How to combine stereo and surround sound in one AV system

[What Hi-Fi?]

Connecting a stereo amplifier to an AV receiver for an all-conquering music and movie system isn't as hard as you might expect.

How to combine stereo and surround sound in one AV system : Read more

 

[Piet Steyn]

Hi Tom...interesting article. This is an issue that gets more and more important as houses and apartments are getting smaller and not a lot of people can have a dedicated hifi room anymore...so hifi and movies must share the lounge.
Question I have is.... what about the option of using a processor and outboard power amplifier(s)? Most freestanding AV processors have a pure-direct mode (or similar). One can then use (as an example) a 5 channel power amp for surround duties, paired with a stereo amp of higher quality for front L & R.... achieving similar results? Or not?

 

[HomeFi]

Thanks very much for this article. I've read it with interest because I'd like to upgrade my home theater equipment. I have a Yamaha 2005 AVR that's bottom end and an old receiver with a 200watt amp that I could bridge to. The receiver still sounds excellent to my aging ears (a Carver). I'd like to be able to build out a 5.4 Atmos configuration. The Yamaha is too old if I'm not mistaken so I'm thinking of buying a 7.1 AVR and bridging to the Carver to drive the main front speakers and to free up two amps in the new AVR to achieve the .4. I'm not confidant of being able to do this with say a Marantz 5014 even though it has pre outs. Is it possible to give more specific details like photos of setups and menu screens that would make this configuration possible? I'd like to save some money and buy a 7.1 AVR instead of a 9.1 and have money left over for new speakers, a streamer, etc.

 

[ryhaigh]

Thank you for writing on this. I have a related issue that I was hoping someone could give me some insight on.

The good news is my system is 2.0 but you will see the concepts in this article are still on point.

My primary audio setup in one room is my PC server to Arcam IrDAC to Arcam FMJ A19 integrated audio amplifier to 2 KEF LS50s (2.0 only)

Recently we have had to consolidate space and I am now trying to combine AVR and Audio into one media setup.

I have a Marantz NR1609 Integrated that I use for AVR (which also has the pre-outs like those mentioned in the article)

My plan is to run all AV sources into the Marantz, set it on pure direct, and then send audio via the Pre-out to the A19 and then to the speakers for all audio (AV and my original music purposes).

Obviously, I will be bypassing the Amp stage of the Marantz, but my concern is getting another Preamp stage that I don't need from the A19, as the A19 does not have fixed audio for the AV input like those in the article.

My general concern is adding more noise to the signal when playing content originating from the AVR. Any way to bypass the A19 preamp in this context.

Soo.. 2 questions:
1) How should I balance the volume between amplifiers? (ie. keep one fixed and use other to change listening volume etc)
2) Assuming I am inserted additional noise in the chain, in terms of sound quality, am I better off running all video signals through the Marantz AVR and then just using RCA connectors for audio from each device directly to the Arcam Stereo Amp? (Note: I guess I will also have to change TV from toslink to RCA with an adapter as it doesn't have RCA out)

Thanks in advance!

 

[StephanWoltering]

Connecting a stereo amplifier to an AV receiver for an all-conquering music and movie system isn't as hard as you might expect.

How to combine stereo and surround sound in one AV system : Read more

Nice description. Right now I am in the process the reset my equipment.
Coming from an Studio DAC environment with 4 active loudspeakers (2 front, 2 back) , a sub connected to a center bar connected via HDMI to my TV, I am considering an AV receiver like Denon AVR 3600. I have a MacMini as an iTunes music server connected to the DAC (firewire) and an AppleTV connected to the TV (HDMI). I also like the idea of Apple Airplay and to use a proper Headset to listen to Hifi and not to disturb anyone watching TV.
Now my question.

A denon AVR-X3600 does not need a separate Stereo amplifier to achieve a top hifi (2x 2 active loudspeakers for Stereo) or a Dolby Surround 5.1 (4 active speakers at front & rear plus center and sub) or what would be your recommendation for a setup and why?

 

[soundtom]

Hi,

I have a turntable, an emotiva a100 mini-x stereo amp, a phono preamp, an Onkyo HTR590 receiver, two Paradigm Titan v.3 speakers, a Paradigm sub, and two Onkyo surround speakers that came with the receiver. I see in the receiver’s manual (https://www.manualsdir.com/manuals/205976/onkyo-ht-r590.html?page=15) that there is a “CD IN,” input, and it mentions a phono preamp, but it does not say anything about bypassing the receiver’s built-in amplifier. There’s also an AUX IN on the front of the receiver. Can I use this receiver for this setup? I believe I have another receiver somewhere else, but I’m not sure of the model. It may be a Yahama. Thanks for any help!

Edit: I see this quote in the article, but I'm not sure what it means: :If you’re set on using an amp that doesn’t have a dedicated AV input, you can do so by setting the volume control at the same level whenever you want to use it in tandem with your surround amp. That’s a more fiddly and less precise way of doing things, but it works just fine." Does this mean I need to adjust both volume knobs at the same time exactly the same increment? Also, the Yamaha receiver is too old and doesn't have HDMI.

Edit: does it mean to leave the stereo volume set and only adjust the volume on the receiver?

 

[Beelzebobby]

Thanks for this article, as I’m looking at moving from a 2.1 system to a 5.1 system. But one thing puzzles me about this setup: if I were to buy an AV receiver and plug my subwoofer into that, then won’t I lose the sub when listening to a stereo source on my 2.1 receiver?

 

[soundtom]

For anyone who’s curious, what I ended up doing is purchasing an amp switch. I could really only find one made by SPECIALTY-AV. Not sure if they have a patent on it or what. I do lose the sub with this setup, as I don’t have the sub plugged into the stereo amp. There is another rca output I could use for the sub, but I’m not sure if this would give me a true subwoofer level low output...

 

[Beelzebobby]

For anyone who’s curious, what I ended up doing is purchasing an amp switch. I could really only find one made by SPECIALTY-AV. Not sure if they have a patent on it or what. I do lose the sub with this setup, as I don’t have the sub plugged into the stereo amp. There is another rca output I could use for the sub, but I’m not sure if this would give me a true subwoofer level low output...

Good question. So you’re wondering if you can use the additional RCA connector on the switch to plug into the sub, and be able to use the sub with either amp. Is the switch powered? If it’s passive, I would think it will just pass through whatever signal is sent by the amp.

 

[soundtom]

Good question. So you’re wondering if you can use the additional RCA connector on the switch to plug into the sub, and be able to use the sub with either amp. Is the switch powered? If it’s passive, I would think it will just pass through whatever signal is sent by the amp.

So I actually meant that there’s an additional output on the stereo amp that I could use for the sub, not the switch. The switch is not powered.

 

[Beelzebobby]

So I actually meant that there’s an additional output on the stereo amp that I could use for the sub, not the switch. The switch is not powered.

Let me see if I understand this. Your sub is currently directly connected to your AV amp. And you have an available output on your stereo amp, but your not sure if it’s a low level output. But even if it is, I still don’t see how this helps you. From what I’ve read, even if you have multiple inputs on your sub, it’s dangerous to connect it to 2 amps. See this thread:

Connecting two amps to one subwoofer.

Hello, I have the following: Sony Str-da3600es for films Marantz SR5023 amp for music I want to connect both of these to a Kef Kube2 sub. I have rigged this up with a splitter (Y leads) connected to both the sony and marantz sub outputs and then connected by a single lead to the sub. Is...

www.avforums.com

 

[soundtom]

Yes. Okay, I will just leave the turntable and stereo amp configured without the sub. Thanks.

 

[bmahe]

Great article, really helpful, thanks.

I want to do exactly that, with either the Uniti Atom or the NAD M10, I checked both units and I see how I can do HT bypass with the atom but it's unclear how we can do that with the NAD. I see two line inputs in the back of the unit, but after reading the user manual I see no way of bypassing the volume control. So, I don't think there is a real HT bypass on the NAD.
Am I missing something?

Thanks

 

[izmask]

Hello, one question about Denon PMA-2500NE. Is possible switch direct input for HT bypass via remote control ? For example Marantz PM8006 have button on main unit only and this one must be pressed 3 seconds for switch ( ithink, I dont have this one). At this time I have Onkyo A-9150 and I can switch via RC + Enter button, also on RC. Im thinking about PMA-2500NE, but without possibility use HT bypass with RC, no.

 

[dhp]

Hi ,

I have a similar type set up to the one described in the article. However i set up slightly differently . I have essentially 2 systems. All my hifi components are connected to an audiolab 8000c pre amplifier. This in turn goes to my av amplifier , an Onkyo Rz 8400 via the CD input . All my speakers are connected to the av amp and my front two speakers are bi-ampted . I'm using a rel sub connected to the av amp using both hi and low connections.

The av amp has a 'pure audio' funtion which switches off all the video and audio dsp functions. In this mode the av amp becomes a power amp for the hifi components being fed into my audiolab preamp.

It's easy to set up and works a great!😊. With my left and right speakers bi-amped. The detail , warmth and soundstage produced make for a very enjoyable listen. I have a turntable, CD recorder, mini disc player and cassette deck. All work perfectly and with 3 tape loops on the audiolab I can record and make music complications on either CD, Mini disc, and even cassette ( although I use the cassette deck just for playback !) Lol. On the av side I have full support up to Dolby atmos/Dts X .

Hi Tom...interesting article. This is an issue that gets more and more important as houses and apartments are getting smaller and not a lot of people can have a dedicated hifi room anymore...so hifi and movies must share the lounge.
Question I have is.... what about the option of using a processor and outboard power amplifier(s)? Most freestanding AV processors have a pure-direct mode (or similar). One can then use (as an example) a 5 channel power amp for surround duties, paired with a stereo amp of higher quality for front L & R.... achieving similar results? Or not?

 

[dhp]

I forgot to mention. On the music side I'm using an audiolab 6000 cdt as the main CD player going into a Cambridge Audio Dac. 😊

 

[cgnavarro]

Nice. I agree. I have a similar setup. I had a Denon AVC X3700H with two Audessey setups, one for multichannel (MC) and one for stereo. Then, I recently added a dedicated stereo amp (Yamaha A-S2200) where I connected both the turntable (Project 6 SB Perspex), as it has a very capable phono preamp, and the BR/SACD player (Pioneer UDP-LX500) by analogue RCA (so I use internal DAC of Pioneer for stereo CD/SACD).


For MC I connected the Denon by preout to the Yamaha and this works as MC DAC for the Pioneer (connected by two HDMIs, one for audio+video -i.e. films- and the other exclusively for audio, i.e. multichannel BR-A and SACDs).

The Yamaha feeds a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 6 as front speakers. The Denon, a Monitor Audio Silver Center, a Klipsch SPL100 SW and a pair of KEF-C30 as surround speakers).

The result is perfect for listening to stereo (just using the Yamaha), as the A-S2200 is far away a better amplifier) or MC (using the Denon as AVR and the Yamaha just as power amplifier for front speakers). Moreover, you can use Audissey for calibration for MC including the stereo amp (and you can set and save different setups for MC music or films, for instance).

Moreover, using a 12V trigger cable, when I turn on the AVR, the Yamaha automatically turns on and changes to the "Main in" input and, then I switch off the AVR, it turns off, but.... if after a film I want to play an LP and I change the input to phono, then I can swith off the AVR and the Yamaha is still on. Extremely useful...

I think ths is the most useful setup for enjoying the best of both world (HIFI and Home Theater) with only a set of -good- speakers. The drawback? You'll have to spend more money in the amplification part...about 3.500-4.000 € but, in fact is the cost of a good AVR (Anthem, NAD...).

Other advantage, AVRs tend to have a shorter life (new digital formats, 4K/8K, DSPs or audio systems as DD, DTS, ATMOS, etc.) so, if you buy a particularly good AVR for music (3.000-5.000 $), in some years (4-5) it will be obsolete.

Thus, IMHO, invest your main budget (2/3-3/4) in a very good analogue amplifier, that will last decades, and less money in the AVR, that you'll be able to change every 4-5 years...

 

[dhp]

Nice. I agree. I have a similar setup. I had a Denon AVC X3700H with two Audessey setups, one for multichannel (MC) and one for stereo. Then, I recently added a dedicated stereo amp (Yamaha A-S2200) where I connected both the turntable (Project 6 SB Perspex), as it has a very capable phono preamp, and the BR/SACD player (Pioneer UDP-LX500) by analogue RCA (so I use internal DAC of Pioneer for stereo CD/SACD).


For MC I connected the Denon by preout to the Yamaha and this works as MC DAC for the Pioneer (connected by two HDMIs, one for audio+video -i.e. films- and the other exclusively for audio, i.e. multichannel BR-A and SACDs).

The Yamaha feeds a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 6 as front speakers. The Denon, a Monitor Audio Silver Center, a Klipsch SPL100 SW and a pair of KEF-C30 as surround speakers).

The result is perfect for listening to stereo (just using the Yamaha), as the A-S2200 is far away a better amplifier) or MC (using the Denon as AVR and the Yamaha just as power amplifier for front speakers). Moreover, you can use Audissey for calibration for MC including the stereo amp (and you can set and save different setups for MC music or films, for instance).

Moreover, using a 12V trigger cable, when I turn on the AVR, the Yamaha automatically turns on and changes to the "Main in" input and, then I switch off the AVR, it turns off, but.... if after a film I want to play an LP and I change the input to phono, then I can swith off the AVR and the Yamaha is still on. Extremely useful...

I think ths is the most useful setup for enjoying the best of both world (HIFI and Home Theater) with only a set of -good- speakers. The drawback? You'll have to spend more money in the amplification part...about 3.500-4.000 € but, in fact is the cost of a good AVR (Anthem, NAD...).

Other advantage, AVRs tend to have a shorter life (new digital formats, 4K/8K, DSPs or audio systems as DD, DTS, ATMOS, etc.) so, if you buy a particularly good AVR for music (3.000-5.000 $), in some years (4-5) it will be obsolete.

Thus, IMHO, invest your main budget (2/3-3/4) in a very good analogue amplifier, that will last decades, and less money in the AVR, that you'll be able to change every 4-5 years...

That is a great set up.

 

[dhp]

That is a great set up.

 

[dhp]

I can certainly see the benefits of having a quality audio amplifier. I think once the audiolab pre amplifier ceases to function I'll follow the path you have taken. Right now I'm more concerned with shrinking availability of 4k blu ray players 🙄

 

[cgnavarro]

I can certainly see the benefits of having a quality audio amplifier. I think once the audiolab pre amplifier ceases to function I'll follow the path you have taken. Right now I'm more concerned with shrinking availability of 4k blu ray players 🙄

Yes, in fact there are not many options, Panasonic DP-UB9000 (but is NOT SACD capable) or the new Reavon models (UBR-X100/UBR-X200) that can play SACD (these latter might be comparable with the already unavailable Pioneer UP-LX500/800). If you can find an outlet Pioneer, I strongly recommend (they were about 1,000/2,500 € ). Pioneer models have only stereo DACs and RCA outputs. On the contrary, Reavon UBR-X200 has 8-channel DAC and RCA outputs at around 1,800 €...)

 

[dhp]

Yes, in fact there are not many options, Panasonic DP-UB9000 (but is NOT SACD capable) or the new Reavon models (UBR-X100/UBR-X200) that can play SACD (these latter might be comparable with the already unavailable Pioneer UP-LX500/800). If you can find an outlet Pioneer, I strongly recommend (they were about 1,000/2,500 € ). Pioneer models have only stereo DACs and RCA outputs. On the contrary, Reavon UBR-X200 has 8-channel DAC and RCA outputs at around 1,800 €...)

I currently Have a Panasonic UB900 . I use an Old Pioneer LX55 DVD player for DVD Audio and SACD. I did have a Cambridge CXU universal player , (that is out for repair and I have my fingers crossed they can repair it)

I have been checking out the Raevon UBR X-100 , but apparently its not a universal Player . To get full DVD-Audio / SACD support it would be the Reavon UBR-X200 at 1499 . I had mapped out getting a Pioneer LX500 but they seem to have been discontinued

 

[cgnavarro]

Yes, it's a pity because I think the LX500 was in the sweet spot, covering the gap we had when Oppo discontinued their universal players. In fact, my next objective is a dedicated SACD (maybe a Denon 1600/2500 or Yamaha 1xxx/2xxx) in order to use the Pioneer only for video and multichannel music (it must work a lot of years...)