Integrated amp update for Bowers Wilkins 685

[GustavAP]

Hello

I’m thinking about buying a new integrated amplifier, and I put this question out here on the forum since I have a humble wish that the vast pool of experiences in this forum might point me in the right direction.

My current setup looks like this:

Integrated amp: Nad c316bee

Speakers: B&W 685 (not S2)

DAC: Henry Audio MK1

Phono stage: NAD PP2i

Turntable: Lenco B52

Headphones: Grado SR60e & Shure SRH840

I few years back I bought the NAD amp when my old HK integrated broke down, and I bought the NAD because it was affordable and my budget was quite restrained at the time as well as I thought it to be sufficient for the type of music as well as the type of files, I listened mainly on mp3 streams (Spotify and public service radio online).

The situation has now changed a bit. I have started to listen more to more demanding (mainly in high res, 24/96) music and I can hear that the NAD is struggling, and more importantly my budget has widened. I listen to a variety of musical styles, but mainly jazz and classical (at least those are the genres that I listen to most attentively).

So, what would be the possible updates in terms of integrated while keeping the speakers? I do not have to keep the DAC or phono stage, but I would not want to downgrade. Headphone jack would be preferred (and if not, please include suggestions of a reasonable headphone amp)

Some suggestions including budget (Budget, 800 Pounds, 9-10000 SEK)

(A more powerful NAD-model)

Cambridge CXA60

Marantz PM7005

Arcam FJM19

Rega Brio R

Quad Vena? (On sale)

Quad Elite INT (On sale)

Others?

I could also go for something used, however the second hand market in Sweden is not that big in this ranger of amplifier.

As I live in Sweden it is impossible to demo many alternatives in the same store. The general agent for NAD, Cambridge and Denon is also the store that sells these brands and nothing else. And the others manufactures are all sold in the city but in different stores. So I have a theoretical possibility of taking amps home with me or taking my speakers to the different stores, but I would be so thankful if you want to steer my away from any model or highlight a couple of them.

Thanks in advance!

 

[james_LR90]

You seem to have a good list going but you really should also be seriously considering an NVA AP50. A headphone socket can be added for a small extra cost. The AP50 comes in under budget at £650. I've had the smaller integrated amp the AP20 and it was a brilliant and musical piece of kit.

 

[BigH]

How about Abrahamsen v2.0 up, they are Swedish? About £600 over here.

 

[dap33]

plus one for the Abrahamsen v2.0 up i have one myself powering some kef r500 *biggrin*

 

[Reijer]

If I were you I would take my speakers to the shop and demo with what is available. I use a TEAC AI-501DA. It sounds great to me. Lots of detail and enough power and bass at only 35 Watts. Better that NAD and Rotel to my ears.

 

[Electro]

plus one for the Abrahamsen v2.0 up i have one myself powering some kef r500 *biggrin*

Plus another for the Abrahamsen V2.0 UP.

They were designed in Norway but are manufactured in Sweden, you should get free shipping too.*good*

They are built like a battleship and designed by audio legend Per Abrahamsen ( one of the original founders of Electrocompaniet ) and his family .

http://www.abrahamsenaudio.no/default.asp#intro

 

[rainsoothe]

Hi. For your type of music, I'd suggest auditioning Marantz PM8005.

 

[radiorog]

Abrahamsen. Anything else at that price is the wrong decision.

 

[GustavAP]

Thank you all for some real interesting input. Sadly, ofcourse I can't audition the Abrahemsen, but I will consider it. I will have to let this take some time, and im not utterly displeased with the NAD, so there is no stress! And also I am looking for a significant upgrade. Do you have any suggestions for places where people talk about the Abrahamsen (forum posts, reviews [online or published in print])?

 

[nopiano]

Thank you all for some real interesting input. Sadly, ofcourse I can't audition the Abrahemsen, but I will consider it. I will have to let this take some time, and im not utterly displeased with the NAD, so there is no stress! And also I am looking for a significant upgrade. Do you have any suggestions for places where people talk about the Abrahamsen (forum posts, reviews [online or published in print])?

. There are several threads on this very site, but you need google to find it as there isn't a forum search.

 

[radiorog]

I've heard Abrahamsen do a 7 day cooling off period, where if you don't want it within that time, you can send it back. You'll have to ask though, I'm not sure on this.

 

[GustavAP]

Thank you Nopiano, I will have to blame my lazyness on the hangover.

This makes for a great sunday reading.

 

[BigH]

I would look at the Oslo store online, postage is reasonable, not sure of distance selling laws in Sweden/Norway but I'm sure they have a returns policy. I'm sure it will a be a big step up from NAD.

 

[DIB]

Why don't you consider the amps of XTZ. Very well regarded (though I've never heard one), in your budget, and built in your country. Lots of good reviews to be had on the web.

http://www.xtz.se/shop/eu/electronics/integrated-amplifiers/xtz-class-a-100-d3-black

.

 

[TrevC]

So NAD are no longer flavour of the month on WHF. It's curious why the OP thinks his NAD can't cope with high res. Of course it can, when used within its power capabilities.

 

[Electro]

Why don't you consider the amps of XTZ. Very well regarded (though I've never heard one), in your budget, and built in your country. Lots of good reviews to be had on the web.

http://www.xtz.se/shop/eu/electronics/integrated-amplifiers/xtz-class-a-100-d3-black

A very good recommendation, but last I heard they were out of stock until the new model is released, but it is worth enquiring it is a superb amp for the money!

 

[Electro]

So NAD are no longer flavour of the month on WHF. It's curious why the OP thinks his NAD can't cope with high res. Of course it can, when used within its power capabilities.

I don't think it has anything to do with any flavors of the month, the Nad is a very good amplifier if used within it's capabilities .

But when it comes to capability the Abrahamsen V2.0 up is an order of magnitute more capable, just look at the difference in spec.

When it comes to dynamics and preserving transients there is nothing that comes close to the Abrahamsen at the price in my and many others opinion .

 

[GustavAP]

The Norweigian currency is valued unusually low compared with the Swedish SEK, at the moment.

That puts the Abrahamsen (including shipping) at the exactly same price as the Rega Brio-R and the Cambridge CXA60, and just under the Marantz PM7005.

The Cambridge and the Marantz come with nice features (Phono + DAC Marantz and DAC Cambridge) so that I could get rid of the extra boxes, however this is not prioritezed. But those of you suggesting Abrahamsen, would you say it stand out that much from these midrange amplifiers?

 

[GustavAP]

I should also add that as there is no Headphone output on the Abrahamsen nor on the Rega, I would have to add a headphone amp to the setup. That makes the price for upgrade slightly higher (although insignificant) for the Abrahamsen and the Rega than the Cambrideg and Marantz. And yet another box!

 

[Electro]

The Norweigian currency is valued unusually low compared with the Swedish SEK, at the moment.

That puts the Abrahamsen (including shipping) at the exactly same price as the Rega Brio-R and the Cambridge CXA60, and just under the Marantz PM7005.

The Cambridge and the Marantz come with nice features (Phono + DAC Marantz and DAC Cambridge) so that I could get rid of the extra boxes, however this is not prioritezed. But those of you suggesting Abrahamsen, would you say it stand out that much from these midrange amplifiers?

Really ! Well in that case the Abrahamsen is even more of a bargain for you, all the other amps you mention are not even close spec wise.

The Abrahamsen has a 1000va transformer and a very large power supply and is conservatively rated at 70wpc into 8 ohms and 140wpc into 4 ohms , it delivers a massive amount of current and will drive any speaker connected to it effortlessly without breaking a sweat not to mention enormous amounts of transient power.

It is a true high end amplifier for an amazing price.

You could add an external phono stage and dac for a little more money which would make things more flexible in future.

The V 2.0 UP is the sort amp you could keep all your life and never have to upgrade.

 

[Electro]

I should also add that as there is no Headphone output on the Abrahamsen nor on the Rega, I would have to add a headphone amp to the setup. That makes the price for upgrade slightly higher (although insignificant) for the Abrahamsen and the Rega than the Cambrideg and Marantz. And yet another box!

You could sell your phono amp and dac and buy one of these to add to the Abrahamsen, it has phono stage, Dac and headphone amp in one box.

http://www.adl-av.com/products/usbdac/gt40a/

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/phono-stages/135-furutech-gt40-phono-stage-dac.html

 

[Andrewjvt]

In your shoes, id get the abrahamsen over the other amps you mentioned.

 

[radiorog]

The Norweigian currency is valued unusually low compared with the Swedish SEK, at the moment. 

That puts the Abrahamsen (including shipping) at the exactly same price as the Rega Brio-R and the Cambridge CXA60, and just under the Marantz PM7005. 

The Cambridge and the Marantz come with nice features (Phono + DAC Marantz and DAC Cambridge) so that I could get rid of the extra boxes, however this is not prioritezed. But those of you suggesting Abrahamsen, would you say it stand out that much from these midrange amplifiers?  

Really ! Well in that case the Abrahamsen is even more of a bargain for you, all the other amps you mention are not even close spec wise.

The Abrahamsen has a 1000va transformer and a very large power supply and is conservatively rated at 70wpc into 8 ohms and 140wpc into 4 ohms , it delivers a massive amount of current  and will drive any speaker connected to it effortlessly without breaking a sweat not to mention enormous amounts of transient power.

It is a true high end amplifier for an amazing price.

You could add an external phono stage and dac for a little more money which would make things more flexible in future.

The V 2.0 UP is the sort amp you could keep all your life and never have to upgrade.

 

 

What he said. As far as my amature ears could tell, its on another planet to othrr amps in the same price point.

 

[drummerman]

The Norweigian currency is valued unusually low compared with the Swedish SEK, at the moment.

That puts the Abrahamsen (including shipping) at the exactly same price as the Rega Brio-R and the Cambridge CXA60, and just under the Marantz PM7005.

The Cambridge and the Marantz come with nice features (Phono + DAC Marantz and DAC Cambridge) so that I could get rid of the extra boxes, however this is not prioritezed. But those of you suggesting Abrahamsen, would you say it stand out that much from these midrange amplifiers?

Really ! Well in that case the Abrahamsen is even more of a bargain for you, all the other amps you mention are not even close spec wise.

The Abrahamsen has a 1000va transformer and a very large power supply and is conservatively rated at 70wpc into 8 ohms and 140wpc into 4 ohms , it delivers a massive amount of current and will drive any speaker connected to it effortlessly without breaking a sweat not to mention enormous amounts of transient power.

It is a true high end amplifier for an amazing price.

You could add an external phono stage and dac for a little more money which would make things more flexible in future.

The V 2.0 UP is the sort amp you could keep all your life and never have to upgrade.

Ah, the usual SonofAbraham script.

Question is, do you want to make music or spot welding

Its also the size of a house and has as much design flair as the front of a Gbrf class 66 Diesel Locomotive.

Instead, to keep you wife (and yourself) happy, why not try cyrus's 8a?

Kidding, I am sure the big A is a decent amp and seems great value for money, at least considering the amount of metal you get. Some other good choices in this thread too but I also have to ask where you think your 316 is exactly lacking? A local HifiRetailer once said to me that the 315BEE (predecessor) is all the amplifier anyone probably would ever need. - They sold MF, Arcam, Rega etc. and I myself was on here quoting a visit I made where the little NAD and matching CD player sounded superb.

NAD are also known to have considerable dynamic headroom (as opposed to stiff power supplies ala Abrahamson). It may not be as load tolerant but choose speakers wisely and it wouldn't surprise me if the baby NAD would almost equal the lump from Norway in the loudness stakes. Choose an exceptionally difficult speaker and the big A will have the nose in front.

 

[BigH]

The Norweigian currency is valued unusually low compared with the Swedish SEK, at the moment.

That puts the Abrahamsen (including shipping) at the exactly same price as the Rega Brio-R and the Cambridge CXA60, and just under the Marantz PM7005.

The Cambridge and the Marantz come with nice features (Phono + DAC Marantz and DAC Cambridge) so that I could get rid of the extra boxes, however this is not prioritezed. But those of you suggesting Abrahamsen, would you say it stand out that much from these midrange amplifiers?

Really ! Well in that case the Abrahamsen is even more of a bargain for you, all the other amps you mention are not even close spec wise.

The Abrahamsen has a 1000va transformer and a very large power supply and is conservatively rated at 70wpc into 8 ohms and 140wpc into 4 ohms , it delivers a massive amount of current and will drive any speaker connected to it effortlessly without breaking a sweat not to mention enormous amounts of transient power.

It is a true high end amplifier for an amazing price.

You could add an external phono stage and dac for a little more money which would make things more flexible in future.

The V 2.0 UP is the sort amp you could keep all your life and never have to upgrade.

Ah, the usual SonofAbraham script.

Question is, do you want to make music or spot welding

Its also the size of a house and has as much design flair as the front of a Gbrf class 66 Diesel Locomotive.

Instead, to keep you wife (and yourself) happy, why not try cyrus's 8a?

Kidding, I am sure the big A is a decent amp and seems great value for money, at least considering the amount of metal you get. Some other good choices in this thread too but I also have to ask where you think your 316 is exactly lacking? A local HifiRetailer once said to me that the 315BEE (predecessor) is all the amplifier anyone probably would ever need. - They sold MF, Arcam, Rega etc. and I myself was on here quoting a visit I made where the little NAD and matching CD player sounded superb.

Cyrus have design flair? I think Cyrus look ugly and so do many others. Big and heavy is a good thing with amps? Better than some kids shoebox?