference is with the CD analogue input (using direct mode) I'm able to use the ATT function.

 

[ellisdj]

You have got to.admit it sounds like its going through the AD chip whichever route you plug in.with analogue

I was thinking maybe the circuit route is the same regardless of inputs however certain chips/things are disabled on certain modes i.e pure direct.

The chip still.gets power but does nothing but detects the overload voltage and shows up.

On the 83 the over corresponded with slight distortion - not huge but enough to hear it.

If your def getting no distortion it may be ok, but if its still being converted back to digital which it could well be the best solution is to plug in digital via coax to stop that extra conversion.

Thats why i have been.saying try it.

If it sounds more immediate, closer to the sound, letting you at it more - maybe touch rougher then i think i am.right.

You have to.adjust be its pretty easy hear that is more correct if that makes sense

 

[michael hoy]

Thats is because the analogue input signal is overloading the Analogue to Digital Conversion chip.

You can either do - on the LX83 remote you slid down the panel and pressed the number 4 button which is ATT. You will need to find this on the LX86 remote

That attenuates the Input and stops the overload disortion. You will need to turn the overall volume up much more.

This is correct, had to do this with my 85 feeding from a OPPO 95 via analogue.

Replying to my own post here.

Just rechecked and it is only when using the stereo out and in that the ATT appeared, not the multi channel connection.

Apologies for the confusion.

 

[atkins4725]

You have got to.admit it sounds like its going through the AD chip whichever route you plug in.with analogue

I was thinking maybe the circuit route is the same regardless of inputs however certain chips/things are disabled on certain modes i.e pure direct.

The chip still.gets power but does nothing but detects the overload voltage and shows up.

On the 83 the over corresponded with slight distortion - not huge but enough to hear it.

If your def getting no distortion it may be ok, but if its still being converted back to digital which it could well be the best solution is to plug in digital via coax to stop that extra conversion.

Thats why i have been.saying try it.

If it sounds more immediate, closer to the sound, letting you at it more - maybe touch rougher then i think i am.right.

You have to.adjust be its pretty easy hear that is more correct if that makes sense

Unfortunately I think your correct |( lol. Unless, the DAC is getting power but not actually doin anything, no way of knowing I guess.

I can't hear any distortion what so ever but now I find myself very hesitant to turn it up in case something blows!!

I tried the the coaxial earlier today but only had a quick 10 minute listen. Sounded very nice to be honest.

 

[ellisdj]

Its the A/D thats the problem not the dac. The A/D conversion kills the sound quality

Can i suggest using a long coax cable to you

Graham slee lautus @1.5m is perfect its also a great coax because of the 75ohm cable.

You can get one on free home demo

 

[atkins4725]

Its the A/D thats the problem not the dac. The A/D conversion kills the sound quality

Can i suggest using a long coax cable to you

Graham slee lautus @1.5m is perfect its also a great coax because of the 75ohm cable.

You can get one on free home demo

I'd welcome a side by side comparison, especially if it doesn't cost £££. Where is the free home demo from?

 

[ellisdj]

Its direct from them, you register on their forum and contact one of the members who runs the home loan.service

There is a.fair.bit online.about longer.digital cables,

That.aside slee does 2 cables - the lautus is better

 

[atkins4725]

Ok thanks, ill have a look.

Just been fiddling about with my kit, this OVER signal is very frustraring!! I previously said OVER didn't show when the 7.1 analogue outputs were used. Well in fact it does, i'd previously applied a trim level of 2db to the 751. When I put it back to zero earlier today, OVER flashed up on the PIONEER!!

Don't half miss my Marantz for stereo :-(

 

[ellisdj]

Its a classic case of features over design - its there as a feature but not designed for 100% sound quality which.is not.surprising very few people will use it

Always best to feed an av receiver a digital.signal as its.90% of is intended design use.

I wonder how many people are making the same mistake without realising

 

[jase fox]

Always best to feed an av receiver a digital.signal as its.90% of is intended design use.

I totally agree !!

 

[bigboss]

Always best to feed an av receiver a digital.signal as its.90% of is intended design use.

I totally agree !!

Although it totally defeats the OP's purpose of buying the CA 751BD to use its DAC...

 

[jase fox]

Always best to feed an av receiver a digital.signal as its.90% of is intended design use.

I totally agree !!

Although it totally defeats the OP's purpose of buying the CA 751BD to use its DAC...

So it seems

 

[buzz_lightclick]

Always best to feed an av receiver a digital.signal as its.90% of is intended design use.

I totally agree !!

Although it totally defeats the OP's purpose of buying the CA 751BD to use its DAC...

Exactly, one of the main reasons to own a high end blu ray player like the CA 751, or in my case the Oppo 95, is to try its DACs via the analogue outs.

 

[ellisdj]

Thats normally well and.good and in some.cases makes sense

However if the receiver its being fed into converts the.analogue back to digital then its the receivers dacs you are actually hearing not the source.

In this instance then its best to feed digital in. Feeding analogue in is making the sound worse regardless of.any dacs used in.the source

I think its important to find this out or the.only way to play safe is.feed.digital.in and trust the dac in the receiver.

 

[atkins4725]

Spoke to CA who kindly pointed me in the direction of the 751R which has a 2v output lol. something i'd consider to honest. The Pioneer is clearly not able to give me what i need from it. Either that or buy a dedicated amp.

They also said to give these a go http://www.electricalmate.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=Monacor-ILA-1020-Passive-Level-Attenuator-(Pair)&gclid=CI-Yp_jhgr4CFUTHtAodUCIAew

 

[ellisdj]

I think try the pioneer out as i.have said,

You already own it and i assume you like it you just need to wire it up differently

Why do you think the dac implementation in the blu ray will be.better than the pioneer.

If you are intent on using it that way then some attenuators are worth trying for £14

 

[ellisdj]

I like the look of the power supply in the 751R

 

[atkins4725]

I think try the pioneer out as i.have said,

You already own it and i assume you like it you just need to wire it up differently

Why do you think the dac implementation in the blu ray will be.better than the pioneer.

If you are intent on using it that way then some attenuators are worth trying for £14

I've wired it up via the coax with a Chord Prodac and I've heard my system sounding better with stereo when using it's dedicated 2 channel analogue out puts.

The attenuators are pretty pointless because the signal will still be going through the Pioneer?

 

[ellisdj]

I dont see how that is possible if the analogue is going through the Analogue to Digital conversion in the pioneer, then back through the Pioneer Dac before output. In facts its impossible for it to be better if what we believe in how the receiver works is true

You are still hearing the Pioneer Dac only you have the A to D conversion in there as well which cant improve the sound quality only most likely to degrade it.

I know the Devialet is supposed to take an analogue signal then convert it to digital with no loss however thats a different engineering kettle of fish.

I am not telling you whats better, I have not heard your system - I know through experience of owning a Pioneer receiver and trying to get max peformance out of it. I was adverse at first to using coax and used the stereo analogue convinced it was better. But there is no way it could be because it was going through the pioneer dac the whole time so I was hearing that the whole time.

I was feeding the Pioneer with a Meridian 506.24 - an older player but one that would still show a lot of modern players a thing or 2 to a certain price point. Even from that the sound couldnt be better, I wish I had fed the pioneer coax when I owned that player as It would have made an awesome digital transport,

Maybe your blu ray player is not a very good digital transport after all?

I am not fan of the Chord Prodac TBH - but a lot of people will say all digital cables are the same

Or you need to adjust to the soudn without the A/D conversion in there. I think this is most likely - however if your preference is the other use that

 

[atkins4725]

I dont see how that is possible if the analogue is going through the Analogue to Digital conversion in the pioneer, then back through the Pioneer Dac before output. In facts its impossible for it to be better if what we believe in how the receiver works is true.

I was referring to when I had my Marantz AVR setup using the 751bd's analoges. The Marantz put a smile on my face, the Pioneer does not. However, the Pioneer is much much better for movies.

 

[ellisdj]

Thats why i went pre and power tbh at the time

However i have since heard the pioneer lx83 sound really good, i mean really good.

A lot is in the setup and quality of the digital transport feeding the receiver for music. JPlay was a game changer for me and still is thanks to a lot of upgrades to an.audio pc. Smashes any pre bought product you can buy anywhere near the same money