If not Naim then.......recommendations please?

[Paulq]

Fasten your set belts for this one which, by the way, I've also posted on other forums to spread the net as wide as poss in terms of responses. It's a long story that I'll keep as short as I can but some context needed.

Until October 2015 I was a long term Linn owner (I know I know....) owning a Majik DSM/2100 bi-amped into Linn Majik 140's. Lovely system, never gave me a minute's bother in the 4 years I owned it but, as I listen to a lot of rock music, it was a bit too 'polite' for me. By the way the setup is:

Flac/HrRes files on Synology NAS > ethernet switch.
Streamer hard wired to network switch also.
Control points are iOS apps or OSX apps.

In Oct last year I fancied a new setup, as you do, and sold the Linn stuff with every intention of going either to a new Majik or Akurate with a set of B&W's to give the sound a bit more, umm, welly. That didn't happen as I heard a Naim system with a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 1's and 8's and was blown away. I bought both but mainly use the 8's and LOVE them. They are staying so woe betide anyone suggesting I change them. I'd rather vote Trump. Well, Mrs Trump actually but that's another story.

Now the trouble is this. After 2 months the first Naim started sulking and blew up, literally, after being temperamental with jumping off the network frequently. Good enough Naim were brilliant and replaced it. Trouble is the second one is showing similar symptoms which is a bit tiresome. I've been through all, and I mean all, the network tests and the issue seems to be that the Naim stuff and my UPnP servers seem to fall out periodically. I run a Synology DS212j running Synology Media Server and recently added MinimSever. The Naim simply decides when it wants to see the UPnP, particularly when there are updates needed. Linn was never an issue running the same setup.

One is now at the end of one's tether somewhat.

So - I am looking at options in terms of what alternative kit I could buy, requiring a streamer and amp powerful enough to drive the MA Silver 8's, with the same NAS setup etc. I'd have a budget of around £5k plus whatever I sold the Naim UQ2 and NAP100 for so quite enough for something quality. I do like the Naim sound so would be keen to try and replicate that or certainly get something with the 'ballsy' signature it has.

Any help much appreciated.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Fasten your set belts for this one which, by the way, I've also posted on other forums to spread the net as wide as poss in terms of responses. It's a long story that I'll keep as short as I can but some context needed.Until October 2015 I was a long term Linn owner (I know I know....) owning a Majik DSM/2100 bi-amped into Linn Majik 140's.  Lovely system, never gave me a minute's bother in the 4 years I owned it but, as I listen to a lot of rock music, it was a bit too 'polite' for me.  By the way the setup is:Flac/HrRes files on Synology NAS > ethernet switch.Streamer hard wired to network switch also.Control points are iOS apps or OSX apps.In Oct last year I fancied a new setup, as you do, and sold the Linn stuff with every intention of going either to a new Majik or Akurate with a set of B&W's to give the sound a bit more, umm, welly.  That didn't happen as I heard a Naim system with a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 1's and 8's and was blown away.  I bought both but mainly use the 8's and LOVE them.  They are staying so woe betide anyone suggesting I change them. I'd rather vote Trump. Well, Mrs Trump actually but that's another story. Now the trouble is this.  After 2 months the first Naim started sulking and blew up, literally, after being temperamental with jumping off the network frequently.  Good enough Naim were brilliant and replaced it.  Trouble is the second one is showing similar symptoms which is a bit tiresome.  I've been through all, and I mean all, the network tests and the issue seems to be that the Naim stuff and my UPnP servers seem to fall out periodically. I run a Synology DS212j running Synology Media Server and recently added MinimSever.  The Naim simply decides when it wants to see the UPnP, particularly when there are updates needed.  Linn was never an issue running the same setup.

One is now at the end of one's tether somewhat.

So - I am looking at options in terms of what alternative kit I could buy, requiring a streamer and amp powerful enough to drive the MA Silver 8's, with the same NAS setup etc.  I'd have a budget of around £5k plus whatever I sold the Naim UQ2 and NAP100 for so quite enough for something quality.  I do like the Naim sound so would be keen to try and replicate that or certainly get something with the 'ballsy' signature it has.Any help much appreciated.

There are loads of good amps for that sort of money so if i were you id go visit a couple of dealers and demo some as what i like is of no help for your ears.

Only thing i would say is: have a look at active set up also (i know what you said about the monitor audio)

 

[jjbomber]

So - I am looking at options in terms of what alternative kit I could buy, requiring a streamer and amp powerful enough to drive the MA Silver 8's, with the same NAS setup etc. I'd have a budget of around £5k plus whatever I sold the Naim UQ2 and NAP100 for so quite enough for something quality. I do like the Naim sound so would be keen to try and replicate that or certainly get something with the 'ballsy' signature it has.Any help much appreciated.

Cyrus Lyric all-in-one printer would tick every box, especially the fugly box. They are £1,600 these days. I'm not sure why you don't just buy a network player and keep the UQ2 as a pre-amp. Or use the Cyrus fugly with the Naim power amp. You seem to be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Paulq]

There are loads of good amps for that sort of money so if i were you id go visit a couple of dealers and demo some as what i like is of no help for your ears.

Only thing i would say is: have a look at active set up also (i know what you said about the monitor audio)

Yep I understand so but am looking for some pointers as to which in particular so I can line up some demos. Ultimately I'll decide but there is some knowledge of brands/sounds on here that I don't have as I have been with Linn, and latterly Naim, for so long.

So...any specific pointers would be very welcome. Thanks.

 

[Andrewjvt]

There are loads of good amps for that sort of money so if i were you id go visit a couple of dealers and demo some as what i like is of no help for your ears.

Only thing i would say is: have a look at active set up also (i know what you said about the monitor audio)

Yep I understand so but am looking for some pointers as to which in particular so I can line up some demos. Ultimately I'll decide but there is some knowledge of brands/sounds on here that I don't have as I have been with Linn, and latterly Naim, for so long.

So...any specific pointers would be very welcome.  Thanks.

Keeping the naim and getting a network streamer may be the best solution as you like the naim/monitor audio sound. I personally would not mess with that.

I have an amp that is very neutral so might not be a good option for you.

Im sure youll get other opinions also.

Try lend a streamer from a dealer first to see if it works.
Just my 2c

 

[drummerman]

... or you could just forget about streaming and buy a turntable

Problemo solved.

 

[bigfish786]

That. ^

 

[Al ears]

... or you could just forget about streaming and buy a turntable

Problemo solved.

And could buy an Oppo 105 and a good amplifier, Primare or Hegel.

 

[Paulq]

... or you could just forget about streaming and buy a turntable

Problemo solved.

Don't be silly. That removes my opportunity to buy an LP12 AFTER I sort the streaming. *biggrin*

 

[drummerman]

... or you could just forget about streaming and buy a turntable

Problemo solved.

Don't be silly. That removes my opportunity to buy an LP12 AFTER I sort the streaming. *biggrin*

I think I like you ;-)

 

[Infiniteloop]

Devialet 200.

Sorted.

 

[spiny norman]

the issue seems to be that the Naim stuff and my UPnP servers seem to fall out periodically. I run a Synology DS212j running Synology Media Server and recently added MinimSever. The Naim simply decides when it wants to see the UPnP, particularly when there are updates needed. Linn was never an issue running the same setup.

Slightly off the main topic, for which I apologise, but as something of a computer nerd I was recently asked to take a look at the network of a friend who was having similar network-dropping problem with a Naim ND5 (I think - anyway, one one of the Naim players you have to plug into an amplifier).

Anyway, upshot is that if the Synology is running both its own Media Server and MinimServer, I'd turn the former off and just leave MinimServer running. Probably also worth assigning static IP addresses to both the Synology and the UnitiQute.

And are you running the Naim app, or something third-party? The Naim network kit will work with Kinsky/Kazoo, Bubble UPnP, PlugPlayer and the like, but seems to work best with the Naim app, as you might expect.

Just my 2p's worth.

 

[spiny norman]

Nac 172xs and nap 155 xs problem sorted.

Though probably not the network-dropping problem.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Nac 172xs and nap 155 xs or used nap 250 problem sorted . I'd like to hear that setup.

 

[Paulq]

Slightly off the main topic, for which I apologise, but as something of a computer nerd I was recently asked to take a look at the network of a friend who was having similar network-dropping problem with a Naim ND5 (I think - anyway, one one of the Naim players you have to plug into an amplifier).

Anyway, upshot is that if the Synology is running both its own Media Server and MinimServer, I'd turn the former off and just leave MinimServer running. Probably also worth assigning static IP addresses to both the Synology and the UnitiQute.

And are you running the Naim app, or something third-party? The Naim network kit will work with Kinsky/Kazoo, Bubble UPnP, PlugPlayer and the like, but seems to work best with the Naim app, as you might expect.

Just my 2p's worth.

That's really helpful thanks. I'll have a go at turning off the Synology server but am actually not sure whether it's 'Audio Station' or 'Media Server'? Do you know?

I forgot to add that both devices have static IP's assigned. I use the Naim apps on iOS devices.

I must admit it's been an incredibly frustrating experience and without wishing to bag Naim in any way, a quick Google search reveals I am not alone in having such issues.....

 

[nopiano]

Devialet 200.

Sorted.

That was going to be my suggestion, or whatever model fits your budget.

It is not without quirks, and I can't say if it would fit with your storage as that's beyond my ken, but I'd definitely find a good dealer to ask. In the south of England that might be Oxford Audio consultants or Guildford Audio.

 

[spiny norman]

That's really helpful thanks. I'll have a go at turning off the Synology server but am actually not sure whether it's 'Audio Station' or 'Media Server'? Do you know?

I'd turn off both, unless you also use your Synology to serve other content (eg movies) to another device, in which case I'd leave MediaServer on. If you're using it purely for music, turn off everything except MinimServer, check you have it pointed at the right folder (in Minimwatch) and run a Minimwatch rescan. Should then be fine.

 

[Paulq]

That's really helpful thanks. I'll have a go at turning off the Synology server but am actually not sure whether it's 'Audio Station' or 'Media Server'? Do you know?

I'd turn off both, unless you also use your Synology to serve other content (eg movies) to another device, in which case I'd leave MediaServer on. If you're using it purely for music, turn off everything except MinimServer, check you have it pointed at the right folder (in Minimwatch) and run a Minimwatch rescan. Should then be fine.

Thanks - Minimwatch is already set up as you suggest and pointed at the right directory on the NAS so I'll give turning the others off a go. It's a bit more fussy about tags than the Synology server but I'll sort that out.

There is a part of me that's just saying 'sod it', 'go back to Linn'.

 

[lindsayt]

Paulq, so you're thinking of mating your £1200 speakers with £5000 worth of digitial front end and amplification?

That's not something I'd ever do.

If you like the faux PA sound of Naim, why not try a proper PA amplifier? Something like a Crown DC300a? If you don't want to go PA, but want something Naim like, but better sounding for the price, try Avondale.

Alternatively try some Battleship Japanese 2nd hand amp. The sort of thing that would have cost over half a million yen when new. For example, a Pioneer Exclusive pre-power combination would be within your budget (if you can find 240 volt examples) and would give you mega bragging rights on hi-fi forums.

Benchmark DAC's are good.

 

[spiny norman]

If you like the faux PA sound of Naim, why not try a proper PA amplifier? Something like a Crown DC300a? If you don't want to go PA, but want something Naim like, but better sounding for the price, try Avondale.

Same old same old. He's not dissatisfied with the sound, but the operational problems he's having are putting him off. And of course the amps you suggest have built-in network playback? *scratch_one-s_head*

 

[lindsayt]

He could get better PA type sound and a lot of cash back by going for a classic old proper PA amp. And he did say he was looking for a power amp.

And I did say that Benchmark DAC's are good. One of them connected to a computer would provide a reliable networked digital source that sounds at least as good as anything from Linn or Naim without costing more than a few hundred quid.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Paulq, so you're thinking of mating your £1200 speakers with £5000 worth of digitial front end and amplification?

That's not something I'd ever do.

If you like the faux PA sound of Naim, why not try a proper PA amplifier? Something like a Crown DC300a? If you don't want to go PA, but want something Naim like, but better sounding for the price, try Avondale.

Alternatively try some Battleship Japanese 2nd hand amp. The sort of thing that would have cost over half a million yen when new. For example, a Pioneer Exclusive pre-power combination would be within your budget (if you can find 240 volt examples) and would give you mega bragging rights on hi-fi forums.

Benchmark DAC's are good.

While i agree with lindsayt regards the amps sound and also speaker choice. Imo those speakers are not good sound.

Ive tried not put my opinion on you but if you can consider - there is better to be had

 

[Burnsie]

I use the Linn Majik ds connected to my Synology NAS by home plugs and don't have any issues. My amp is the Abrahamsen 2 UP. I love the sound of what i have but I never really got on with Naim.

I believe a similar system could be had with Hegel and Linn, don't know if you could get a demo but thats just my 2 cents worth.

Love your idea of getting a LP12, toying with the same myself but just trying to justifying it to the boss*blush*

 

[Paulq]

Paulq, so you're thinking of mating your £1200 speakers with £5000 worth of digitial front end and amplification?

That's not something I'd ever do.

If you like the faux PA sound of Naim, why not try a proper PA amplifier? Something like a Crown DC300a? If you don't want to go PA, but want something Naim like, but better sounding for the price, try Avondale.

Alternatively try some Battleship Japanese 2nd hand amp. The sort of thing that would have cost over half a million yen when new. For example, a Pioneer Exclusive pre-power combination would be within your budget (if you can find 240 volt examples) and would give you mega bragging rights on hi-fi forums.

Benchmark DAC's are good.

Thanks for replying.

You see I won't play that game - it's what dealers do - convince you that if you buy something else then what you already have becomes sub standard because it's at a different price point. I genuinely don't believe that and age and experience has taught me that I decide what I like rather than consumer pressure or dealer pressure to change. The only other speakers I heard that worked for me were the PMC Twenty 23's and there wasn't much in it.

 

[Paulq]

While i agree with lindsayt regards the amps sound and also speaker choice. Imo those speakers are not good sound.

Ive tried not put my opinion on you but if you can consider - there is better to be had

This is to satisfy my curiosity more than anything as I'll take a LOT of convincing to change the speakers but, as you seem not to be a fan of the MA's, then what would you cite as 'better'? Bear in mind that my attraction to the MA's is that they just hit the sweet spot for me in terms of bass and treble - I listen to a lot of rock, prog and ambient and they, to me, do everything well.