Interconnect for CM740C?

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Anonymous

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hey damo, im pretty happy with my CHORD crimson interconnects between my Cambridge 640c and 640a. $100, south melbourne clef audio, although i think i got ripped of, so you could get it cheaper if you try. Hey can you recommend me some speaker cable? Im using a pair of QUAD 11Ls? Thanks.
 
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Anonymous

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Hi, I ended up getting Van Den Hul's 'The Thunderline' at $259 (connecting my 740C to my amp) along with VDH 'Tea Track' biwire speaker cable. It all sounds great here and was well worth the money. I'd suggest trying anything before you buy because I'm not familiar with Quad speakers.
I was going to get 'The Source' but decided I'd spent so much on everything else I may as well push the boat out a bit - and its worth it.
I avoided Chord for my stuff as I have Monitor Audio speakers which are notoriously bright as are apparentl Chord cables. I also went with VDH as on an explanation of my kit - two separate dealers and the distibutor recommended the same speaker cable without prompting - plus they are very reasonably priced in Australia, unlike QED for example who seem to think no-one in Australia reads magazines and realises that they charge over double for the same stuff here as in the UK!
You can buy VDH (or check prices against your local outlet) direct from the distributor Duratone in Canberra. They're very helpful too if you need advice. Hope this helps.
 
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Anonymous

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oldphrt:
I have some bad news for you. Unless the ones you have are faulty in some way there will be no difference to the sound quality. Use the ones that come with the equipment, they will work fine.

Rubbish.

You've clearly never heard a system with decent cables.

Changing to the cables listed above has opened up the sound of my system completely.
 

hifikrazy

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I'm afraid I can't agree to this. Call me a hallucinator, but I clearly hear differences between interconnects, and even mains leads.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="oldphrt"]
You've clearly never heard a system with decent cables.

I have, and years of experiment and knowledge of physics and electronics lead me to the conclusion that as long as an interconnect is reasonably made the sound definitely cannot possibly be improved by putting lettering on the outside of it. That is really all you are paying for with an expensive interconnect. With speakers you need thick multistranded copper cable, as thick as possible.This can also be achieved by using multiple legths of thinner cables. That will equal the best speaker cables on the market irrespective of price.

Changing to the cables listed above has opened up the sound of my system completely.

Try putting your cheap interconnects back on (or, in the interest of good science get someone else to do it when you aren't expecting it). I guarantee you won't notice any difference. It's the speaker cables that make the big difference that you heard (probably because your previous ones were not thick enough).

[/quote]
I respect your opinion but can't possibly agree with it.
In this instance you're wrong on both counts - prior to upgrading the speaker cables, I had stranded copper cables which were actually slightly thicker than what I have now and I could clearly hear a massive difference though of course I dont discount the fact that I went from single runs to a bi-amp configuration.
On the interconnect - I swapped in the i/c first and did the speaker cables the next day and both the i/c and the speaker cables both made a difference.
I listened to several different i/c's in the shop before deciding on my eventual choice and there were clear differences between all of them - hence why I was prepared to pay so much for them.
Explain to me why you think that speaker cables can have such a profound impact on a system yet interconnects dont? Same principle, same science.
In previous systems as well as this one I've heard incremental improvements in all of the following minor upgrade paths - cables (speaker and i/c), speaker stands, good hifi rack, mains isolators, blu-tac (strangely enough)
I dont mean to be rude here but it never ceases to amaze me how many people turn up on forums like this who claim to have 'electronic' experience or knowledge of physics who then rubbish the notion of cables improving a system - its just total tosh. I studied electronic engineering at Uni way back and have had a healthy interest in all things electronic and to be fair, people who have these opinions are either deaf, have no idea what they are talking about or are just provoking a nonsensical argument as they've nothing better to do but hey if you're happy with what came out of the box I don't really understand why you buy HiFi at all - surely CD players are just CD players and amps just amplify right?
 

Thaiman

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[quote user="Damien Buckley"]I dont mean to be rude here but it never ceases to amaze me how many people turn up on forums like this who claim to have 'electronic' experience or knowledge of physics who then rubbish the notion of cables improving a system - its just total tosh.[/quote]

Hi my Ausie friend, don't take it personally mate....the end of the day you paid the cash, you like the sound and you are a happy man. You are at the bigining of Hifi journey and you could either stick to what you read, what people have told you from the begining and be happy forever after or you could try to see Why some people out there are doing it differently ie I went to a big hifi party 2 weeks ago the gears were some of the finest in Hifi world. Why most of these guys are turning up with £4,000 cd player or a pair of £10,000 pair of speakers with a black freebie power cables and £6 worth of interconnect!??? They certainly can afford the most expensive leads in the world if they wanted to (I guess most of them properbly did at some point).

I know it doesn't prove anything to you about cables and after all it's only what I am telling you which I could be full of bull ***! (I don't know what I would be gaining for telling lies though)
I am using Cardas at the moment and it cost me quite a bit so no, I am not anti cables by any mean, my mind just free from them that's all.
 
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Anonymous

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Just to add my experience here...

I have been sceptical about cables and interconnects, so after reading Damiens post I spent some time talking to people and reading. Then I went into a local hifi dealer and LISTENED to two cables.

Simple as that - just went and actually listened! Christ! Crazy fool!

And do you know what??!! Go on guess....!!!

Yes, there was an enormous difference. The difference was staggering. And no - I didn't know which cable was which.

It was so striking I went and grabbed the missus and she listened too - also hearing the difference.

So either:

1) Cables do make a difference

2) For some reason I fooled myself (so did the wife) so I can spend some more money

3) I dunno - I'm just making the whole thing up.

Make your own minds up. If it matters. Which it probably doesn't.

Thats just my experience - pages of Laplace transforms might or might not prove anything. Just because I don't understand why, doesn't mean I refuse to belive my ears. But I find it hard to believe people wouldn't here what we heard. I guess, like Thaiman says, go with what sounds good to you.

This is always a good debate though! Carry on!
 

Thaiman

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[quote user="bloney"]But I find it hard to believe people wouldn't here what we heard.[/quote]
and other people will find it impossible to understand that you can hear the different! It will never end and no one will ever get to the bottom of it, If you want to know more you have to experience it by yourself, from both side of argument
[quote user="bloney"]
This is always a good debate though! Carry on!
[/quote]
I think you are the only one mate! (smile icon here)
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Maybe I'm the only one, but hey - we're only here 'cos we want to be! We only post if we want to. Don't we?! Nothing wrong with heated debate, so long as we all remember we're here for enjoyment of a common interest in hifi.

I don't suppose either side of the argument will change the minds of the other side - but what I was encouraged to do through debate like this was to go and listen to stuff myself and then I found MY answer for MY ears. Went into a shop being a cynic and came out a believer. Even more astonishing is my wife did too! It was such an eye opener, I sincerely don't know why there's any doubt about it.

Value for money, however, is another kettle of fish altogether...

Carry on, it's all good fun - keep it in persective chaps!
 
A

Anonymous

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[quote user="oldphrt"]
Speaker cables make a difference purely because the impedance vary from one cable to another. A very low series impedance (the lower the better) is critical to preserve the damping factor that allows the speaker to be tightly controlled by the amplifier.

Ordinary screened wire interconnects don't make a difference because they can't. There is nothing in a 1 metre length of wire that can alter the sound.
[/quote]
Do these two statements seem contradictory. Seems you're suggesting that speaker cables can indeed offer an improvement but not an interconnect - just seems an odd argument to me.
I suppose the materials used and level of purity of said materials don't affect the electron flow in any way, shape or form or that improved shielding makes no difference either? You might want to read this or this.
Just so we're clear - no one here is suggesting that the cables alter the sound itself - just that they improve the signal path.
Furthermore, I'm not discussing spending thousands either - just enough to get a satisfactory improvement over the out of the box cables (if there were any). I don't like to see people ripped off and dont recommend or believe in spending a fortune on cables. As with all HiFi kit, it's a matter of diminishing returns. Spending a bit more than the mass market one box solutions will I believe offer a significant improvement. Spending a huge amount more than this will provide only marginal returns. The same is likely true of cables.
If you've got unlimited cash and want absolutely the best, ok go for it. If not, get the best you can afford or you'll be restricting the otherwise great performance of the system you've already invested in.
Prior to upgrading my speaker cables I was seriously starting to worry that I'd bought the wrong speakers - not the case, simply that the thicker, copper stranded cable you earlier suggested would be better, was not allowing the signal to pass as well as the new cables or indeed as you correctly point out, to let the amplifier control the speakers as well.
Otherwise, I guess I'm just imagining the improved soundstage, clarity of treble, massively improved midrange and much lower, cleaner, faster bass.
Maybe its time to open your mind, let go of the tech and go hear the difference for yourself? Fifteen years ago i may have agreed with you - but that was before I'd heard the impact of quality accessories in several systems.
 

Thaiman

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[quote user="bloney"]
Carry on, it's all good fun - keep it in persective chaps!
[/quote]
This is new to you then??? I had it for most of my hobby and it become boring!

Bloney, you are seem like a open minded guy, have you ever look in to ABX test? You will need three pair of different cables though. If you can be honest to yourself after a "proper" test then you may tell the whole world about "cables make anydifferent, or not!"
 
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Anonymous

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No Thaiman - this is starting to get not just boring, but the arrogant tone of many of the posts here is starting ot grate. Thaiman, I always listened to and respected your views and opinions, you seem like a good bloke - but you're laying down the conditions under which I may voice my experience??!!

Get real, man!

I have posted about my experiences, because I thought it was appropriate.

Yup, this has got boring and a wee bit personal, so I'm ducking out of this one.
 

Thaiman

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[quote user="bloney"]

No Thaiman - this is starting to get not just boring, but the arrogant tone of many of the posts here is starting ot grate. Thaiman, I always listened to and respected your views and opinions, you seem like a good bloke - but you're laying down the conditions under which I may voice my experience??!!

Get real, man!

I have posted about my experiences, because I thought it was appropriate.

Yup, this has got boring and a wee bit personal, so I'm ducking out of this one.
[/quote]

Where did I said that I was questioning your hearing????
I did said in the other thread that I am happy for you with your purchase. I read my above post over again just now and all I said was for you to do an ABX test if you want to get to the bottom of it!!
The test was introduced with that purpose in mind and for your record, I have did the test twice I CAN PICKED OUT THE EXPENSIVE INTERCONNECT CABLES (100% SILVER) FROM COPPERS CABLES everytime!!! Is that what are you try to tell us all along?? that you can hear different in cables! well me too....but I found out in a more professional way hence Why I asked you to do it! as you were wondering about it all a week or two ago. So for you to tell me "Get real, man!" my answer is "I am for real, I go out of my way to find out the truth, many cables, many hifi in many ranges....Have you done all that? but I am sure you know more than me by reading!

For the record, I could not hear any different in power cables at all but it could be that my amp's transformer doesn't need any help from elsewhere.
 
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Anonymous

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Chaps,chaps,lets calm down here,remember it's just a piece of copper,or silver plated etc,no ones life is in danger,and at the end of the day it's not important,some people believe they do make a difference,some don't,it will go on forever,there is NO ANSWER to the problem..
 

Thaiman

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I never make it personal! you can read all my posts (apart from Biwire thread with anton which end up well) but when someone tell me to "get a life" for no good reason, well that is a bit off! specialy when I try to help.
 
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Anonymous

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Hey, Thaiman, sorry if I got the *** the other day here.

I took your comments to mean that my experience (of listening, not reading I might add) was not valid enough to air here ('do the abx test and then you may tell the world...' or something), but I'll try and read it another way! I can be a miserable sod sometimes, I really can.

I haven't done a 'proper' ABX test - just an informal blind test in the dealers and could clearly hear a significant difference - that was good enough for me. And more imprtantly - good enough for the missus! I don't profess to know more than you - relax!

I have never listened to an 'audiophile' mains cable, but I'll have to admit that my (ignorant) guess would be that I'd not hear a difference. The thing with the power cables I don't understand is that if noise was getting through the amp (or whatever) power supply, wouldn't you just hear noise (interferance) with no music playing? I dunno - maybe I'll try one day?!

I've learnt a lot from this forum and I'm not genuinly in the know (rather than technobabble) to offer much help, so my genuine and honest experience is all I can offer in return!

Take it easy and 'keep it real' (calm down - Ali G)

bloney
 

hifikrazy

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[quote user="bloney"]
...I found MY answer for MY ears. Went into a shop being a cynic and came out a believer. Even more astonishing is my wife did too! It was such an eye opener, I sincerely don't know why there's any doubt about it.

[/quote]

Better don't let oldphrt hear this. He would surely come up with some reason to dispute how you became a believer even with sceptical ears. By any chance, was that salesman's first name Jesus?

Shame on you and your wife for being such naive adults with minds that are unable to form your own opinions!
 

hifikrazy

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[quote user="oldphrt"]
Just bear in mind that your ears might be deceiving you.
[/quote]

Darn, those ears of yours are gettting too clever for their own good, Bloney. You might want to get yourself a new pair.
 
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Anonymous

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Yup, my darned ears have cost me a small fortune in the last few weeks!

I really did find the whole thing amazing though - i really went into the dealers a complete skeptic. I didn't believe I'd hear a difference. But I did and it wasn't subtle either.

I do suspect the salesman had some kind of 'distortion' box he switched on sneakily behind the amp, while swapping cables over..!

Oh - I didn't know which of the cables was the expensive one either!
 

hifikrazy

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You know why I'm so sure about differences between interconnects and can't buy into oldphrt's theories? Because they're the easiest to compare. Mains cables and speaker cables require me to switch off the equipment and switch between cables, thereby causing a few minutes to lapse and possibly forgetting how the first cable sounded. However, I have two analogue outputs on my CD player which I connect to two inputs on my amp, thereby making it very easy for me to switch instantly between one interconnect and the other.

And the differences are so obvious when you flick that switch on your amp that I think one must be deaf not to be able to hear them. Either that or the power of the mind is so strong to refuse your ears to hear those differences.

Yeah yeah, the sceptics will again come up with theories about how there might be differences between those CD player outputs, or how the two inputs on my amp may be routed differently, or perhaps how having two cables connected at the same time is causing interference to the signal.
 

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