How important are demos?

[oldric_naubhoff]

Secluded area in the UK? Where's that, then?

Try Daley River or Katherine in the NT before you carry on about secluded.

and who's claiming I live in the UK?...

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Where do you live?

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Any examples? Normally I don't read seriously on ratings from magazines but comments from forum/discussion groups over the internet globally have much more weight when I decide what to buy. One needs to use some sense to filter out what had been written in the forum discussions. Some feedbacks are just unprofessional but a large number of them are quite experienced in audiophile.

I'm of the same opinion. some filtering out is needed but many people give sensible, useful and sincere opinions nevertheless.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Where do you live?

at the moment in Southern Ireland. despite being part of "Europe" (I use inverted commas cause as we know Ireland is in fact island so it's not part of Europe per se. here, it's my pedantic side ) it's really an empty country. it's certainly not as empty as NZ or Australia (or wherever you come from) but it is certainly a hi-fi desert. and I can certainly find more useful ways to spend my money than travelling to the UK just to audition another aluminium or MDF box. I let this chore done some other people. internet is indeed a great tool for doing shopping

 

[lindsayt]

What do you do when your dealer stocks 50 different flavours of the same thing?

50 slimline ported speakers.

50 solid state amps.

50 CD players.

50 belt drive turntables.

Hobson's Choice. Morton's Fork.

Fork that.

 

[chebby]

What do you do when your dealer stocks 50 different flavours of the same thing?

Ooh I know... cut & paste a triple spaced list of the same 40 year-old junk in answer to every single query?...

Balzak Simpery Grand Wardrobes

Goodmans Magistrate blanket chests

Celestion Ditton Route 66 coffins

Technishita SL-'something or other' (direct drive turntable converted from a lathe and mounted in a 3 ton obsidian plinth with a 35p tonearm from their 1977 parts bin) that only 12 people bought but you recommend as if 12,000 were available for £50 on ebay

EMpTy grey cabinet with massive dials on the front and a turntable on the top that tracks at about 5 kilos tracking force (designed for 1960s pirate radio ships).

Anything old, big, rusty and heavy that costs $500 in freight charges from the USA or requires removing windows or walls (or a crane) to get in the living room

 

[Anonymous]

The alternate to demoing is just getting a 5* system and sticking to that for a few months, and liking what you have, rather than trying to find faults in it and trying to get the next best thing. To a certain degree, you'll get used to what you have and like it.

 

[plastic penguin]

The alternate to demoing is just getting a 5* system and sticking to that for a few months, and liking what you have, rather than trying to find faults in it and trying to get the next best thing. To a certain degree, you'll get used to what you have and like it.

"Don't worry about the restaurant giving you a dodgy stomach, go there enough and you'll get used to it."

That is a very strange unless, of course, you have bottomless pockets.

 

[Excitable Boy]

If sound and picture quality are a major consideration then a demonstration is essential in my book.

Surely this is always the case ????

 

[lindsayt]

What do you do when your dealer stocks 50 different flavours of the same thing?

Ooh I know... cut & paste a triple spaced list of the same 40 year-old junk in answer to every single query?...

Chebby, why do you feel the need to mock? Do you want me to stop posting on this forum?

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

If sound and picture quality are a major consideration then a demonstration is essential in my book.

Surely this is always the case ????

This is far from the case, it may be on this and other forums but a great deal of customer buy because of a badge, appearance or budget.

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

There is no doubting the benefit of forum comments, if nothing it can alert you to products you may never have considered. Ultimately though if you are concerned about performance only you can decide what you like and that should be done in comparison.

You can go into any wine shop, pick a £20 bottle of wine and be happy with it. Try two and one will be more pleasing.

Please forgive my ignorance: If we are, as you know as a dealer, looking to spend hundreds or even thousands of pounds on upgrading or as a starter kit, so comparing it to a couple of bottles of wine is crass.

I did not intend to be crass, I was trying to show that if you do not compare things you can be quite happy with your first choice - hence people buying from review and then glowing about it when they are on-line.

Most wine at that price is good in the same way that if you buy a £1000 amplifier or a £1500 TV it will be good. Similarly with cars - plenty of people do not test drive the car they buy and if they do they rarely test drive the competition. How can you know that the seats are comfy unless you try two. As I see it you just wont know if it is the best for you without comparison, maybe I have the wrong end of the stick on this.

 

[plastic penguin]

There is no doubting the benefit of forum comments, if nothing it can alert you to products you may never have considered. Ultimately though if you are concerned about performance only you can decide what you like and that should be done in comparison.

You can go into any wine shop, pick a £20 bottle of wine and be happy with it. Try two and one will be more pleasing.

Please forgive my ignorance: If we are, as you know as a dealer, looking to spend hundreds or even thousands of pounds on upgrading or as a starter kit, so comparing it to a couple of bottles of wine is crass.

I did not intend to be crass, I was trying to show that if you do not compare things you can be quite happy with your first choice - hence people buying from review and then glowing about it when they are on-line.

Most wine at that price is good in the same way that if you buy a £1000 amplifier or a £1500 TV it will be good. Similarly with cars - plenty of people do not test drive the car they buy and if they do they rarely test drive the competition. How can you know that the seats are comfy unless you try two. As I see it you just wont know if it is the best for you without comparison, maybe I have the wrong end of the stick on this.

Mmmm, you need to try before purchasing, like the seats. As a reputable dealer I thought you'd be a keen supporter of shop and home demos.

A kit made up of award winners doesn't guarantee a wonderful sound. It can, in certain circumstances, sound 'orrible. This is something I've always advocated, unless, of course, the set-up was done in your living room.

 

[Inter_Voice]

A kit made up of award winners doesn't guarantee a wonderful sound. It can, in certain circumstances, sound 'orrible. This is something I've always advocated, unless, of course, the set-up was done in your living room.

+1

That is why I always stress the importance of treating your room with the right sound acoustics. It makes a lot of differences.

 

[FennerMachine]

I remember many moons ago a suggested system by What Hi Fi.

It had a 4 star pair of speakers.

The amp they used compensated for the reason the speakers where 4 star effectively making a 5 star system.

I actually tried the speakers for my self, I think they where Castle Howard S2.

To this day I sometimes regret not buying a pair they where that good, but I could not justify the expense at the time.

I have also demoed some 5 star products and wondered why they are 5 star.

It comes down to personal preference for how you want your music to sound, but within those requirements some products do a better job then others.

From personal experience I would say demo's are very important, home demo's maybe even more so.

 

[the record spot]

Mmmm, you need to try before purchasing, like the seats. As a reputable dealer I thought you'd be a keen supporter of shop and home demos.

He did mate. Nick's just pointing out that a lot of people buy blind, or on the strength of the brand, without necessarily sitting down and comparing, like for like, with other product.

 

[CnoEvil]

Mmmm, you need to try before purchasing, like the seats. As a reputable dealer I thought you'd be a keen supporter of shop and home demos.

He did mate. Nick's just pointing out that a lot of people buy blind, or on the strength of the brand, without necessarily sitting down and comparing, like for like, with other product.

I also suspect he is saying (and I could be wrong), that it is all too easy never to look outside the "usual suspects".....and very often, the answer lies a bit off the beaten track.
I refer to makes like Paradigm, Icon Audio, Sugden, Unison Research, Pure Sound, Lavardin, Pathos, Peachtree and Electrocompaniet....I suspect most people never try them, and in fact, may not even be aware of them. They may not be the answer, but (as Nick says) you will never know without a comparison.

 

[plastic penguin]

Mmmm, you need to try before purchasing, like the seats. As a reputable dealer I thought you'd be a keen supporter of shop and home demos.

He did mate. Nick's just pointing out that a lot of people buy blind, or on the strength of the brand, without necessarily sitting down and comparing, like for like, with other product.

I also suspect he is saying (and I could be wrong), that it is all too easy never to look outside the "usual suspects".....and very often, the answer lies a bit off the beaten track. I refer to makes like Paradigm, Icon Audio, Sugden, Unison Research, Pure Sound, Lavardin, Pathos, Peachtree and Electrocompaniet....I suspect most people never try them, and in fact, may not even be aware of them. They may not be the answer, but (as Nick says) you will never know without a comparison.

Looking at the "usual suspects" is fine: Don't forget I bought CD73T (Award winner), RS6 (5 star), Pro-ject Xpression 1 (award winner), but I never purchased these without a darn good dem with my existing equipment. And in the case of the speakers and CDP the shop let me home dem Rotel RCD-06 and MA GR10, in addition to a long and laborious shop dem.

Look how long I keep my gear: To me that speaks volumes (excuse the pun) because if I wasn't happy I'd take it straight back - no way would I live with something I'm less than 100% happy with.

 

[paradiziac]

If I couldn't home dem or return a purchase that didn't work out, I'd want to buy the gear at the same price as I could get for it on t'Bay...

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I also suspect he is saying (and I could be wrong), that it is all too easy never to look outside the "usual suspects".....and very often, the answer lies a bit off the beaten track. I refer to makes like Paradigm, Icon Audio, Sugden, Unison Research, Pure Sound, Lavardin, Pathos, Peachtree and Electrocompaniet....I suspect most people never try them, and in fact, may not even be aware of them. They may not be the answer, but (as Nick says) you will never know without a comparison.

You left out Wilson Benesch, Leben, Magnepan (don't explode, PP), Martin Logan, Bryston, Densen, Nottingham Analogue, T+A, Lavardin, Atoll, Hegel and many, many more.

 

[CnoEvil]

Looking at the "usual suspects" is fine: Don't forget I bought CD73T (Award winner), RS6 (5 star), Pro-ject Xpression 1 (award winner), but I never purchased these without a darn good dem with my existing equipment. And in the case of the speakers and CDP the shop let me home dem Rotel RCD-06 and MA GR10, in addition to a long and laborious shop dem.

Look how long I keep my gear: To me that speaks volumes (excuse the pun) because if I wasn't happy I'd take it straight back - no way would I live with something I'm less than 100% happy with.

I would say that you are starting to find out the merits of the "less usual suspects", with the purchase of the Leema and the exploration of the Totems.

 

[CnoEvil]

You left out Wilson Benesch, Leben, Magnepan (don't explode, PP), Martin Logan, Bryston, Densen, Nottingham Analogue, T+A, Lavardin, Atoll, Hegel and many, many more.

With the exception of Lavardin, you are correct....but my point was made none the less.

 

[Inter_Voice]

Just to add one point, if we can arrange a demo it is of couse ideal but in the real world it is not always possible to have a demo on a lot of not so propular products as the seller normally not stocking them up.

In my case I found it extremely diffficult to arrange an audition on a complete setup of Leema Tucana II, Spendor SA-1 and OPPO 83Nu edition for a demo. Eventually I bought all of them without audition based on my research on user feebacks and the outcome still fully met my expectation.

 

[plastic penguin]

Looking at the "usual suspects" is fine: Don't forget I bought CD73T (Award winner), RS6 (5 star), Pro-ject Xpression 1 (award winner), but I never purchased these without a darn good dem with my existing equipment. And in the case of the speakers and CDP the shop let me home dem Rotel RCD-06 and MA GR10, in addition to a long and laborious shop dem.

Look how long I keep my gear: To me that speaks volumes (excuse the pun) because if I wasn't happy I'd take it straight back - no way would I live with something I'm less than 100% happy with.

I would say that you are starting to find out the merits of the "less usual suspects", with the purchase of the Leema and the exploration of the Totems.

Ahem... finding out the merits of less usual suspects? Marantz ML 2060 tuner was a limited edition; couldn't find reviews when I first purchased nor since. Even contacting Marantz UK a few years ago, the archive had info on it but no reviews, yet it is still a cracking, albeit wrinkly looking, sounding piece of kit. I'd certainly put it up against any modern budget tuner... in fact have, about four years ago, and it fared very well.

Wharfedale E20s, ClearAudio Classic Wood Cartridge which gets totally ignored on here... there are many other products down the line which most mags ignored but sounded great.

Over to you, Cno...

 

[plastic penguin]

I also suspect he is saying (and I could be wrong), that it is all too easy never to look outside the "usual suspects".....and very often, the answer lies a bit off the beaten track. I refer to makes like Paradigm, Icon Audio, Sugden, Unison Research, Pure Sound, Lavardin, Pathos, Peachtree and Electrocompaniet....I suspect most people never try them, and in fact, may not even be aware of them. They may not be the answer, but (as Nick says) you will never know without a comparison.

You left out Wilson Benesch, Leben, Magnepan (don't explode, PP), Martin Logan, Bryston, Densen, Nottingham Analogue, T+A, Lavardin, Atoll, Hegel and many, many more.

No implosion or explosion. The only thing that riles me with you - sometimes - is you recommend products that aren't available in the UK or are way over a posters budget.