How much volume to you use when using a TT

[Mike_Schmidt]

so my scenario goes getting my Rega P5 back today with the Exact cart but from my cd player which at 1000 would cause hearing damage from being so loud I have to go to 1100 on my TT just to get some volume? What gives, it just feels like something is not there

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

Sounds like you need a phono stage in the chain. The TT output is much much lower than CD and needs to be amplified up to line level prior to going to the amplifier. Have a look at the Graham Slee models.

Nick

 

[Fenton Beasley]

TheHomeCinemaCentre:
Sounds like you need a phono stage in the chain. The TT output is much much lower than CD and needs to be amplified up to line level prior to going to the amplifier. Have a look at the Graham Slee models.

Nick

It might just be my set up but the inclusion of my Gram Amp 2 Communicator betwixt Amp and Rega Planer 3 adds not a jot to the output volume. It makes it sound great though.

 

[Anonymous]

TheHomeCinemaCentre:
Sounds like you need a phono stage in the chain. The TT output is much much lower than CD and needs to be amplified up to line level prior to going to the amplifier. Have a look at the Graham Slee models.

Nick

The OP has a phono stage, the LP3, though it does sound like there's a problem with it. Any chance of checking the setup with the dealer?

 

[chebby]

The Rega MM cartridges (Mike mentions getting a new Exact) have a very high output at 6.8 - 7.2mV so yes it sounds like something is wrong with the phono pre-amp or it's settings.

I am assuming Mike has already moved the output from the phono preamp between a couple of line level inputs on the amp to see if the problem moves with it (or not) and checked any settings etc.

My TT/phono preamp gives a 'slightly' lower volume than other sources but only needs a very slight tweak on the control. (5 or 10 percent maybe)

I can see the Moon LP3 has a lot of user adjustable settings going on...

£ End-user adjustable impedance loading (100 and 47k ohms)

£ End-user adjustable capacitance loading (0 and 100pF)

£ End-user adjustable gain for moving magnet (40dB) & moving coil cartridges (60dB)

Assuming you have set the correct impedance and capacitance for a MM, then it looks to me like you need to adjust the gain. (40db for MM)

Here is the manual if you dont have it already...

http://www.simaudio.com/pdf/MOON_LP3_Manual.pdf

Good luck checking all the internal jumper settings are correct! (Don't they have switches in Canada?)

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

thanks guys I actually got rid of the rega phone mini, the Moon Phone and now went to a Rega fono and I have switched inputs and even interconnects from Wireworld Polaris 5 to Atlas questor as well. I had a new cartridge put on and my Parasound power puts out a easy 250 a side which for my Proacs is alot and more than needed so I need to be careful. What about internal wiring in the tonearm. It was rebalanced and placed at 1.75 grams tracked so I dont know what to say but hitting 1100 on my Parasound JC2 does trouble me. Any other ideas, and your all right and especially on the cartridge output which I believe is higher than my CD player.

 

[chebby]

Did they sell you the correct Rega Fono?

There are two versions each dedicated to MM or MC only.

Read the box details and the back of the Rega Fono to see if all the details match. The dealer may have packed the wrong one or sold you the wrong version.

The back should identify it with an MM or MC label....

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

Yes it is MM I checked but Im also going to check my power supply and put the stock back on

 

[chebby]

Mike_Schmidt:Yes it is MM I checked but Im also going to check my power supply and put the stock back on

Yes I would! (See big clearly printed warning on pic above. It is not just voltage but polarity that is affected by using a non-stock PSU.)

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

I did that to, now Im completly lost

 

[chebby]

I think I have found something.

Your Cyrus 8SE output is 2.1V and the output of your Rega Fono is 3mV for every 200mV output.

Your Rega Exact cartridge punts out approx 7mV (6.8 - 7.2 mV is quoted by Rega). So that means your Rega Fono MM signal output voltage (as seen by the amp) is around 2.3 x 200mV or 0.46 V

In other words, your CDP is putting out over 4 times the signal voltage level of your phono preamp.

The 'fault' is not the Cartridge or the phono preamp but the very high output from the CD player.

As an example, the Rega Apollo CD player has a signal output voltage of 0.5V

This is not really a problem as such. You probably notice the signal is even lower than from your old Rega Fono-Mini.

It is. The input sensitivity of the Fono-Mini was 2mV for 200mV output so with a Rega MM cartridge of around 7mV your amp would have 'seen' approx 3.5 x 200mV or 0.7V (instead of the 0.46V you are getting now from the Exact/Fono MM)

Anyway, none of this is a problem. 'Line levels' of 0.46 or 0.5V or even as high as the 2.1V from your 8SE are all within normal range. (My Naim CD5i puts out 2.0V)

You will just need to get used to having the volume up a bit louder for one source than another.

(The inputs of your Parasound have another 14db of gain so this can make the difference seem greater.)

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

Wow thank you very much for that and I stand by what you have just said. I just worry about blowing my speakers not from volume but from wattage. What a difference the PSU makes, where before with the stock power its clean not much for pops etc but with the PSU everything is alot clearer much more of a differnece than the PSX from cyrus makes.
How do I get a jump in volume now or is this how it is.
Thanks Mike

 

[chebby]

Mike_Schmidt:How do I get a jump in volume now or is this how it is.
Thanks Mike

You could take the opposite approach and try RCA attenuators for the CD player connections to bring it's levels down a little.

Over here they are not too expensive. (£40) The lowest level of attenuation available (10db) will probably be enough to even things out.

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

For Sale one Cyrus 8SE with PSX, plays perfect no marks taking offers LOL!!!!

 

[chebby]

No need to be drastic!

The attenuators could improve the sound from the CD player/amp combination.

 

[Anonymous]

wouldn't attenuating the cd player lead to more risk of the too much wattage problem?

Mike, buy yourself a moon cd1, its great and with the lp3 you shouldn't notice too much of a difference.

I've got the tt volume about the same as with the cd player.

 

[chebby]

fast eddie:wouldn't attenuating the cd player lead to more risk of the too much wattage problem?

No. If you attenuate (lower) the CD output level then it brings it more into line with the level of the turntable/phono preamp so there would be no 'shocks' (and panicky lunges for the volume control) when switching from TT to CD.

(Oh, the Moon CD1 analogue RCA output level is 2.0V compared to the Cyrus 8SE's 2.1V so Mike would still have about the same difference in output levels between CD and TT.)

 

[Anonymous]

i was actually just hinking that i'm listening to music lower tonight than when i last played a cd so thats why its the same level!

with regard the wattage, i thought Mike meant that he was worried at playing the tt at a higher volume on the amp, but then my knowledge of electricity etc is generally: Dont touch any wires if it's plugged in.

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

What I worry about was cranking up the volume to high on the pre amp causing speaker damage due to pushing more power. It just boggles me that Im at 1100 with the TT and 1000 loudly with the CD Player

 

[Anonymous]

Mike

I've some 'Goldenjack' attenuators I can send you for a tryout - they are -10Db so will be adequate for a test. If they work great, if not - flog them on eBay.ca!

Let me know via our TA comms channel

.

 

[Anonymous]

On their way Mike. Worth a try!

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

thanks, well see how it works.