I'm all for the underdog

[plastic penguin]

I watch all the reviews of this device and its competition. It's better than anything from Cyrus, Naim, or Linn at any similar cost. Functionality, power, features etc. I often think people are reluctant to investigate the RS520 because it might upset them and make them realise their go to band is overpriced and not the technical tour de force they thought it was.

At over 2k some might say the R520 is way too expensive. Go and demo one alongside a cheaper version from the likes of Cambridge, or splash out on this:

Leema Acoustics Quasar Integrated Amplifier - Great Condition | eBay

We are an established hi-fi dealer with 35 years experience based in Oxford, UK and will do our best to answer any queries you may have.

www.ebay.co.uk

And they accept a 30 day returns. I would jump at it but my kit is mainly analogue. A waste of a cracking streamer/amp.

 

[plastic penguin]

Back to the topic, I think you pricked the conscience of the editorial team PP!

9 of the most underrated British hi-fi products we've ever tested

We think these gems deserve more love

www.whathifi.com

Wouldn't go that far but it's never mentioned on forums that I know of....

 

[nopiano]

Wouldn't go that far but it's never mentioned on forums that I know of....

Oh, and in the April Hifi News, just arrived, the new Leema pre+power is reviewed by Andrew Everard. The preamp has a couple of technical flaws but the power amp seems great for the money. Overall it’s ’Highly commended’.

 

[plastic penguin]

Oh, and in the April Hifi News, just arrived, the new Leema pre+power is reviewed by Andrew Everard. The preamp has a couple of technical flaws but the power amp seems great for the money. Overall it’s ’Highly commended’.

I was referring to the PMC Cor.

Leema are reviewed on most forums, but very few dip their hands in their bulging pockets.

 

[nopiano]

I was referring to the PMC Cor.

Leema are reviewed on most forums, but very few dip their hands in their bulging pockets.

Sure, I was just adding that further thought. (The Cor is just one product in the article, which also includes Leema. )

 

[Revolutions]

Eek, Pod will be furious. Or not furious.

The new NAD M66 streamer has opted for a MM/MC phono stage over something like internal storage. And it costs £4,500.

NAD M66 BluOS Streaming Pre Amplifier

The Masters M66 BluOS Streaming DAC-Preamplifier is a revolutionary hi-fi component that combines an audiophile-grade DAC with a high-resolution multi-room music streamer. Featuring Dirac Live Room Correction and Dirac Live Bass Control, its elegant design and vibrant 7

www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk

 

[Oxfordian]

Eek, Pod will be furious. Or not furious.

The new NAD M66 streamer has opted for a MM/MC phono stage over something like internal storage. And it costs £4,500.

NAD M66 BluOS Streaming Pre Amplifier

The Masters M66 BluOS Streaming DAC-Preamplifier is a revolutionary hi-fi component that combines an audiophile-grade DAC with a high-resolution multi-room music streamer. Featuring Dirac Live Room Correction and Dirac Live Bass Control, its elegant design and vibrant 7

www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk

Maybe brands are realising that vinyl hasn’t gone the way of the Dodo just yet and that people are actually enjoying listening to their vinyl collections alongside their digital music.

Bet that’s a pretty good phono stage as well, NAD used to be pretty good in that area if the memory is still working properly.

 

[matthewpianist]

I'm surprised to see the Naim CD5si in that article - it's a great CD player.

 

[nopiano]

Eek, Pod will be furious. Or not furious.

The new NAD M66 streamer has opted for a MM/MC phono stage over something like internal storage. And it costs £4,500.

NAD M66 BluOS Streaming Pre Amplifier

The Masters M66 BluOS Streaming DAC-Preamplifier is a revolutionary hi-fi component that combines an audiophile-grade DAC with a high-resolution multi-room music streamer. Featuring Dirac Live Room Correction and Dirac Live Bass Control, its elegant design and vibrant 7

www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk

Internal storage is so yesterday! Who has CDs to rip anyway, and why buy downloads when you can stream everything? 😉🤣

 

[Revolutions]

Internal storage is so yesterday! Who has CDs to rip anyway, and why buy downloads when you can stream everything? 😉🤣

tbf, you can easily connect your home server. And SSD in the RS250 is an optional extra.

But, nearly twice the price for the NAD. And an inferior screen (if screens are your thing). POD has got a point, most direct competition seems to cost you a lot more.

That said- when you’re in a niche market (high-end streaming), the disruption potential seems limited. It’d be really interesting to know how many customers are looking to spend £2k+ on a streamer & feel priced out by traditional means.

Ah! So Hifi Rose is aiming a specialist product at a niche market. Just like Graham Slee & Tom Evans. Does that them an underdog?

 

[Oxfordian]

tbf, you can easily connect your home server. And SSD in the RS250 is an optional extra.

But, nearly twice the price for the NAD. And an inferior screen (if screens are your thing). POD has got a point, most direct competition seems to cost you a lot more.

That said- when you’re in a niche market (high-end streaming), the disruption potential seems limited. It’d be really interesting to know how many customers are looking to spend £2k+ on a streamer & feel priced out by traditional means.

Ah! So Hifi Rose is aiming a specialist product at a niche market. Just like Graham Slee & Tom Evans. Does that them an underdog?

I thought that POD's Rose was £3400, yes the NAD is more expensive but it is going to steal a lot of potential Rose customers.

 

[Revolutions]

I thought that POD's Rose was £3400, yes the NAD is more expensive but it is going to steal a lot of potential Rose customers.

Oops, got mixed up there. Imagine naming your products 250 & 520.

 

[DiggyGun]

I have looked at and played with some Rose components and must admit to not being much of a fan of them.

The RA180 integrated amplifier, I find to be very ugly in trying to be retro looking with VU meters and all the moving parts on the front panel.

The RS250 streamer, albeit a cheaper price is a bit garish with how you can have the screen set up.

Don’t mind a large front screen, but like it off when playing, just giving feedback when making a command. After all, the info you need is on the app on your iPad / iPhone.

When I was younger I did like the Mission Cyrus, now just Cyrus components. Still do, in that they’ve kept the same basic concept, but evolved and upgraded them over the years.

I’ve two systems, one a Linn DSM based system and the second one is a SMSL DAC and integrated amplifier. Nice and discreet with a small footprint.

Both are different in their styling and presentation, also cost, but both work well with what I want them to do. A mixture of top dog and underdog. (Which has a specific woodworking meaning).

Linn, Naim, Cyrus, Nad, SMSL, et all gives a good selection of components to choose from, so at the end of the day, there is something for everyone.

DG…

 

[manicm]

Eek, Pod will be furious. Or not furious.

The new NAD M66 streamer has opted for a MM/MC phono stage over something like internal storage. And it costs £4,500.

NAD M66 BluOS Streaming Pre Amplifier

The Masters M66 BluOS Streaming DAC-Preamplifier is a revolutionary hi-fi component that combines an audiophile-grade DAC with a high-resolution multi-room music streamer. Featuring Dirac Live Room Correction and Dirac Live Bass Control, its elegant design and vibrant 7

www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk

The M66 has no amplification though. So adjust your opinions accordingly - as a reminder the Rose and the Linn mentioned previously both have amplification, so does a similarly priced Naim Unit system.

 

[manicm]

I thought that POD's Rose was £3400, yes the NAD is more expensive but it is going to steal a lot of potential Rose customers.

tbf, you can easily connect your home server. And SSD in the RS250 is an optional extra.

But, nearly twice the price for the NAD. And an inferior screen (if screens are your thing). POD has got a point, most direct competition seems to cost you a lot more.

That said- when you’re in a niche market (high-end streaming), the disruption potential seems limited. It’d be really interesting to know how many customers are looking to spend £2k+ on a streamer & feel priced out by traditional means.

Ah! So Hifi Rose is aiming a specialist product at a niche market. Just like Graham Slee & Tom Evans. Does that them an underdog?

The point is the facility of inserting an SSD. And they're inexpensive.

 

[plastic penguin]

Sure, I was just adding that further thought. (The Cor is just one product in the article, which also includes Leema. )

Ironically, according to Unilet, the Tucana is a bigger seller than the other Leema products.

 

[Al ears]

Still not too sure of the definition of underdogs.
Manufacturers produce products and, if they are good enough, have a good marketing strategy and a decent amount of dealers, and are realistically priced and distributed to the right people for review then there is no reason they shouldn't sell well.
Underdogs are that way for a reason, one or more of these requirements is not up to scratch.
Let's take my EB Acoustics EB2 speakers for example. Quality kit, very well made and considered better by many, myself included, than ATC SCM11 speakers.
The reason they are underdogs is the were not mass produced and the manufacturer could not keep up with demand, also they did not use dealerships.
However, sound wise and price wise they should have been able to wipe the floor with the opposition.

 

[podknocker]

Firstly, I want apologise if anyone feels offended by my rants. I don't want to upset genuinely nice people on this site, but vinyl is old and it doesn't sound as good as modern formats. Even if you really love vinyl and can't live without it, the sound quality can't compete with high res copies of studio recordings, IF mastered and transferred in the correct way.

I don't get a kick out of annoying people, but I really do think valve and vinyl lovers are scared of change and have closed their minds to the latest kit and don't want to give new gadgets a chance. You might want to stick to old formats, but has anyone really considered a new product being more convenient and actually giving them better sound quality? Take yourself out of your comfort zone and audition a HIFI Rose product.

IF you do this, have a thought and tell us all about it on this forum. If it sounds bollox, then tell everyone.

I think Leema are very much an underrated brand and I nearly got a trade in on my streamer to buy the Leema Quasar, but as I considered this trade in, a few new devices appeared and some of them are within my next HIFI budget.

John Darko has a NAD M66 and M23 and I think he's an expert and does know a thing or two about these products. I would love this pair, with the KEF R3 meta Darko has on the end of the NADs.

Back down to Earth and the HIFI Rose RS520 is just about obtainable, for those looking for a one box solution, with limited funds. I really want one and I'm sure the Class D sound will give me a load more detail and clarity than my Audiolab Omnia, which sounds OK, but there is little 'bite' or attack with most of the material I listen to.

To me , an underdog is a new arrival to the HIFI scene and an unknown quantity. Again (yewn) HIFI Rose are not as well established as Naim, but offer an exciting range of products and these can compete with well established Naim products and this is without 50 years of R&D and many iterations of familiar products.

 

[plastic penguin]

Firstly, I want apologise if anyone who feels offended by my rants. I don't want to upset genuinely nice people on this site, but vinyl is old and it doesn't sound as good as modern formats. Even if you really love vinyl and can't live without it, the sound quality can't compete with high res copies of studio recordings, IF mastered and transferred in the correct way.

I don't get a kick out of annoying people, but I really do think valve and vinyl lovers are scared of change and have closed their minds to the latest kit and don't want to give new gadgets a chance. You might want to stick to old formats, but has anyone really considered a new product being more convenient and actually giving them better sound quality? Take yourself out of your comfort zone and audition a HIFI Rose product.

IF you do this, have a thought and tell us all about it on this forum. If it sounds bollox, then tell everyone.

I think Leema are very much an underrated brand and I nearly got a trade in on my streamer to buy the Leema Quasar, but as I considered this trade in, a few new devices appeared and some of them are within my next HIFI budget.

John Darko has a NAD M66 and M23 and I think he's an expert and does know a thing or two about these products. I would love this pair, with the KEF R3 meta Darko has on the end of the NADs.

Back down to Earth and the HIFI Rose RS520 is just about obtainable, for those looking for a one box solution, with limited funds. I really want one and I'm sure the Class D sound will give me a load more detail and clarity than my Audiolab Omnia, which sounds OK, but there is little 'bite' or attack with most of the material I listen to.

To me , an underdog is a new arrival to the HIFI scene and an unknown quantity. Again (yewn) HIFI Rose are not as well establsihed as Naim, but offer an exciting range of products and these can compete with well established Naim products and this is without 50 years of R&D and many iterations of familiar products.

Not offended me, you've banged on about Rose 520 yet you've never heard one. As I said in my previous post to you go and demo one alongside a cheaper rival and see how they compare. If it blows the cheaper rival out of the water then come back and salivate over the Rose.

 

[plastic penguin]

Still not too sure of the definition of underdogs.
Manufacturers produce products and, if they are good enough, have a good marketing strategy and a decent amount of dealers, and are realistically priced and distributed to the right people for review then there is no reason they shouldn't sell well.
Underdogs are that way for a reason, one or more of these requirements is not up to scratch.
Let's take my EB Acoustics EB2 speakers for example. Quality kit, very well made and considered better by many, myself included, than ATC SCM11 speakers.
The reason they are underdogs is the were not mass produced and the manufacturer could not keep up with demand, also they did not use dealerships.
However, sound wise and price wise they should have been able to wipe the floor with the opposition.

Hi-fi components ignored by the majority. So yes, I would incl the EBs in that segment.

Leema
Exposure
Creek
Usher... are just few more I would classify as the underdog or Wimbledon FC even though they beat Liverpool in the FA Cup final years ago

 

[plastic penguin]

Back to the topic, I think you pricked the conscience of the editorial team PP!

9 of the most underrated British hi-fi products we've ever tested

We think these gems deserve more love

www.whathifi.com

Joking aside, most of those components listed are high end, with the exception of the Naim.

I mentioned this about 3 years ago, bit by bit audio companies are pricing themselves out of the two channel market. Very few people can afford 5 or 6k for a component.

AIG have done the same with their Heritage speakers, Creek the same, Leema have gone overboard with their pricing....

Any overseas brand doesn't fair any better with the whacking import taxes.

Hi-fi will kill itself. Even the British brands with export markets cannot go on without a solid homegrown fan base.

 

[Al ears]

Hi-fi components ignored by the majority. So yes, I would incl the EBs in that segment.

Leema
Exposure
Creek
Usher... are just few more I would classify as the underdog or Wimbledon FC even though they beat Liverpool in the FA Cup final years ago

Question. How do you know they are ignored by the majority?
They might have been assessed and found wanting.

 

[plastic penguin]

They might have been assessed and found wanting.

By whom?

 

[nopiano]

Even the British brands with export markets cannot go on without a solid homegrown fan base.

I was surprised to learn that the vast majority of output from the likes of Harbeth and ATC are exports. Made in Britain is of far more value in the Far East than at home, it seems.

And an acquaintance who makes high-end accessories had sold all his output overseas until last week, and that after about nine-months trading, and a category award in a UK journal.

My conclusion is that the manufacturerscould actually manage fine without the domestic market, strange as that seems.

 

[Oxfordian]

I was surprised to learn that the vast majority of output from the likes of Harbeth and ATC are exports. Made in Britain is of far more value in the Far East than at home, it seems.

My conclusion is that the manufacturerscould actually manage fine without the domestic market, strange as that seems.

It’s a fair conclusion, I watched a video where one of the UK CEO’s or equivalent was discussion the state of the hifi market and he commented that whilst the UK was okay for sales the vast majority of the production went overseas.

I’m trying to remember who it was but it was a speaker company, and it was a few years back but post covid as that was one of the topics discussed.

And it was the upmarket speakers that were amongst the most popular, not stand mounts but top of the range floor standers, from memory Hong Kong and Singapore were mentioned along with China as top destinations.

It wasn’t ATC on the video but it could have been KEF but I’m guessing.

If I can find the video I’ll update this post.