How do i get decent music from AV receiver? What Power Amps should I demo? My price limit is £800

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Hi,

How do i get good music from the Onk? I am mostly using my iPhone with uncompressed audio via an Onkyo dock - failing that CDs via the Denon Blu-Ray. All I can think of is to use the pre-outs and go to a seperate power amp for the front 2/3 channels as the Kef's should sound beautiful. Are there any other options? I dont use CDs much at all so not really looking at a standalone CD player. Any idea of what Power Amps to audition? I'm looking at a few namely the Quad 99, Naim NAP150X and Rega MAIA3 as they are all around the price range.

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Si

System is:-

Onkyo TX-NR905, Pioneer PDP-LX5090, Denon DVD-2500BT, Kef Reference 2.2 front speakers, Kef TDM reference Centre, Monitor Audio FB210 Sub, B&W DS6 surrounds x 4, Silver Anniversary XT for surrounds, Chord Odyssey 4 for fronts, QED HDMI-SR HDMI’s, Russ Andrews Reference Powerkords with Wattgates
 
I am not familiar with the Onkyo Dock how does it output its audio, is it analogue or are you going Digital in to the Onkyo AV? Same with the DVD player are you decoding audio in the player or are you using it as a transport and going digital in to the Onk?

I have gone along the Reviever power amp route and get excellent SQ from the system, but have a dedicated CD player. I am not sure if you need to spend a little on your sources as well possibly a DAC? I guess somone on here will be more familiar with your setup and will say if the sources are going to be good enough to warrant upgrading the power stage.
 
The sound is just very wooden - The bass seems hollow, loose and disconnected from the performance. Lack of richness or warmth and quite a narrow soundstage. The treble and mid range are elegant and quite well timed but over shadow the bass and there is limited cohesion between them. With Home Cinema is is absolutely stunning but falls short with music.

I get much better sound from Denon Micro and bookshelf Celestions in the study.

A local Hifi store is loaning me a Quad P99 Power Amp to play with for the weekend so with any luck using the Onk pre-outs for the fronts and using a dedicated stereo amp may improve the situation - I'll update when I know more
 
Update on the demo - the short of it is that the Quad went back. It improved the mid/top end further and at times was magical on acoustic soundtracks, but on most things I listened to still didn't sound musical. I tried it with Venessa Carlton, Rage against the machine, Amy Winehouse and the Fratellis to name a few and it still fell apart at the bottom end... on some more than others.

The search continues but the plan is to demo a range of integrated amps down at a local Hi-Fi store with my speakers. The only upset with this is I'll be using a splitter for the my speakers as I'll want them connected to both the Onkyo and the new Hi-Fi amp. Does anybody have any experience with these? Are they any good and how much do they affect SQ?
 
Integrated amp, front channel preouts of the Onkyo into a line input on the integrated, only integrated connected to front left and right speakers, audio-only sources (dock, etc) connected to integrated.

Set the integrated's volume control to an easily-remembered position - 10 o'clock, maybe, or due north - select the input into which the Onkyo's preouts connect, and balance up the surround again.

Then for surround listening select that input and set the volume to whichever setting you've chosen; for music listening use the integrated as normal.

Best of both worlds.

Simples...

1458307f6bli.jpg
 
Thanks very much Andrew - An amp with a digital volume may be a nice touch

I've been looking at Demos on: -

Marantz PM6002, Rokasn Kandy K2, Cyrus 6VS, NAD 326, Naim 5i and Roksan Kaspian M-1 so i can get a feel of what I will get for the money and how good the Ref Kefs will perform - anybody have any advise or info on what i should steer clear of?
 
Andrew Everard:
Integrated amp, front channel preouts of the Onkyo into a line input on the integrated, only integrated connected to front left and right speakers, audio-only sources (dock, etc) connected to integrated.

Set the integrated's volume control to an easily-remembered position - 10 o'clock, maybe, or due north - select the input into which the Onkyo's preouts connect, and balance up the surround again.

Then for surround listening select that input and set the volume to whichever setting you've chosen; for music listening use the integrated as normal.

Best of both worlds.

Simples...

1458307f6bli.jpg


Hey Andrew,

How much would you say it is necessary to spend to outperform the 905 with music?

Thanks
 
JohnNewman:Hey Andrew,

How much would you say it is necessary to spend to outperform the 905 with music?

Thanks

I reckon sort of Nait 5i money, maybe a bit less, should do it...
 
Andrew Everard:
JohnNewman:Hey Andrew,

How much would you say it is necessary to spend to outperform the 905 with music?

Thanks

I reckon sort of Nait 5i money, maybe a bit less, should do it...

Thanks Andrew.

From that, the 905 is probably a bit better than I give it credit for (relatively speaking).
 
I've got the same Onkyo receiver and have been asking the same question recently. All my music comes from my CD's ripped with a lossless codec on my PC.

I got improvements by buying a DacMagic and connecting my digital out from my PC to it and then VDH D102 III analogues to my Onkyo's analogue CD input. Trouble was, as you said, the Onkyo's sound is too lean and the DacMagic adds more clarity, which on some recordings (rock) became more of a problem, just further highlighting the Onkyo's limitations. Next upgraded my QED Silver Anniversary bi-wire (bi-amped) to 4 runs of QED Revelation (bi-amped). That took the harsh top end away, the overall sound was much better but the sound was still too lean, not helped by my wooden floors.

My preferred next route on the trail of stereo heaven was to get Naim Nait XS and connect to it using the Onkyo's pre-outs to the AV input, however this meant another shelf and the plasma being moved up a couple inches on the wall and the other half said NO!

I see my only alternative to sell the Onkyo and buy the Arcam AVR600, the Naim route would no doubt give me better stereo sound than the AVR600 (although not by much hopefully) and be a lot cheaper, but I guess the AVR600 should give improvements to all my sources, be they music or movies.
 
Hi Sibwest,

Just going off subject i notice you have the RA reference powerkords, do you use one on your Denon 2500bt? If so, how good are these cords?

Thanks.
 
pete321:Trouble was, as you said, the Onkyo's sound is too lean and the DacMagic adds more clarity, which on some recordings (rock) became more of a problem, just further highlighting the Onkyo's limitations.
I wonder if a V-Dac may produce better results than the DACMagic on this particular occasion hmmmmmm!.
 
Hello,

I get good music results using the Marantz SR6001, and XBMC, using the amp's DACs. I realise the quality won't be in the same league as the Arcam AVR600, but the sound does not seem thin via Tannoy speakers.

I wondered if a higher end Marantz, such as the SR8002 might be ok for you, and is more in the price realm of the Onkyo amp you currently have.

I find the Marantz great for films as well.
 
sibwest:
The sound is just very wooden - The bass seems hollow, loose and disconnected from the performance. Lack of richness or warmth and quite a narrow soundstage. The treble and mid range are elegant and quite well timed but over shadow the bass and there is limited cohesion between them...

Hello sibwest,

Have you tried experimenting with the position (distance from the front wall, from the corners...) and toe-in angle of the speakers?
 
To answer some question: -

The reference powerkords, I adore them - just wish I had more! I have them on the Denon and the Onk and it cleaned up SD TV a treat and gave better res to HD images too.

I have played with the speakers as best i can in the room I have. Unfortunately they are in a recess either side of the ever growing rack, all between stone walls. This was always a restriction but with the Kefs boundary compensation adjustments it means they can 'fit' near a wall without getting too muddled and boomy,

I am demoing a CA Azur 840A V2 and having fun with it too. It has only been burning in for 30hrs but is beginning to sound good - just another 150hrs to go apparently! I'll add to this when it is run in and i can form a fair assessment, but so far its looking good. Oh, also in demo is the CA540C which obviously is no match for the 840A but as I had no CD player it seemed a worthy trial for 99quid.

More to come... hang in there, we'll get music in the end!!!
 
Well the Amp went back, and my moth in law had the CD player off me. The Amp was nice with certain music but the main problems were it was a little bright for my Kef's and was fussy about the music played. On some tracks the bass was authotitive and rich and on others lean and unimpressive - couple that with a bright presentation and its never going to partner well.

I have considered I may be in the wrong price band for the Kefs? Opinions? Does anybody have any experience of the Creek Destiny range? I found the matching Amp/CD combo for £1700 which is a bit of a bargain. I appreciate its a 4* amp but at the reduced price it could pull a 5* out of the hat! Any suggestions on the next amp to try, it needs to be powerful, subtle at the mid/top end and a good all rounder and prefereably have a fixed gain input setting.

Thanks
 
Ok, have found a reasonable solution, although I'm already looking at the next upgrade step. I have bought a decent old but immaculate CD player/Pre-amp (Meridian 208) for 260quid and connected with a classic powerkord and its not bad at all. Music is much better, bass is more controlled, lean sound has gone and the Onkyo sounds pretty good.

My next thought was something along the lines of a MF A5cr Power Amp as it has dual input switchable stereo and enough beans to drive the Kefs effortlessly at 400W into 4ohms and I'll get the benefits of a dedicated Pre/power and also still only have 2 main speakers.
 
Excuse my ignorance but does that mean you are using your onk as a power amp?
 
im using rotel power amps dont no how thay rate but in stereo thay sound great,untill recently i had one rotel doing mids and one to treb but in the last week ive changed to one rotel per speaker and i have had masive improvments ,stereo imaging is better than ever even on low volumes .
 
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