How much to spend on ceiling speakers

[FunkyMonkey]

I need 4 ceiling speakers to complete and complement my 7 tannoy ear level speakers in order to create a 7.1.4 Atmos system.

How much do I need to spend? Ceiling speakers seem to range from a few quid to a few hundred quid.

What shall i consider please?

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

I used Yamaha NS-IC800 8-inch concentrics costing between $100 and $200 a pair depending on when and where I got them.

Look at how easy it is to fit the speakers and how they'll cope with insulation etc.

 

[bigboss]

Tannoy CVS6 is an excellent option for you.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Both great suggestions. One is an 8 inch the other a 6. Should I go for the bigger speaker or not necessarily so?

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Mainly because I could for much the same price as 6-inchers.

Atmos speakers are for effect more than substance but 8-inchers will probably move more air.

I would look for units that have concentric but pivoting tweeters, are well built, easy to fit and secure once fitted, and are designed to cope with insulation and dust build-up.

Technically you should box in your In-Ceilings as this helps retain the fire rating of your ceiling, will stop insulation clogging up the speakers, stop the wee beasties eating them, and ensure there is always free air around the crossovers to stop then overheating. Boxes also push the sound down into the room, rather than letting it escape into the void. My media room has an attic above, so I simply knocked up some plywood boxes (no prizes for my woodwork) and glued them over the holes, on top the plasterboard. If you don't have that luxury you can buy ready-made steel or plastic cans on Amazon, eBay, etc., but they can be unnecessarily expensive.

The only criticism I have of my Yamahas is that they use sprung bare wire terminals, not screw-downs, although they will also accept banana plugs.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Mainly because I could for much the same price as 6-inchers.

Atmos speakers are for effect more than substance but 8-inchers will probably move more air.

I would look for units that have concentric but pivoting tweeters, are well built, easy to fit and secure once fitted, and are designed to cope with insulation and dust build-up.

Technically you should box in your In-Ceilings as this helps retain the fire rating of your ceiling, will stop insulation clogging up the speakers, stop the wee beasties eating them, and ensure there is always free air around the crossovers to stop then overheating. Boxes also push the sound down into the room, rather than letting it escape into the void. My media room has an attic above, so I simply knocked up some plywood boxes (no prizes for my woodwork) and glued them over the holes, on top the plasterboard. If you don't have that luxury you can buy ready-made steel or plastic cans on Amazon, eBay, etc., but they can be unnecessarily expensive.

The only criticism I have of my Yamahas is that they use sprung bare wire terminals, not screw-downs, although they will also accept banana plugs.

Thanks for all the advice. I am going to practice on some spare board I may have lying around.Mine will be into the roof rafters as my cinema room is single storey extension with a vaulted ceiling. Also, although I have never bought any speakers but Tannoy (aside from a Velodyne subwoofer), I am veering towards the Yamahas. They are 8 inchers rather than 6 inchers, are concentric in design, and have directable tweeters which may (or may not) be of benefit (as I have a vaulted ceiling that will direct the sound to the listening position anyway). The option is there. Also the retaining clips look really well designed. Thanks for the heads up, Sir Benedict.

 

[bigboss]

I went for 6-inch ones because that would what the box ceiling would accommodate. If you're able to direct the tweeters to listening position, that's ideal. Avoid the 4-inch speakers.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Use an electronic stud finder and map out your stud locations before you cut the holes. You can use a pad saw blade in a Stanley knife or just a regular Stanley knife to cut the holes. Use the template supplied with the speakers, push it against the ceiling, go around it with a pencil, then cut.

Make sure your hole edges are an inch clear of any stud.

You may need to "back off" the fixing lug screws a little so that the lugs rotate properly when you put the speakers in and start tightening the screws.

Other than those points, fitting is a doddle, which is why I have bought FIVE pairs of the Yamahas - three pairs in the media room, two more for the living room - and hope to buy ANOTHER FIVE pairs for Muzac service in other rooms in our McMansion.

(McMansion is the American slightly disparaging slang for a large, cheap, house. We have a 5600 sq. ft. home, but it's all wood and stucco. The philosophy is that you can't economically build houses to withstand tornadoes - and we had four touch down on the other side of Houston yesterday, so why bother with bricks and mortar? Four real bricks - I counted them - in our whole house, and they prop up the gas fire! Flip side is our six bed, five bath, three reception, study, media room, games room and upstairs and downstairs patio only cost half a million quid. Or the price of a broom cupboard in central London. I've got six in the media room ceiling because I started out with a 5.2.2 setup, expanded that to 7.2.4 but left the original two ceiling speakers in place so I didn't have to fix the holes that would have been left if I took them out. I need two pairs for the games room, one for the dining room, one for the master bedroom and a final pair for the master bathroom. Luckily, the builders pre-wired all of these for me.)

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Benedict Arnold, Sir, I love your casual yet effective use of British lingo.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Speak it like a native, don't I?

Which isn't surprising considering I was born in Bristol, grew up in the New Forest and didn't move to the US until I was 35 ;-)

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Speak it like a native, don't I?

Which isn't surprising considering I was born in Bristol, grew up in the New Forest and didn't move to the US until I was 35 ;-)

Ah I see. I thought you were just entertaining the natives.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

I have decided to get the yamahas. They will go into a vaulted ceiling with roof over. Therefore thinking of getting some enclosures.

Do I need them and if so is there a budget option?

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Enclosures maintain the fire rating of your ceiling and in the unlikely event a speaker shorts out should stop it setting fire to the house. They keep bugs out, stop any insulation or cob webs gumming up the speakers and maintain air around the crossover, helping to keep it cool. Finally they help push the sound down into the room rather than letting it escape into the ceiling / roof void.

So yes, speaker enclosures are highly advisable, but don't overdo it on price.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

PS I made mine from 1/2 inch plywood as square boxes about 15 inches square and 4 inches deep. My media room has an attic above so I was able to glue these directy to the top of the ceiling plasterboard over the speakers. No acoustic science involved, no precision measurements and certainly no prizes for my woodwork either.

There are loads the choose from ready made on Amazon, but you'll have to buy and check they're size-compatible with your speakers. Cheap cake baking tins epoxied over the speaker workings (with a hole added for your speaker cable) might work just as well.

 

[bigboss]

I have decided to get the yamahas. They will go into a vaulted ceiling with roof over. Therefore thinking of getting some enclosures.

Do I need them and if so is there a budget option?

It is a legal requirement to maintain fire rating as far as I'm aware.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Because the ceiling is vaulted, I have Celotex insulation in the spce between plasterboard and roof tiles. Therefore, I am getting ceiling mounted speakers, so this discussion is now moot. Thanks for advice and I hope others find it helpful.

 

[Feral]

Because the ceiling is vaulted, I have Celotex insulation in the spce between plasterboard and roof tiles. Therefore, I am getting ceiling mounted speakers, so this discussion is now moot. Thanks for advice and I hope others find it helpful.

Yes indeed. I'm looking to move house soon and there is the prospect of asbestos in the ceilings which were artexed. On the plus side this looks like an opportunity to install ceiling speakers and run the cables if the ceilings need to come down (also to install LED downlighting). The thing for me is that i upgraded to the Denon AVRX-3300 but i think that will only allow 2 ceiling speakers for 5.2.1. How much more effective is the 5.4.1 over 5.2.1 considering it is likely to mean replacing a recently purchased AVR?

 

[simonlewis]

Because the ceiling is vaulted, I have Celotex insulation in the spce between plasterboard and roof tiles. Therefore, I am getting ceiling mounted speakers, so this discussion is now moot. Thanks for advice and I hope others find it helpful.

How much more effective is the 5.4.1 over 5.2.1 considering it is likely to mean replacing a recently purchased AVR?

You have 4 subwoofers, i bet the house rumbles nicely.

 

[bigboss]

Because the ceiling is vaulted, I have Celotex insulation in the spce between plasterboard and roof tiles. Therefore, I am getting ceiling mounted speakers, so this discussion is now moot. Thanks for advice and I hope others find it helpful. 

Yes indeed.  I'm looking to move house soon and there is the prospect of asbestos in the ceilings which were artexed.  On the plus side this looks like an opportunity to install ceiling speakers and run the cables if the ceilings need to come down (also to install LED downlighting).  The thing for me is that i upgraded to the Denon AVRX-3300 but i think that will only allow 2 ceiling speakers for 5.2.1.  How much more effective is the 5.4.1 over 5.2.1 considering it is likely to mean replacing a recently purchased AVR?

You mean 5.1.4 and 5.1.2. 4 speakers are certainly more effective than 2, gives a sense of direction to sound (like a helicopter flying over the head).

 

[Feral]

You have 4 subwoofers, i bet the house rumbles nicely.

Doh! *WALL*

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

If you end up taking the ceiling down, put in wires for SIX overheads. You'll be future proofed then, and you can use the middle pair for ?.?.2 until you get a ?.?.4 (.6?) receiver.

 

[Feral]

Thanks

 

[FunkyMonkey]

If you end up taking the ceiling down, put in wires for SIX overheads. You'll be future proofed then, and you can use the middle pair for ?.?.2 until you get a ?.?.4 (.6?) receiver.

Unless he has a really long room, I mean really long, the geometry of 4 speakers will be enough for overhead. I.e. left right separation and front to rear separation

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

I totally agree. In fact in my 19 ft long HT room I think .4 is overdoing it as it is.

My point was, however, that of the guy was stuck with a .2 receiver and was fitting on, rather than in, ceilings,and if he was going to be taking down the ceiling anyway, the extra cost of running wires for a .6 setup is peanuts. And he could use the middle pair as .2s until he gets a .4 receiver.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

I totally agree. In fact in my 19 ft long HT room I think .4 is overdoing it as it is.

My point was, however, that of the guy was stuck with a .2 receiver and was fitting on, rather than in, ceilings,and if he was going to be taking down the ceiling anyway, the extra cost of running wires for a .6 setup is peanuts. And he could use the middle pair as .2s until he gets a .4 receiver.

Gotcha. Dur.