How to get the best sound from a pc

[gasolin]

I am curios how to get the best sound from my computer and in to my Denon DRA-F109 (most noise free an high end sound)

I am using an optical cable from my motherboard into the reciver, is it this the best way?

Using my usb soundblaster titanium hd hifi usb souncard, either with optical cable or usb from my computer,then to my reciver an optical cable or rca?

If i in the nearest future want to upgrade the sound, i guess it's a dac, but how to connect it for best sound? Optical cable or usb from my computer?

Then from the dac to my reciver an optical cable or rca?

Isn't there some kind of dac in my Denon reciver that would make an external dac less effecient(not using the sound from the external dac to it's full potential), like using a good dac then to put the signal thru some cheap or awarage dac or other digital circuit in my Denon reciver?

Ist there a sound difference from a cheap but good Optical cable and someting like QED's performance Graphite Optical cable?

 

[superchiwawa]

Getting quality audio from a pc, though subjective, isn't always an easy feat. There's loads of interferemce going on and as a consequence the soundcard on your mb is porone to high levels of jitter (timing errors) which affects things like soundstage and generally the quality of your listening expereince. So you got two routes to go if you want the best out of your source (excluding high quality souond card - externalising your source will reduce the chance of interference):

- usb to a quality Asynchronous usb spdif converter -> then striaght to amp. Your amp will do the digital to anaolgue conversion with its own DACs. There's a few good ones about. Audiophileo 2 is a very very good example with seriously low jitter, with a price tag to suit (though not unreasonable IMO)

- or as you mentioned go usb to asynchonous DAC -> to your amp's analog imputs, bypassing your amp's DAC. Here you have the advantage, as with all seperates, of choosing the sound that you like best from your source, and will likey improve on your amp. French company micromega's mydac is a great example for 300 euros - I can't vouch for it personnaly, but it's been recommended to me by a reputable hifi shop that sells stuff 100 times that price - and a a couple friends chose it to an 1800 euros NAD dac.. You get to improve your WOW vibe on your listening experience with the right suff. Anyway it's all subjective but you get the point...

Why USB? And why asynchronous? Well the standard is open and sufficiently mastereed to be used as a quality transport. And that has enabled to develop better (and more complex) ways to control the timing of the signal. Asynchrous basically means the timing is no longer controlled by the computer but by the device that's doing the processing, in time with it's own functions as required. Else things get a little muddled and that's if i'm not talking rubbish is kinda what jitter is.

And if you really wanna clean things up, you can go usb->usb battery power (not from noisy computer) for clean signal ->super quality spdif converter->DAC->Amp, but depending on the DAC, that may just be overkill...

Tbh this all theory but having asked myself the same questions and done a fair bit of research, this is what i've learnt so far...

As for cables, well that's a big debate, and the only way to tell is a blind test - unfortunalety the fact that you're wowed by the graphite performance marketing blabla may have a psychological effect on your result if you know which is which. I've heard and read that each cable has it's signature though so it's not impossible, and my guess for an optical cable is the cleaner the received signal, the less error correction, and the better the sound, but what to I know... pure speculation here

Oh and as with any test, if you are testing that is, don't make any assumptions, and change one variable at a time (ie not cable and DAC + different amp. just cable for instance), else it's not a valid comparison. People easily forget this and inadvertently rule out some perfectly good kit in the process

 

[gasolin]

If i use one of these that i can get for about 100€ what kind of cable do i use?

http://www.m2tech.biz/hiface.html

I guess it has to be analoge cables into my reciver or else the dac inside of my reciver which cost totally about 268€, sounds good and lots of power for what i am using it for, but it does not leave so much for the dac, so i thinks it's a analoge cable or else it's the denon dac that does the converting.

Havn't found which cables i can use, theres only one singel output and i need two plugs (is that the right word?) into my reciver all in all 3 plugs one in the dac and 2 in my reciver.

I just can find such a cable

Which way is best to connect a dac with a usb cable? Direct into my motherboard or the usb on my cabinet from fractal design (core 3000)

 

[superchiwawa]

Yeah, the hiface or hiface two if you can, I've read good reviews.

I think you're confusing analog, which requires two connections (for stereo, left and right channels) and digital connections. The hiface has an SPDIF connector, sends a digital signal over a COAX cable (wire therefore current), instead of optical (digital COAX has lower jitter apparently). So whatever you plug it into is going to receive a digital signal. There's no digital to analog conversion here! (which would split the output into left and right channels for stereo like you describe, hence your red and white connectors)

Yes the connectors are the same 'RCA' type on your reciever. No you only need one cable. Plugs into "Network" or "CD" (the brownish RCA type ones) under "Digital In" at the back of your receiver.

Plug straight into the mb. any other rerouting of the usb signal is source for interference. And worth getting quality COAX cable if you're going this route. IMO

 

[sogophonio11]

Check my sig, thats how to do it.

Cheers.

 

[gasolin]

Yeah, the hiface or hiface two if you can, I've read good reviews.

I think you're confusing analog, which requires two connections (for stereo, left and right channels) and digital connections. The hiface has an SPDIF connector, sends a digital signal over a COAX cable (wire therefore current), instead of optical (digital COAX has lower jitter apparently). So whatever you plug it into is going to receive a digital signal. There's no digital to analog conversion here! (which would split the output into left and right channels for stereo like you describe, hence your red and white connectors)

Yes the connectors are the same 'RCA' type on your reciever. No you only need one cable. Plugs into "Network" or "CD" (the brownish RCA type ones) under "Digital In" at the back of your receiver.

Plug straight into the mb. any other rerouting of the usb signal is source for interference. And worth getting quality COAX cable if you're going this route. IMO

The hiface is only something that change anlog sound into a high quality digital signal for a dac...........right?

A new dac for my pc for not more then 100€, is that possible? The project usb dac is possible to get for about 100€ in germany but the project dac that whathifi reviewed isn't that good http://www.whathifi.com/review/pro-ject-usb-box

 

[sogophonio11]

And try and keep subject heading under 64 characters please.

***** to post properly!

Cheers.

 

[sogophonio11]

Sorry mods!

DIFFICULT.

 

[superchiwawa]

The hiface is only something that change anlog sound into a high quality digital signal for a dac...........right?

A new dac for my pc for not more then 100€, is that possible? The project usb dac is possible to get for about 100€ in germany but the project dac that whathifi reviewed isn't that good http://www.whathifi.com/review/pro-ject-usb-box

Nope the sound is still digital from your usb port, but just because it's digital doesn't mean it's stays a perfect signal. The Hiface converts it as close to the source as possible to SPDIF standard format, which your amp for example can understand.

If you wanna go for an external DAC instead, i'd say save up, shop around, listen, pick the one you like best for your budget. 300-400 or so euros should get you something pretty decent like the mydac (seems great value for money), then again it's not always about the price... Always nice finding great value for money gems ... And in the mean time, you can stick to what you got (optical or minijack to rca from mb/soundcard to amp)

Hope that's making sense!

 

[Overdose]

I am curios how to get the best sound from my computer and in to my Denon DRA-F109 (most noise free an high end sound)

I am using an optical cable from my motherboard into the reciver, is it this the best way?

Using my usb soundblaster titanium hd hifi usb souncard, either with optical cable or usb from my computer,then to my reciver an optical cable or RCA

Optical cable into your Denon should be fine. If you want a good USB DAC recommendation, then try one of THESE. Don't be put off by the price or size, it has been tested favourably against a Benchmark DAC 1.

Optical provides the benefit of galvanic isolation, but this might not be an issue for you, in which case USB would be fine.

EDIT: I think you'd be surprised at how good your sund card is just connecting via the analogue output.

 

[gasolin]

I am curios how to get the best sound from my computer and in to my Denon DRA-F109 (most noise free an high end sound)

I am using an optical cable from my motherboard into the reciver, is it this the best way?

Using my usb soundblaster titanium hd hifi usb souncard, either with optical cable or usb from my computer,then to my reciver an optical cable or RCA

Optical cable into your Denon should be fine. If you want a good USB DAC recommendation, then try one of THESE. Don't be put off by the price or size, it has been tested favourably against a Benchmark DAC 1.

Optical provides the benefit of galvanic isolation, but this might not be an issue for you, in which case USB would be fine.

EDIT: I think you'd be surprised at how good your sund card is just connecting via the analogue output.

My creative usb soundcard?

Was about to buy the dac but when i pressed the purchase button and i lost the connection to the site.

On a danish web site they told me a dac for what is equal to 113 -170£ isn't worth buying to upgrade the sound from my cheap 227£ reciver (denon DRA-F109) . Whats your opinion on that statement? I mean denon isn't just a manufactury of awarage mini hifi systems at a affordable price, the are one of the best like with the D-M38DAB and D-M39DAB

What would you recomend med to get first the Epiphany Acoustic 24 bit Miniature dac or the 155 IsoAcoustic speakerstands?

http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/products-page/dacs/e-dac-24bit-miniature-usb-dac/

http://www.isoacoustics.com/isol8r155.php?id=speaker%20stands%20studio%20monitor%20isolation

 

[Overdose]

Personally I would not worry too much about the DAC. Try different connections with your existing equipment to see if a DAC might be of benefit.

If you feel that you have to get a DAC, then the Epiphany DAC is well worth consideration, but there might be another supplier offering a similar DAC, as it is THIS item, but in a retail case.

 

[gasolin]

I have this soundcard with a dac and digital i/o if i use it. will it be an advantage over just a digital cable from my motherboard to my reciver? (have to try it) i will be using a digital cable into the soundcard and a isoda ha-08-psr from my soundcard and into my reciver.

http://uk.store.creative.com/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x-fi-hd/1-19829.aspx

Any one who know the quality of the dac?

 

[hayhal]

Just thought I'd throw this in - I have Audioengine A2 speakers next to my laptop in my basement.
After seeing a (very) few reports on the ELE DAC (D01), I bought one on ebay for about $16.

I thought the Audioengines sounded pretty darn good already. However, I watched part of a samurai movie on
youtube the other night with the ELE connected to the USB port and then to the Audioengines.
It blew my mind. I was listening at low levels at night. I couldn't believe the clarity and the separation of the sounds.
The bass was unreal. Not super low to feel in your bones, just absolutely amazing for my ears.
Although I knew the bass from the A2's was really nice, I couldn't believe the A2's could
produce bass like this. I was emersed in the movie like one would be at a theater.

I still can't get over the difference in the already great sound.
I'm not knocking my Schitt DAC, it sounds fantastic on my pc upstairs with Equator D5's.
But, if anyone wants to try an insanely priced DAC, you might want to take a gamble on this one.
I already ordered another ELE DAC. It's pretty small, (about 1/2" sq by 2" long) so you can carry one
with you to use with your pc and earphones.
I think this was the best bargain in hi fi I've had since the T-Amp.

 

[cheeseboy]

Using my usb soundblaster titanium hd hifi usb souncard, either with optical cable or usb from my computer,then to my reciver an optical cable or rca?

seriously, before you spend any more money, try going from the analogue outs on your usb soundcard to the amp. so it would be pc>usb cable>usb soundblaster>analague out>amp

All this talk about dacs and soundcards are very confusing. the pc see's a "dac" as a soundcard, so in it's eyes, it's the same thing. The DAC's in the sb titanium hd's are pretty good actually.

 

[MajorFubar]

Check my signature. That's the way to do it imo.

 

[Insomnus]

I'm currently using a Berhenger USB adapter with an optical output (£15-20 on EBay) into a Shek d1 DAC, then through a Quad 34 pre and 303 power amps into a pair of Focal Aria 906's. It sounds extremely good considering it's only my PC as the source. I have to say I'm very impressed with that DAC's ability to make it sound so smooth. Spotify is now well worth listening to.

 

[Alec]

You seem pretty happy to me, I'd just carry on listening.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

I am curios how to get the best sound from my computer and in to my Denon DRA-F109 (most noise free an high end sound)

I am using an optical cable from my motherboard into the reciver, is it this the best way?

Using my usb soundblaster titanium hd hifi usb souncard, either with optical cable or usb from my computer,then to my reciver an optical cable or RCA

Optical cable into your Denon should be fine. If you want a good USB DAC recommendation, then try one of THESE. Don't be put off by the price or size, it has been tested favourably against a Benchmark DAC 1.

Optical provides the benefit of galvanic isolation, but this might not be an issue for you, in which case USB would be fine.

EDIT: I think you'd be surprised at how good your sund card is just connecting via the analogue output.

+1

 

[fr0g]

jplay is a waste of money. If you are playing only one sound source from windows, it is bit perfect Foobar is free and sounds exactly the same

 

[ellisdj]

JPLay seems to get a lot of flac when you google it - this is all unfair and unjust in my opinion. There is more to bit perfect playback just like one hifi source doesnt sound the same as the next even though its playing the same song or maybe even disc. And the new JPlay 5.2 is incredible.

If you actually do some proper reading about JPLay is used by a lot reviewers of a lot of places now as its deemed the best way to get music from a PC. Or just look through the amount of new people signing up.

Ask Scott at Computer Audio Design (best sound at the Bristol show last year running JPlay), Or Jon Kenny or countless others what they think.

It was only after adding JPlay to a PC audio system that I though a PC sounded anything like a decent streaming solution.

That is why I said they let you try it for free so you can hear it for yourlsef for as long as you want. Like anything needs setting up properly

Settings Ultra Stream, Buffers set to direct link (if the pc will let you).

Then you need to go into registry and edit Ultrastream buffer size - that needs to be a low as possible 20 being the lowest without causing errors on playback. All instructions are on the forum

Other things to consider

5. PC Optimisation - you need as many services shut down as physically possible - see Computer Audio Design for a guide/ script to do this in win 8 or win 8.1. This makes a HUGE difference to the sound of an audio PC.

6. Bios optimisation - correct cpu/ ram speed and voltages are essential to get the best sound. As is disabling most other things in the bios as well - this makes a Huge Difference as well!

 

[ellisdj]

I have just read the words - only a pc as a source, that is extremely misguided - a pc source is capable of amazing sound

Back to the op - best sound from pc

1. JPLAY - best hifi £100 you will ever spend and free to try

2. JPlay forum is a well of knowledge already plus it has people who are pushing the boundaries to get help from

3. Think power - how does your pc get power - how does your soundcard get power ? Quality of power is the most important factor - why Naim sell so many power supplies and upgrades!

I can heartily recommend Sean @Custom hifi cables he makesa great Linear

4. Paul Pang - he is leading way in many regards to building best sounding audio pc. His products are very reasonable for their excellent performance

 

[ellisdj]

Best Sound Munich High End Show 2012 acording to this press was the room running JPLay 4.2 et al

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/highend2012/highend2012_roy_2.htm

5.2 is a revelation in comparison to 4.2 as well

 

[cheeseboy]

Other things to consider

5. PC Optimisation - you need as many services shut down as physically possible - see Computer Audio Design for a guide/ script to do this in win 8 or win 8.1. This makes a HUGE difference to the sound of an audio PC.

no it doesn't. Unless you can give me some examples?

6. Bios optimisation - correct cpu/ ram speed and voltages are essential to get the best sound. As is disabling most other things in the bios as well - this makes a Huge Difference as well!

again, no it isn't. Telling people to mess around with the voltages in the bios is the quickest way to get somebody to brick their computer. :roll:

 

[ellisdj]

Cheeseboy I am sorry mate - your miles off in terms of whats achievable from a pc source if you think not having services shut down makes no difference. You hev obviously never tried running one of the scripts from Scott at Computer Audio Design

There are revelationary to how the computer sounds - and I owe the guy at leats one beer for sharing his hard work for free

http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/computer-setup/

Again to reiterate Best Sound at the Bristol Show 2013 - small 1 man band beat off the competition from all the big boys that were there!

I could sit you down and in 1 minute prove that shutting down 3 additonal services when already the majority of services of windows are already shut down and how much of a difference that makes to the sound!

Altering voltages and speeds of ram / cpu makes a massive difference as well - I could prove that as well in 1 minute.

I have an i7 2700k cpu - I run it at 1.6ghz no turbo or hyperthreading. That sounds different to it running at stock 3.5Ghz or with a turbo.

Ram is the same - and if you get it combined right i.e. cpu speed / ram speed and the voltages as low as possible - without causing problems or the sound to worsen then thats when it sounds best.

If you go on the JPlay forums there are quite a few people that concur to this, this was not something I discovered, I have learnt from the people on the forum