Integrated amp update for Bowers Wilkins 685

[drummerman]

The Norweigian currency is valued unusually low compared with the Swedish SEK, at the moment.

That puts the Abrahamsen (including shipping) at the exactly same price as the Rega Brio-R and the Cambridge CXA60, and just under the Marantz PM7005.

The Cambridge and the Marantz come with nice features (Phono + DAC Marantz and DAC Cambridge) so that I could get rid of the extra boxes, however this is not prioritezed. But those of you suggesting Abrahamsen, would you say it stand out that much from these midrange amplifiers?

Really ! Well in that case the Abrahamsen is even more of a bargain for you, all the other amps you mention are not even close spec wise.

The Abrahamsen has a 1000va transformer and a very large power supply and is conservatively rated at 70wpc into 8 ohms and 140wpc into 4 ohms , it delivers a massive amount of current and will drive any speaker connected to it effortlessly without breaking a sweat not to mention enormous amounts of transient power.

It is a true high end amplifier for an amazing price.

You could add an external phono stage and dac for a little more money which would make things more flexible in future.

The V 2.0 UP is the sort amp you could keep all your life and never have to upgrade.

Ah, the usual SonofAbraham script.

Question is, do you want to make music or spot welding

Its also the size of a house and has as much design flair as the front of a Gbrf class 66 Diesel Locomotive.

Instead, to keep you wife (and yourself) happy, why not try cyrus's 8a?

Kidding, I am sure the big A is a decent amp and seems great value for money, at least considering the amount of metal you get. Some other good choices in this thread too but I also have to ask where you think your 316 is exactly lacking? A local HifiRetailer once said to me that the 315BEE (predecessor) is all the amplifier anyone probably would ever need. - They sold MF, Arcam, Rega etc. and I myself was on here quoting a visit I made where the little NAD and matching CD player sounded superb.

Cyrus have design flair? I think Cyrus look ugly and so do many others. Big and heavy is a good thing with amps? Better than some kids shoebox?

BelCanto, Benchmark and many others may disagree with you ... .

 

[matthewpiano]

I am surprised that the NAD isn't satisfying with the 685s as my experience of the NAD/B&W combination has been positive, and the C316BEE is a very capable little amp.

Of all the amps I've owned and heard I've found Rega to be the best for performance per pound. The Bio-R at £548 is a fantastic performer with plenty of ability to drive and control a wide range of speakers, and a natural, open, and involving sound with good dynamic handling and tonal accuracy. It would make a very good match with your 685s. Stepping up to the Elex-R would give you even more. Every time I've been tempted away from the Brio-R I've ended up glad I kept hold of it because it always wins me over, and it is a great companion for long listening sessions.

I haven't been able to have more than a cursory listen to Abrahamsen (at a show) so can't comment.

Overall though, you need to audition some amps to make your own mind up, and be open to a surprise or two. Some of the best performance I've heard from 685s was with a Denon PMA720ae. Budget amp, but it really controlled the 685s and produced a very enjoyable sound from them. On the other hand, I've never liked B&Ws with Arcam and when I had some 686s with an A18, the amp just couldn't grip the speakers sufficiently. You might feel differently, hence the need to audition.

 

[Burnsie]

I have had a few amps in my time and to be honest the Abrahamsen 2UP is the best amp I have owned, for the price i really don't think it can be bettered(to my old ears anyway) I understand about your concerns about additional boxes but if you could live with them I can seriously recommend it. I think to get a amp of this quality without the need for additional boxes you would need to look at the Hegel H160.

DM I don't think its that bad looking and when did you become a train spotter *biggrin*

 

[drummerman]

I have had a few amps in my time and to be honest the Abrahamsen 2UP is the best amp I have owned, for the price i really don't think it can be bettered(to my old ears anyway) I understand about your concerns about additional boxes but if you could live with them I can seriously recommend it. I think to get a amp of this quality without the need for additional boxes you would need to look at the Hegel H160.

DM I don't think its that bad looking and when did you become a train spotter *biggrin*

I thought I didn't want to be rude and was looking for a flattering comparison

 

[Burnsie]

Like the Abrahamsen the Class 66 do what they were made for very well !!!

Not a train spotter I have been working in Railway depots for what it seems like for ever*dash1*

 

[GustavAP]

DM, I will try to answer your question. And thank you for your sobering comments about the Abarhamsen, putting some balance to the cheering crowd! It makes me at least calm enough to audition what I can before I checkout from the Norwegian webshop!

I think I put it quite badly in my first post. What I think the NAD is lacking two things. The first thing is that it tends to handle quicker bass passages with some restraint. However, I love the bass response when there is less going in the lower frequencies. The second thing is that I found the mids to be much less clear than when I ran my speakers with the Musical Fidelty B1, which gave me much more separation. However the B1 was also very fatiguing to my ears. I guess I heard something in the B1 that I would like to experience more of, but also want to keep the warmer and calmer sound of the NAD. (First I thought it could be about the B&W's but, I at least found the two amps I own so different on them that there might be something else out there)

Excuse my poorly discription of my feelings about the NAD, I'm not an english native speaker and more importantly, I do not speak audiophilian.

Concerning the Cyrus, I would have put it on my list if anyone retailed it anywhere near me! And the looks of it is equally displasing as the Abrahamsen to me

 

[GustavAP]

I am surprised that the NAD isn't satisfying with the 685s as my experience of the NAD/B&W combination has been positive, and the C316BEE is a very capable little amp.

Of all the amps I've owned and heard I've found Rega to be the best for performance per pound. The Bio-R at £548 is a fantastic performer with plenty of ability to drive and control a wide range of speakers, and a natural, open, and involving sound with good dynamic handling and tonal accuracy. It would make a very good match with your 685s. Stepping up to the Elex-R would give you even more. Every time I've been tempted away from the Brio-R I've ended up glad I kept hold of it because it always wins me over, and it is a great companion for long listening sessions.

I haven't been able to have more than a cursory listen to Abrahamsen (at a show) so can't comment.

Overall though, you need to audition some amps to make your own mind up, and be open to a surprise or two. Some of the best performance I've heard from 685s was with a Denon PMA720ae. Budget amp, but it really controlled the 685s and produced a very enjoyable sound from them. On the other hand, I've never liked B&Ws with Arcam and when I had some 686s with an A18, the amp just couldn't grip the speakers sufficiently. You might feel differently, hence the need to audition.

Thank you for your imput. The Rega won't be a problem to audition, so I will do that! Possibly together with the Marantz PM7005 and the CXA60.

 

[philpot1001]

FWIW the Marantz PM8005 is a cracking amp if you can stretch that far (lots of deals around £600 when i bought mine)....it sacrifices the practicality of having an onboard DAC, but if you can do without that it should be superior to the PM7005

 

[Electro]

DM, I will try to answer your question. And thank you for your sobering comments about the Abarhamsen, putting some balance to the cheering crowd! It makes me at least calm enough to audition what I can before I checkout from the Norwegian webshop!

I think I put it quite badly in my first post. What I think the NAD is lacking two things. The first thing is that it tends to handle quicker bass passages with some restraint. However, I love the bass response when there is less going in the lower frequencies. The second thing is that I found the mids to be much less clear than when I ran my speakers with the Musical Fidelty B1, which gave me much more separation. However the B1 was also very fatiguing to my ears. I guess I heard something in the B1 that I would like to experience more of, but also want to keep the warmer and calmer sound of the NAD. (First I thought it could be about the B&W's but, I at least found the two amps I own so different on them that there might be something else out there)

Excuse my poorly discription of my feelings about the NAD, I'm not an english native speaker and more importantly, I do not speak audiophilian.

Concerning the Cyrus, I would have put it on my list if anyone retailed it anywhere near me! And the looks of it is equally displasing as the Abrahamsen to me

I agree the look of the Abrahamsen is dated and a little blingy for some peoples taste especially the gold knobs *smile* , it's the Abrahamsen / Electrocompaniet trademark look.

But the MUSIC, it's all about the music . *good*

Just imagine the visual suffering you would have to endure if you had to live with this ( my ) system. *biggrin*

 

[drummerman]

DM, I will try to answer your question. And thank you for your sobering comments about the Abarhamsen, putting some balance to the cheering crowd! It makes me at least calm enough to audition what I can before I checkout from the Norwegian webshop!

I think I put it quite badly in my first post. What I think the NAD is lacking two things. The first thing is that it tends to handle quicker bass passages with some restraint. However, I love the bass response when there is less going in the lower frequencies. The second thing is that I found the mids to be much less clear than when I ran my speakers with the Musical Fidelty B1, which gave me much more separation. However the B1 was also very fatiguing to my ears. I guess I heard something in the B1 that I would like to experience more of, but also want to keep the warmer and calmer sound of the NAD. (First I thought it could be about the B&W's but, I at least found the two amps I own so different on them that there might be something else out there)

Excuse my poorly discription of my feelings about the NAD, I'm not an english native speaker and more importantly, I do not speak audiophilian.

Concerning the Cyrus, I would have put it on my list if anyone retailed it anywhere near me! And the looks of it is equally displasing as the Abrahamsen to me

If it was me, I'd certainly try the baby from Salisbury. It should do what the NAD does but better.

As to cyrus or anything else you don't like the look of ... we listen with our eyes as much as with the ears. If it's ugly to you ownership pride will take a dent.

Personally and just between ourselves ..., I will hold a grudge against you from hereon for your cyrus comment ;-)

 

[drummerman]

DM, I will try to answer your question. And thank you for your sobering comments about the Abarhamsen, putting some balance to the cheering crowd! It makes me at least calm enough to audition what I can before I checkout from the Norwegian webshop!

I think I put it quite badly in my first post. What I think the NAD is lacking two things. The first thing is that it tends to handle quicker bass passages with some restraint. However, I love the bass response when there is less going in the lower frequencies. The second thing is that I found the mids to be much less clear than when I ran my speakers with the Musical Fidelty B1, which gave me much more separation. However the B1 was also very fatiguing to my ears. I guess I heard something in the B1 that I would like to experience more of, but also want to keep the warmer and calmer sound of the NAD. (First I thought it could be about the B&W's but, I at least found the two amps I own so different on them that there might be something else out there)

Excuse my poorly discription of my feelings about the NAD, I'm not an english native speaker and more importantly, I do not speak audiophilian.

Concerning the Cyrus, I would have put it on my list if anyone retailed it anywhere near me! And the looks of it is equally displasing as the Abrahamsen to me

I agree the look of the Abrahamsen is dated and a little blingy for some peoples taste especially the gold knobs *smile* , it's the Abrahamsen / Electrocompaniet trademark look.

But the MUSIC, it's all about the music . *good*

Just imagine the visual suffering you would have to endure if you had to live with this ( my ) system. *biggrin*

You need a hair cut.

 

[Al ears]

DM, I will try to answer your question. And thank you for your sobering comments about the Abarhamsen, putting some balance to the cheering crowd! It makes me at least calm enough to audition what I can before I checkout from the Norwegian webshop!

I think I put it quite badly in my first post. What I think the NAD is lacking two things. The first thing is that it tends to handle quicker bass passages with some restraint. However, I love the bass response when there is less going in the lower frequencies. The second thing is that I found the mids to be much less clear than when I ran my speakers with the Musical Fidelty B1, which gave me much more separation. However the B1 was also very fatiguing to my ears. I guess I heard something in the B1 that I would like to experience more of, but also want to keep the warmer and calmer sound of the NAD. (First I thought it could be about the B&W's but, I at least found the two amps I own so different on them that there might be something else out there)

Excuse my poorly discription of my feelings about the NAD, I'm not an english native speaker and more importantly, I do not speak audiophilian.

Concerning the Cyrus, I would have put it on my list if anyone retailed it anywhere near me! And the looks of it is equally displasing as the Abrahamsen to me

I agree the look of the Abrahamsen is dated and a little blingy for some peoples taste especially the gold knobs *smile* , it's the Abrahamsen / Electrocompaniet trademark look.

But the MUSIC, it's all about the music . *good*

Just imagine the visual suffering you would have to endure if you had to live with this ( my ) system. *biggrin*

You need a hair cut.

I thought it was a hat.

 

[GustavAP]

DM, I will try to answer your question. And thank you for your sobering comments about the Abarhamsen, putting some balance to the cheering crowd! It makes me at least calm enough to audition what I can before I checkout from the Norwegian webshop!

I think I put it quite badly in my first post. What I think the NAD is lacking two things. The first thing is that it tends to handle quicker bass passages with some restraint. However, I love the bass response when there is less going in the lower frequencies. The second thing is that I found the mids to be much less clear than when I ran my speakers with the Musical Fidelty B1, which gave me much more separation. However the B1 was also very fatiguing to my ears. I guess I heard something in the B1 that I would like to experience more of, but also want to keep the warmer and calmer sound of the NAD. (First I thought it could be about the B&W's but, I at least found the two amps I own so different on them that there might be something else out there)

Excuse my poorly discription of my feelings about the NAD, I'm not an english native speaker and more importantly, I do not speak audiophilian.

Concerning the Cyrus, I would have put it on my list if anyone retailed it anywhere near me! And the looks of it is equally displasing as the Abrahamsen to me

If it was me, I'd certainly try the baby from Salisbury. It should do what the NAD does but better.

As to cyrus or anything else you don't like the look of ... we listen with our eyes as much as with the ears. If it's ugly to you ownership pride will take a dent.

Personally and just between ourselves ..., I will hold a grudge against you from hereon for your cyrus comment ;-)

As i'm all too ignorant of the UK geography (visited once when I was 10 years old) and all the associated Hifi-brands, I could not with certainty grasp your last recommendation. Naim?

I agree that the aestetics matter, and a part of the sonic experience, however I think I have a strong ability to a to find a way to like most different kind of looks and designs. I actually do not think the Cyrus is ugly at all. Maybe, if I find anything aestetically pleasing it would be the Primare, but maybe that's just national romanticism who knows...

 

[Electro]

You need a hair cut.

I thought it was a hat.

I can see that it's an easy mistake to make but the beauty with the hair in the listening chair is in fact my listening partner, as soon as I leave my listening chair she jumps on to it to enjoy the musical sweet spot leaving me to sit on her paw patterned rug at the side of the chair.

I suppose sacrifices have to be made for those we love .*biggrin*

 

[Al ears]

You need a hair cut.

I thought it was a hat.

I can see that it's an easy mistake to make but the beauty with the hair in the listening chair is in fact my listening partner, as soon as I leave my listening chair she jumps on to it to enjoy the musical sweet spot leaving me to sit on her paw patterned rug at the side of the chair.

I suppose sacrifices have to be made for those we love .*biggrin*

Ain't that the truth? Woof!

 

[GustavAP]

Kicking some life into this old thread. I have postponed my auditioning and purchase of another amp while focusing on listening to some great music instead. As so many people here were suggesting the Abrahamsen V.20 Up it was really hard to make a desicion between buying the Abe without audition and put it against other new amps that I actually can audition. Instead have thought about doing this in pure blindness (!) and having my eyes and ears out for capable second hand amps that (especially Primare I20, I21, or maybe Hegel H70 or S.A.T Ampelix). However as such a strategy where I would not be able to prperly audition the S/h stuff puts the Abrahamsen V.20 (non Up since they again adjusted their prices), in play.

Could any one of the Abe cheering crowd (and all other people) give me arguments for paying a couple of (like 200 €) euroes more for a factory new Abrahamsen instead of going out in the wildernes and look for used other scandinavian.

 

[radiorog]

newer amps last longer?

 

[GustavAP]

newer amps last longer?

Thanks, important argument. And there is a 5 year warranty on the Abrahamsen, so this argument should weigh pretty heavy.

 

[GustavAP]

After a lot of different considerations and head scratching, I settled with a second hand Primare I21 (£340). So far, after a couple of days of shorter oppertunities, and many hours today, I am very happy that I actually made a change. There is a big change in sound stage and stereo image as well as I experience a depth in the recordings, where the instruemnts are much easier to separate. First I thought that I experienced a lack in excitement (in relation to the NAD) however, when I have get used to the sound signature I find the excitment that I expect from the different recordings.

The biggest improvement for me personally is that I can enjoy much more of the frequency range at lower volumes compared to the previous amp.

Back to work and some more Avishai Cohen. Thanks for all the sugestions and so on yet again.