IS GOOD QUALITY AUDIO TIMELESS OR NOT??
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Yes. Form is temporary, class is permanent.
Older Naim gear still command decent prices in the used market, as do original classics from the likes of Sugden and Rogers.
Older Naim gear still command decent prices in the used market, as do original classics from the likes of Sugden and Rogers.
. . . Comming from the 70' & 80's hifi kit of that time has something about its presentation that is hard to capture in modern hifi equipment. True, information retreval these days is amazing . . . but so often as a cold, soulless presentation . . . my personal opinion.
However, having been away from the sceen for almost 20 years and recently re-kindling a strong interest, the desire was for the presentation of yesteryear . . . I looked at old equipment, decided in terms of practicality and reliability, maintenance was a potential problem, also the factor of what people thought this old gear was worth! . . . not too me.
I built the vinyl side from new, it being possible to step back in time, nothing much has changed, the modern Croft amplifier I chose had an air of the good old days, Glenn Croft cut his teeth in those good old days. Cables, both interconects and speaker are firmly of the time, as are the studio monitor type speakers I favour.
I ignored digital streaming and CD's . . . simply using them as a convenience as and when . . . The big change has come about over the past 4 or 5 months, first, retip an old style MC cartridge, this led to a new tone arm that is pure analogue in time and concept. I then upgraded the amplifier, an all valve afair using KT88 that were common and reveared in the 70's-80's and before I believe?
The spin off for me, valves have put a sound presentation in to CD and digital streaming that, for me, has shades of the 80's sound that I enjoy in my analogue listening . . . not the same, but a resemblance close enough in sound that has set me trawling through my CD collection looking for the well recorded discuss, most enjoyable they are too.
So I rephrase the question . . . "good quality audio is timeless, it can be reproduced using modern, carfully chosen equipment" . . . IMHO
CJSF
However, having been away from the sceen for almost 20 years and recently re-kindling a strong interest, the desire was for the presentation of yesteryear . . . I looked at old equipment, decided in terms of practicality and reliability, maintenance was a potential problem, also the factor of what people thought this old gear was worth! . . . not too me.
I built the vinyl side from new, it being possible to step back in time, nothing much has changed, the modern Croft amplifier I chose had an air of the good old days, Glenn Croft cut his teeth in those good old days. Cables, both interconects and speaker are firmly of the time, as are the studio monitor type speakers I favour.
I ignored digital streaming and CD's . . . simply using them as a convenience as and when . . . The big change has come about over the past 4 or 5 months, first, retip an old style MC cartridge, this led to a new tone arm that is pure analogue in time and concept. I then upgraded the amplifier, an all valve afair using KT88 that were common and reveared in the 70's-80's and before I believe?
The spin off for me, valves have put a sound presentation in to CD and digital streaming that, for me, has shades of the 80's sound that I enjoy in my analogue listening . . . not the same, but a resemblance close enough in sound that has set me trawling through my CD collection looking for the well recorded discuss, most enjoyable they are too.
So I rephrase the question . . . "good quality audio is timeless, it can be reproduced using modern, carfully chosen equipment" . . . IMHO
CJSF
plastic penguin
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CJSF said:
You can't tar all modern equipment with the same brush. Some modern stuff can be hard and clinical sounding, while others retain a level of realism or natural sound.
Yes, nothing has effectively changed in the past 50 years, so with in reason you could use a speaker from the 50's with a turntable from the 60s with an amp from the 70s, then a CDP from the 80s/90s and a streamer from the past few years and it would all WORK together.
People still regularly use older stuff like 60's TT/Arms like the Garrard 301 and 401, Technics SP10 from the 70s for example that are potentially, as good if not better than current kit.
There are quite a few valve amps like the Radford STA-12 and STA-15, Quad II for example that are still considered to be top notch. But you get stuff like the Rogers Cadet that are considered to be still quite good (and great value) but valves for it are becomming very hard to find.
Vintage/classic speakers, Tannoy Golds, Goodmans Axiom and Lowther units are still considered to be some of the best of their type.
I do think good quality kit is timeless, it may need a service though. There are a lot of stuff that is very good and very good value these days.
People still regularly use older stuff like 60's TT/Arms like the Garrard 301 and 401, Technics SP10 from the 70s for example that are potentially, as good if not better than current kit.
There are quite a few valve amps like the Radford STA-12 and STA-15, Quad II for example that are still considered to be top notch. But you get stuff like the Rogers Cadet that are considered to be still quite good (and great value) but valves for it are becomming very hard to find.
Vintage/classic speakers, Tannoy Golds, Goodmans Axiom and Lowther units are still considered to be some of the best of their type.
I do think good quality kit is timeless, it may need a service though. There are a lot of stuff that is very good and very good value these days.
Singslinger said:
There ia a reason why Naim gear commands such a high second hand price.
Naim is of course high quality, but because it is manufactured in the UK they will service their equipment including recapping making it almost as good as new. Even Amps 30 years old will be serviced, how many other manufacturres will do that " sorry sir its obselete " is often the answer you get in this throwaway society.
I'm sure other quality British companys will offer the same service..............
Yes indeed, that is why quality always sells and commands high second hand prices...................
Of course 'good quality audio' isn't timeless . . .
It's the music that is 'timeless' . . .
Audio entertainment in the home, what is generally now called 'HiFi', is a consumer commodity based on the format of popular pre-recorded material, and has always been so, and will continue as a 'consumer' medium.
Popular recording formats have changed regularly over the years, and the necessary replay equipment changes with the format, and eventually becomes 'legacy' or obsolete.
First came acoustic records and wind-up gramophones. They lasted about twenty five years till about 1925.
Then came 'electrical' records (still 78s) they lasted about 30 years till about 1955, and 'radio-grams'.
Then came vinyl records (45s and LPs), they lasted about 30 years till 1985, and were used with special 'microgroove' turntables.
Then came Digital Compact Disc, which lasted about 25 years till 2010 and used dedicated 'CD Players' (awful things).
In between that lot were a couple of magnetic tape based systems, such as 'Music-Cassettes', with dedicated players.
Then came 'Downloads' which made CD players useless, and obsolete, and computers became the mainstream music source.
Very recently, 'Digital Streaming' gained popularity, and modified 'wireless' distribution and playback systems are the 'norm'
Nothing much has proved 'timeless', or lasted for more than about 25 or 30 years, until something better and more preferable to the consumers has taken over and superceded the 'old' equipment.
It's the music itself, which is 'timeless', - the equipment is simply the means of the day, on which the available formats are re-produced.
JC.
It's the music that is 'timeless' . . .
Audio entertainment in the home, what is generally now called 'HiFi', is a consumer commodity based on the format of popular pre-recorded material, and has always been so, and will continue as a 'consumer' medium.
Popular recording formats have changed regularly over the years, and the necessary replay equipment changes with the format, and eventually becomes 'legacy' or obsolete.
First came acoustic records and wind-up gramophones. They lasted about twenty five years till about 1925.
Then came 'electrical' records (still 78s) they lasted about 30 years till about 1955, and 'radio-grams'.
Then came vinyl records (45s and LPs), they lasted about 30 years till 1985, and were used with special 'microgroove' turntables.
Then came Digital Compact Disc, which lasted about 25 years till 2010 and used dedicated 'CD Players' (awful things).
In between that lot were a couple of magnetic tape based systems, such as 'Music-Cassettes', with dedicated players.
Then came 'Downloads' which made CD players useless, and obsolete, and computers became the mainstream music source.
Very recently, 'Digital Streaming' gained popularity, and modified 'wireless' distribution and playback systems are the 'norm'
Nothing much has proved 'timeless', or lasted for more than about 25 or 30 years, until something better and more preferable to the consumers has taken over and superceded the 'old' equipment.
It's the music itself, which is 'timeless', - the equipment is simply the means of the day, on which the available formats are re-produced.
JC.
jcbrum said:
Sadly its the mediums that are suspect, like most things in life, something gets to a point where it is so enjoyable, then some numpty says . . . "I can re-invent the wheel" from there on in, itsdown hill all the way, not very comfortable on a square wheel?
Being of the 60's, 70's and 80's, I have witnessed the process, better from 60 to 70 and again into the 80's. From there on in its been pile em high sell em cheap???? well not to cheap, the manufacturers want to live in the style they had become used to. Use a bit of smoke and mirrors, do some wool pulling over eyes, pull a few stings, grease a palm or three, and we find ourselves with a bright, soulless presentation that all the youngsters think is wonderfull . . . :?
Is good quality audio timeless . . . how about, "has the modern public actualy heard that timeless audio, do they realy care"?
My cynical and personal view . . . . . . Did I say the mediums are suspect, modern music is so poor, manufactured, computerised, tallentless? . . . I now retire to a quiet corner and watch the fireworks . . .
CJSF
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CJSF said:jcbrum said:
Sadly its the mediums that are suspect, like most things in life, something gets to a point where it is so enjoyable, then some numpty says . . . "I can re-invent the wheel" from there on in, itsdown hill all the way, not very comfortable on a square wheel?
Being of the 60's, 70's and 80's, I have witnessed the process, better from 60 to 70 and again into the 80's. From there on in its been pile em high sell em cheap???? well not to cheap, the manufacturers want to live in the style they had become used to. Use a bit of smoke and mirrors, do some wool pulling over eyes, pull a few stings, grease a palm or three, and we find ourselves with a bright, soulless presentation that all the youngsters think is wonderfull . . . :?
Is good quality audio timeless . . . how about, "has the modern public actualy heard that timeless audio, do they realy care"?
My cynical and personal view . . . . . . Did I say the mediums are suspect, modern music is so poor, manufactured, computerised, tallentless? . . . I now retire to a quiet corner and watch the fireworks . . .
CJSF
Unfortunately there is far too much truth in what you say
I disagree slightly about modern music because there are plenty of talented youngsters that do put their heart and soul into the music they create , the trouble is you have to actively search them out because the mainstream music industry totally ignores true talent in favour of short term profitability .
It is the modern way , short term profit comes before people and at any cost regardless of the long term damage it causes
.At age 52 now, I too grew up in the 60s onwards so naturally to me, music from my youth is timeless while a lot of modern music is to me unlistenable. Well, maybe not completely so but I wouldn't plonk down my money for a lot of what kids today are listening to.
But that's just it - I'm guilty of thnking my era was the best whereas the young of today would completely disagree. My 15-year old nephew thinks stuff from the 60s is OK but he much prefers his music and no matter how much I try to tell him that the roots of what he's into comes from Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, Cream or from the earlier bluesmen and soul singers of the 50s, he remained unmoved. To him, the present generation's music is timeless.
But that's just it - I'm guilty of thnking my era was the best whereas the young of today would completely disagree. My 15-year old nephew thinks stuff from the 60s is OK but he much prefers his music and no matter how much I try to tell him that the roots of what he's into comes from Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, Cream or from the earlier bluesmen and soul singers of the 50s, he remained unmoved. To him, the present generation's music is timeless.
A good Sony turntable from the 70s is better than most of the better turntables available today. And who says sony can say Pioneer, JVC, Denon, Kenwood or Technics.
Most great Japanese vintage amps from the 70's can still sound great nowadays, but after 35 years, chances are they will need a good deal of TLC...Try to get a class-A Yamaha or an old Marantz or Sansui.
Most great Japanese vintage amps from the 70's can still sound great nowadays, but after 35 years, chances are they will need a good deal of TLC...Try to get a class-A Yamaha or an old Marantz or Sansui.
An apposite quote (I think), from Douglas Adams:
“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”
“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”
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