integrated amplifier: vintage or new?

[pixelandsoda]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and also relatively new to the hifi subject, therefore I will need your help in customising my hifi components.

I have recently bought a second hand turntable Rotel RP-855 with audio technica cartidge and now facing a touch decision of choosing the right amplifier with a decent phono stage. Shall I go vintage or rather buy a current budget one? I have a few favourites such as NAD 3020 or Rotel RA-830 AX, but some new amplifiers look and presumably sounds very promissing e.g. Denon PMA520AE. My budget for the amplifier is £120 max, but I wouldn't mind buing something good and cheaper.

Thanks in advance for your advice!

 

[Al ears]

Personally I'd stick with newer amps if only for the warranty. The Denon has a good reputation.

Obviously make sure they actually have a phono stage built in as quite a few newer amps are doing away with them.

 

[KidKomet]

Personally, I would venture down the S/H route with that budget. Just be very careful that what you buy has been well looked after. As far as what sort of amps you can get, you've pretty much nailed it with the likes of the older NAD & Rotels although I'm others will come along with other suggestions like Pioneer's A-400, Arcam's Alpha 7 or 8 etc. For what it's worth, I recently saw a Rega Mira go for about £130 S/H.

 

[Peter Kudelstaart]

The Denon PMA520ae you mentioned is a good amp, but because of its limited power your choice of speakers is limited. Do you aleady have speakers?

 

[pixelandsoda]

I don't have speakers yet, but considering Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 or Q Acoustics 2010i in price range up to £100

Thanks,

 

[Peter Kudelstaart]

Both speakers have a relatively low sensitivity at 86db. When you play your music at moderate levels these speakers would benefit from a more powerful amp than the Denon PMA520 ae. I have had a similar amp, the Marantz PM6004 in combination with B&W 686's (which have an even lower sensitivity). This combination sounded ok. Later on I switched the 6004 for a 7003 and the improvement was quite impressive. Should you go for the Denon I would look for speakers with a higher sensitivity. If you are set on either speaker try to demo them in combination with the Denon as specs aren't everything.

 

[rainsoothe]

hi

careful when partnering speakers with amp - some speakers have more pronounced highs and partner better warmo sounding amps and viceversa. With that in mind, the Denon is a warm amp, a Marantz is a bit warm and soft, and Rotels have more bite. So partnering the Q acoustics with Denon might not be such a good idea - they might work better with Rotels, Cambridge Audio maybe NAD (although NADs are warm too).

If you could stretch your budget a little bit, you could perhaps find a second hand or ex-dem pair of Dali Zensor 1 (some guy is selling a pair of these for a good price right now) and partner them with a Marantz PM5004 (or 5005 if you can find one for the same ammount of money).

Try visiting a dealer, since they often offer deals on stuff that's been sitting in the shop, especially if it's older variants of current models and they're trying to get rid of it. You can't go wrong with the combo i suggested above. Oh, and the Dalis should partner the Denon just fine as well.

Try to audition if you can though. For newer amps (even if you find them SH), I would shortlist the Denon pma520ae (even the pma720ae - keep your eyes peeled, there are always deals to be found), Marantz pm5004(or5005, or even6004 if you can find a good deal), NAD C316BEE.

As for speakers, I would add the Dali Zensor 1 to the ones you just mentioned. If you can find a pair ex-dem or sh, buy with confidence and thank me later (half joking, you should audition if you can, but they're really really good). The Q acoustics and the Warfedale you mentioned are also good speakers, which would partner older sh Rotels and the Pioneer A400 just fine - they should work better with brighter sounding electronics then the Dalis.

 

[Tannoyed]

Hello

If you buy an old amp don't make it too old. The electrolytic capacitors dry out progressively with time particularly small ones positioned near hot things like wirewound resistors or heatsinks. Surface mount ones are the worst. These capacitors require an electolytic process to maintain the oxide layer between the two aluminium 'plates'. The metal can consists of two spiral 'plates and the whole thing is filled with a liquid. This is retained by a rubber bung in the end so even in the 21st century they are crude to say the least, but you get a lot of microfarads in a small package. Underuse causes the oxide thickness to reduce and reduces the voltage rating. Overuse for cap in hot positions accelerates the drying process and you end up with reduced capacitance and increased effective series resistance. The first sign of trouble is intermittent faults at start up which improve as the equipment warms up.

These things are easy to replace for anyone who can solder but there are a great many of them.

To answer your question.. Buy a second hand amp by all means but make sure it is only a few years old.

rgds

Jeremy

 

[Al ears]

As stated by the OP he is also relatively new to the hifi subject.

Bearing that in mind, and assuming he is not an electronics expert by trade, suggesting he buys second-hand is a bit like asking him to walk across a minefield.

Still, it maybe a way to learn about hifi, albeit an expensive one in the long run.

 

[Tannoyed]

Second hand would be fine for anyone-just make sure it isn't too old. If it's just a few years the rot will not have set in. Check the pots (bal, bass treble etc to see if they are scratchy (smokers do a lot of damage here!). If the case is in good nick and it works you've probably got a bargain. My old JVC Amp was only retired this year (35 years old!) but the caps were oozing all over the place! I think it was past its best long before then. Discrete components were the order of the day in 1979 but I think there was a pair of pre-amp chips.

 

[pixelandsoda]

I have to admit it's a lot of information to absorb, but thanks for any advice given so far. I will have to narrow my search otherwise I might have drowned in the vast field of hifi.

Is there anything else in terms of the speakers you could recommend? I've checked Dalis and they are brillant, but slightly above my price range.

Thanks

 

[slice]

The denon 720 is only £150 at richer sounds and is a bit more powerful than the 520. They also have tannoy mercury speakers at £80 (but the same sensitivity as the 9.1s), which would balance the higher 720 price, though in fairness I own neither of these items.

 

[pixelandsoda]

What do you guys think about Denon PMA 250?

Thanks

 

[jimmy1]

the denon pma 720ae is a good solid amp seems more powerful than the specs

 

[jimmy1]

the denon pma 720ae is a good solid amp seems more powerful than the specs

 

[ReValveiT]

Get the Denon 520 or 720 if you can stretch the budget a tad.

Then get the Wharfedale 9.1's.

 

[pixelandsoda]

Thank you for all your advice; I ended up buying Rotel turntable RP-855, Rotel RA-810A integrated amplifier and Tannoy Mercury MX2 speakers.

I'm really happy with the set up, but most importantly the sound quality is stunning and exceed my expectation especially considering the budged I had.

The only disadvantage I have experienced so far is the headphone input in the amplifier that does not disconnect the sound from the speakers automatically. In order to listen with the headphones I have to disconnect speakers from the amplifier manually. Is it a matter of the age of the equipment or a just a faulty connector?

Thanks,

 

[rainsoothe]

no, i think that's how that rotel works: http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/rotel/ra-810a.shtml

on later models they use a switch in order to turn the speakers off, but the headphones are always on and you can keep them plugged in. It is a bit silly though, I'll have to agree.