I really thought this was a spoof

[Laurens_B]

Ah, its the monthly 'slash RA' thread. i thought it was overdue

C'mon guys, there are far worse offenders.

Whilst I couldn't possible quantify the upgrades made (they are coy about the details) improved power supplies can often make a substantial difference alone. There are enough examples out there, my cyrus system only being one.

So, whilst 700 quid feels like an awful lot for a sky box, they have at least tampered with the innards.

As this had to be done by hand, individually (ala T.E of the 90's with his souped up stable platter Pioneer players) it will cost.

£400 to be precise if you already have a box.

Still, it would be helpful if they'd actually tell potential buyers what exactly they changed ... .

Edit. The changes are kind off detailed on the second page. Whilst I don't expect all of you to agree about the effect of mains filters and/or component upgrades it seems quite a bit has been done.

Whether that justifies spending that on a SkyBox ... only you can decide but if you are the kind of guy or gal that has to have the best ... well.

Like I said, far worse offenders out there and without having actually used and compared one of these, how can you guys categorically say the internal changes are not effective in some way?

I really do get your point. However, we are talking about technical products, which are claimed to do things that go against every scientific paper published on the subject by either IEEE or AES. It is definitely worth looking into then.

The following quote comes from religion discussion, but it is very applicable here as well:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

 

[tonky]

It's moving along nicely as a comedy forum! Plenty of unnecessary comedic posts for a hi-fi forum. I'd much rather have the music posts instead - always like to hear other peoples opinions and recommendations on music.

tonky

 

[Gazzip]

I really do get your point. However, we are talking about technical products, which are claimed to do things that go against every scientific paper published on the subject by either IEEE or AES. It is definitely worth looking into then.

The following quote comes from religion discussion, but it is very applicable here as well:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

Just read the RA blurb on the SkyBox upgrade. No extraordinary claims there. A suggestion that they think the tuner's sound has improved a bit by earthing the chassis, which is entirely possible if the original is not adequately earthed. Nothing else of note. Everything else is just waffle about better quality parts fitted in lieu of standard parts. I would say no extraordinary evidence required.

 

[bigboss]

You haven't read the whole page then. There are many claims:

- IEC socket replaces existing figure 8 socket, which is additionally earthed to the chassis. This allows you to use your choice of mains cable fitted with a standard IEC plug – choose from any in our range of mains cables, from the PowerMax Plus upwards - and earthing the casework brings about further sound quality improvements - Silencer components are fitted to the IEC input. Silencer reduces mains noise giving a smoother sound with less sibilance and better picture quality. SuperClamp components fitted along with the Silencer help to reduce mains spikes and surges- Optical and coaxial digital outputs component upgrades. Key capacitor upgrades on the optical and coaxial digital outputs have a large effect on sound quality, allowing a smoother and more natural sound- HDMI output upgrades. Key component upgrades to HDMI outputs improve picture and sound quality- Power supply capacitors upgraded. Upgrading power supply capacitors has a marked effect in performance, giving a cleaner, sweeter sound- Big Cone Feet (included loose) can be fitted to the unit. We include three Big Cone Feet with the unit for best support and performance.- Capacitor upgrades to tuner input. Our tests show this brings large improvements in sound and picture quality- Fitted with Clarity Mains filter. In addition to the Silencer we also add a Clarity Mains filter to the box for even more noise reduction producing clearer, cleaner sound and vision

99% of components in the box are SMD, impossible to screw arround with the circuit except replace discrete throughole components, though I doubt they changed those either. You can't improve digital video HDMI by swapping caps, wires, opamps and cone feet. FFS! *lol*

Let's see what ASA thinks.

 

[Laurens_B]

I really do get your point. However, we are talking about technical products, which are claimed to do things that go against every scientific paper published on the subject by either IEEE or AES. It is definitely worth looking into then.

The following quote comes from religion discussion, but it is very applicable here as well:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

Just read the RA blurb on the SkyBox upgrade. No extraordinary claims there. A suggestion that they think the tuner's sound has improved a bit by earthing the chassis, which is entirely possible if the original is not adequately earthed. Nothing else of note. Everything else is just waffle about better quality parts fitted in lieu of standard parts. I would say no extraordinary evidence required.

I intended to quote some passages from the website to make my point. I quickly realized that this whole page is full of extraordinary claims, so I just link to the page:

http://www.russandrews.com/eu/better-sound-from-your-hi-fi/

Though, we might always disagree on what is extraordinary.

 

[Vladimir]

You haven't read the whole page then. There are many claims:

- IEC socket replaces existing figure 8 socket, which is additionally earthed to the chassis. This allows you to use your choice of mains cable fitted with a standard IEC plug – choose from any in our range of mains cables, from the PowerMax Plus upwards - and earthing the casework brings about further sound quality improvements - Silencer components are fitted to the IEC input. Silencer reduces mains noise giving a smoother sound with less sibilance and better picture quality. SuperClamp components fitted along with the Silencer help to reduce mains spikes and surges- Optical and coaxial digital outputs component upgrades. Key capacitor upgrades on the optical and coaxial digital outputs have a large effect on sound quality, allowing a smoother and more natural sound- HDMI output upgrades. Key component upgrades to HDMI outputs improve picture and sound quality- Power supply capacitors upgraded. Upgrading power supply capacitors has a marked effect in performance, giving a cleaner, sweeter sound- Big Cone Feet (included loose) can be fitted to the unit. We include three Big Cone Feet with the unit for best support and performance.- Capacitor upgrades to tuner input. Our tests show this brings large improvements in sound and picture quality- Fitted with Clarity Mains filter. In addition to the Silencer we also add a Clarity Mains filter to the box for even more noise reduction producing clearer, cleaner sound and vision

99% of components in the box are SMD, impossible to screw arround with the circuit except replace discrete throughole components, though I doubt they changed those either. You can't improve digital video HDMI by swapping caps, wires, opamps and cone feet. FFS! *lol*

Let's see what ASA thinks.

They can claim all they want in the analogue domain and in audio, but with digital video via HDMI they shot themselves in the foot.

Think about it. If they modded these set top boxes they are also responsible for the warranty and service. Lord Sugar wont bare the cost and responsibility since these boxes are now hacked and void warranty. Is RA that big of an operation that they can buy out license of all the servicing schematics, spare parts in stock for the future, and employ service technicians and machinery for working with SMDs? If a big expensive IC fries inside my set top box while in warranty, who will fix it?

Or maybe these are never opened, just wooden feet screwed on, so in case of warranty failure they get sent back to Amstrad to get fixed.

Thoughts?

 

[bigfish786]

I'm surprised they aren't all wearing wooden shoes!

 

[Gazzip]

The power cord socket has been changed from IEC C7 to C15 so the original warranty would I suspect be voided, and a straight return to manufacturer out of the question.

 

[Vladimir]

Well, if they sell 1,000 of these, at 200,000 GBP profit, I guess they can afford to fix 10 in those 1,000 (1% failure rate) by paying Amstrad to do it.

 

[spiny norman]

Not only that, but has anyone noticed how many Green Shield Stamps it takes to buy a kettle? It's a scandal!

 

[bigboss]

Anyway, I have complained to the ASA about unsubstantiated claims of "improved performance". Let's see what they say.

Here's the update to my complaint.