Issue with my Pioneer!

[atkins4725]

When I play music through my Pioneer via the it's multi channel inputs "loud" is displayed in red on the front panel? I've just read online this is because the incoming sound is distorting and the signal needs to be reduced.

Even at very low volumes it still shows up but It doesn't sound distorted even when the volume is up? Should I be concerned??

The source is my CA 751bd via it's analogue outputs.

Rick.

 

[grdunn123]

Why not just use HDMI?

 

[ellisdj]

Thats is because the analogue input signal is overloading the Analogue to Digital Conversion chip.

You can either do - on the LX83 remote you slid down the panel and pressed the number 4 button which is ATT. You will need to find this on the LX86 remote

That attenuates the Input and stops the overload disortion. You will need to turn the overall volume up much more.

Or better still wire into the receiver with a digital input - Coax will be best as this will sound better anyway as there is not an analogue to digital conversion happening.

Unless II have mis read what you mean - but from memory this is the right advice

I might have this confused - I cant remember if the LX83 flashed up loud or over in this situation

Unless you use the amp in pure direct then wiring into it any other way other than digital is probably counter productive.

If you are wiring into for music then you do not want to use the multichannel inputs - you want to use the stereo inputs.

Music over hdmi is not a good solution - Coax will be better

 

[atkins4725]

Thats is because the analogue input signal is overloading the Analogue to Digital Conversion chip.

You can either do - on the LX83 remote you slid down the panel and pressed the number 4 button which is ATT. You will need to find this on the LX86 remote

That attenuates the Input and stops the overload disortion. You will need to turn the overall volume up much more.

Or better still wire into the receiver with a digital input - Coax will be best as this will sound better anyway as there is not an analogue to digital conversion happening.

Unless II have mis read what you mean - but from memory this is the right advice

I might have this confused - I cant remember if the LX83 flashed up loud or over in this situation

Unless you use the amp in pure direct then wiring into it any other way other than digital is probably counter productive.

If you are wiring into for music then you do not want to use the multichannel inputs - you want to use the stereo inputs.

Music over hdmi is not a good solution - Coax will be better

Thanks for the reply,

The idea behind using the multi channel inputs is to get the purist signal. I was told by Andrew a while back that using the multi channel inputs on a receiver is purest path??

When PURE DIRECT is selected, you can still tinker about with all the sound settings unlike the MULTI CHANNEL INPUTS where you can't alter anything.

When using the stereo inputs on the receiver, music sounds terrible!

When I had my Marantz SR7005 in PURE DIRECT it sounded very nice indeed, unlike the Pioneer.

Rick

 

[grdunn123]

Music over HDMI should be as good as coax or optical.

 

[bigboss]

It makes no sense to me to use analogues when the superior HDMI option is available. For music, there's no reason why HDMI should be inferior to coaxial. With a bandwidth of 27.7Mbps for audio alone (as compared to coaxial's 1.5Mbps), it has far more "headroom" than coaxial. Also, HDMI supports the highest quality 192KHz / 24-bit audio. Forget what people have advised you in the past, why don't you compare HDMI vs analogues yourself?

 

[michael hoy]

Thats is because the analogue input signal is overloading the Analogue to Digital Conversion chip.

You can either do - on the LX83 remote you slid down the panel and pressed the number 4 button which is ATT. You will need to find this on the LX86 remote

That attenuates the Input and stops the overload disortion. You will need to turn the overall volume up much more.

This is correct, had to do this with my 85 feeding from a OPPO 95 via analogue.

 

[atkins4725]

Thats is because the analogue input signal is overloading the Analogue to Digital Conversion chip.

You can either do - on the LX83 remote you slid down the panel and pressed the number 4 button which is ATT. You will need to find this on the LX86 remote

That attenuates the Input and stops the overload disortion. You will need to turn the overall volume up much more.

This is correct, had to do this with my 85 feeding from a OPPO 95 via analogue.

I've the remote in front of me, can't see the ATT button?? Possibly stopped it on the 86??

Rick

 

[7760]

Thats is because the analogue input signal is overloading the Analogue to Digital Conversion chip.

This is correct, had to do this with my 85 feeding from a OPPO 95 via analogue.

I always thought using the multichannel inputs bypassed any AD conversion - is this in fact not so, or does it differ from unit to unit or manufacturer to manufacturer?

 

[atkins4725]

Thats is because the analogue input signal is overloading the Analogue to Digital Conversion chip.

This is correct, had to do this with my 85 feeding from a OPPO 95 via analogue.

I always thought using the multichannel inputs bypassed any AD conversion - is this in fact not so, or does it differ from unit to unit or manufacturer to manufacturer?

This was my thinking, this would then allow the 751bd to use its wolfson DACs.

 

[grdunn123]

It makes no sense to me to use analogues when the superior HDMI option is available. For music, there's no reason why HDMI should be inferior to coaxial. With a bandwidth of 27.7Mbps for audio alone (as compared to coaxial's 1.5Mbps), it has far more "headroom" than coaxial. Also, HDMI supports the highest quality 192KHz / 24-bit audio. Forget what people have advised you in the past, why don't you compare HDMI vs analogues yourself?

My thoughts exactly....OP should be doing a side by side comparison.

 

[ellisdj]

I am guessing you are getting the AD conversion hence the loud signal popping up even entering the multichannel in's

If you can select levels distance etc through the multi channel ins then its going through an A/D - convertor.

HDMI is extremely high jitter - hence why its has never been adopted for music playback by any company - coax is much better

I will say it again feeding analogue into a pioneer receiver will be doing more harm than good - if its going through the A/D then you are using the Pioneers DAC's which will be good - but that added conversion kills the sound and causes overload - this is probably why you thought your marantz was better - It probably had a better path through with less noise added.

I would feed in digital via coax and see if the loud signal is gone - it will probaly sound better as well

The ATT will be there - you just need to find out to turn it on

 

[ellisdj]

Right to clarify - Over flashs up in red when the analogue signal is too high not Loud - so I was wring there.

There are options for this on page 74 in the manaul - sorry if led you up the wrong path

 

[ellisdj]

also select source direct if you can or similar / was called source direct on the LX83 always sounded best

 

[atkins4725]

also select source direct if you can or similar / was called source direct on the LX83 always sounded best

It's pure direct on the 86, this is what I use when not using the MULTI CH INPUTS.

I've read the manual including page 74 a number of times, I see that it gives you an option to switch ATT on/off but it doesn't show you how to actually do it!? Unless I'm missing it?

Rick.

 

[atkins4725]

I would feed in digital via coax and see if the loud signal is gone - it will probaly sound better as well

The ATT will be there - you just need to find out to turn it on

The manual states the attenuator isn't available with digital sources.

 

[ellisdj]

you dont need it with a digital source as the A/D Chip will noit be used.

Is it OVER or LOUD that is flashing up?

Is there an option on the front panel on the actual receiver instead of the remote?

Page 60 on the manual says - Pure Direct - "Playback with only thee minimal amount of Digital Treatment"

There is no way of bypassing the A/D Conversion - so try the Cambridge Audio into the Pioneer via a Coax and see how it sounds - preferbaly a proper one, not an analogue cable

 

[atkins4725]

you dont need it with a digital source as the A/D Chip will noit be used.

Is it OVER or LOUD that is flashing up?

Is there an option on the front panel on the actual receiver instead of the remote?

Page 60 on the manual says - Pure Direct - "Playback with only thee minimal amount of Digital Treatment"

There is no way of bypassing the A/D Conversion - so try the Cambridge Audio into the Pioneer via a Coax and see how it sounds - preferbaly a proper one, not an analogue cable

My apologies, OVER is displayed, not LOUD.

Just spoke to Pioneer, when using the MULTI CH INPUTS, the internal DAC on the Pioneer is not used and no processing applied to the signal.

To get access to the ATT function, it's via a sub menu and the Pioneer needs to be in DIRECT mode not PURE DIRECT. (But then you can switch to pure direct)

Rick.

 

[ellisdj]

Pioneer technical help are not very (very friendly) - speaking to the chap there about issues he didnt know as much as me at the time

If OVER is flashing up - its going through AD processing simple as. I was right all along

Direct Mode turns on Mccac - so there will be processing, levelling, distances and sub engaged ???

Unless they have changed it since the 83 - which I doubt. Or the multi in skips this maybe?

You can turn ATT on which cuts the input but there is noway of knowing how much this affects the sound - as soon as I fed my LX83 a digital signal my CD playback at the time was transformed - however I used the sub for music playback. This may be different for you

I would still try both - the Pioneers are very good off their internal dacs - my cousin has a 83 still - fed off his JPlay based audio PC coax with a Graham Slee Lotus Coax Cable with Telerium Q Black Speaker Cable - Apex A10 and a BK XXLS400 sounds very good!!

 

[buzz_lightclick]

Isn't the whole idea of wiring into the multi channel analogue inputs on the Pioneer receiver is to use the DACs in the CA751 Blu ray player rather than the DACs of the Pioneer??

 

[ellisdj]

I think so - but the issue the op is having makes it seem like its going through an Analogue to digital conversion hence the OVER coming up.

He has been trying to work out why. Tha manual states even oure direct has some digital aspect to its playback which ads up when you think whats been happening

I have been advising he tries the pioneer via its digital inputs as well - the 83 is very good in this regards, would expect at least equal if not better from the 86.

I assume the analogue path through the reciever is shared with the digital for some part??

 

[atkins4725]

Isn't the whole idea of wiring into the multi channel analogue inputs on the Pioneer receiver is to use the DACs in the CA751 Blu ray player rather than the DACs of the Pioneer??

This is what I'm trying to accomplish. It's more for 2 channel stereo via the CA 751bd's dedicated 2 channel outputs.

Rick

 

[atkins4725]

I have been advising he tries the pioneer via its digital inputs as well - the 83 is very good in this regards, would expect at least equal if not better from the 86.

I've yet to try the Pioneer via the COAX but I will as soon as I get some peace from the kid. The whole point of me buying the 751 was to have very good two channel in the same box as a BDP.

I know the 751 is capable of excellent stereo.

Rick.

 

[buzz_lightclick]

Isn't the whole idea of wiring into the multi channel analogue inputs on the Pioneer receiver is to use the DACs in the CA751 Blu ray player rather than the DACs of the Pioneer??

This is what I'm trying to accomplish. It's more for 2 channel stereo via the CA 751bd's dedicated 2 channel outputs.

Rick

I am able to do exactly that with my Oppo 95 and Pioneer LX83. Got analogue stereo connections hooked up so I can use the superior DACs of the Oppo for 2 channel stereo music. For everything else I use HDMI and the processing of the LX83.

 

[ellisdj]

If you wire into the 83 via stereo and use any other setting than pure direct you are actually using the dac in the pioneer.not.the oppo.

Basically its converted to digital first so leveling eq etc can be applied ( even if turned off) then.back to analogue.again

I.made this mistake for a long time.before i realised and changed it

Dont underestimate the importance of the quality of a digital transport so your money is.not wasted with the souece but if.you are doing.as.above your making the sound worse not better i promise you. You are also not using it how you think you are

In pure direct the A/D conversion is by passed on the 83 but then so is the sub which is useless with a sub satellite setup.

Using direct mode so sub enabled with source direct enabled - done on front console feeding digital in via coax with the best source possible - eq standing wave, full band phase etc all turned off will sound best in.99% of cases with decent sub setup, speaker placement and room acoustics