How can I properly compare two amps?

sodracir

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Hi all. I'm upgrading my amp and my speakers and I want to be sure that my new equipment sounds better. Currently I have a Kenwood A-54 and two Eltax Silverstone 160. I've purchased a NAD C316BEE and a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 10.2. I couldn't find any relevant info on my current equipment so, although I guess that my new system is better, I don't really know. Testing the speakers is quite easy. The Kenwood has A-B speakers output so I'm going to (single) wire the new Diamonds to the amplifier, play a known CD and switch between A and B output several times so I can compare the sound. I did this when I switched from my previous Sony midi speakers to the Eltax and the sound difference was quite noticeable. Testing the amplifier, though, seems quite more difficult. I have two CD players which sound pretty the same with my Kenwood, a NAD 514 and a Yamaha CDX 396. So, I could attach one of them to the C316BEE. What I don't want to do is play a CD with one set, then disconnect the speakers from one amp and reconnect them to the other and play the CD in the other set. I would like to perform an instant switch to really be able to compare the sound. Having two pairs of identical speakers would do the job but how can I do this with one set of speakers? A (possible fool) idea is to wire the speakers to both amplifiers. The Diamonds are biwireable so I could connect one amp to the L connectors and the other to the H connectors and leave the interconnectors so they are actually single wired. But, can this damage the speakers? I don't know a lot about hi-fi so I don't know if this double connection is harmeless or even if the speakers would work attached like this. If this is not an option, anyone knows another way to do it? Of course, if the new speakers sound exactly like the old ones I could do the test easily, but then I would be really disappointed! I hope the new speakers to improve the sound (and the new amp also). Sorry for the long post.
 

Andrew Everard

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sodracir said:
A (possible fool) idea is to wire the speakers to both amplifiers. The Diamonds are biwireable so I could connect one amp to the L connectors and the other to the H connectors and leave the interconnectors so they are actually single wired. But, can this damage the speakers? I don't know a lot about hi-fi so I don't know if this double connection is harmeless or even if the speakers would work attached like this.

Don't even think about doing this: you run a serious risk of damaging one or both amplifiers.

Short of buying a switchbox enabling you to connect both amps to one pair of speakers and switch between them safely – which is going to cost you £100 or so – swapping the cables from one amp to the other is really the only way to do this.
 

lindsayt

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Here's what I would do:

Plug 1 amplifier in at a time. Make sure the amps are turned off whenever you connect or disconnect the inputs or outputs. Set the volumes so that they are equally loud - either by ear, or with a sound pressure meter or with a constant test tone and a voltmeter across your speaker terminals.

Play a track or half a track on 1 amplifier. Play the same track via the other amp. Also play a load of music you know well on the new amp.

Does it sound better or worse or not much different? Keep the best sounding amp - which might be your old one. If they sound equally good to you, keep the cheapest. Sometimes when comparing components it's swings and roundabouts with one sounding better in some respects and worse in others. In these cases it's down to personal preference as to which you prefer. Sometimes one component will sound comprehensively better than another component.

There's no magic to hearing differences between hi-fi components. Just relax and listen in your normal way. Trust your instincts in deciding which you prefer.
 
Even if you could switch instantaneously, which seems ideal in theory, you would most likely identify the amp that was fractionally louder as 'better'.

Far better to take your time, listen as lindsayt says, or any other way that isn't too stressful (which will blur your powers!) and trust what you hear.
 

sodracir

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Thanks a lot for your advices! I didn't know the amps were in danger, good that I asked before doing anything. Thanks again.

Well, in case you're curious, this is what I did.

I received the amp and the speakers yesterday. I attached the Diamonds the Kenwood and compared them with my old Eltax and I was really surprised that the Eltax sounded better. I was disappointed but I'm going to wait a couple of weeks because maybe after some break in time the sound of the Wharfedales improve.

Then, I attached the Diamonds to the NAD amp and the NAD CD player and left the Eltax with the Kenwood and the Yamaha. Then I played a known CD in both systems and the result was that the NADs with the Diamonds sounded clearly better than the Yamaha-Kenwood-Eltax set. Knowing that the CD players sound pretty much the same and the Eltax sounded better than the Wharfedales, the conclusion is that the NAD C316BEE is good upgrade compared to the Kenwood A-54.

So, I'll repeat the speakers test in a few days. I hope the Wharfedales sound is better then. At least, now I know that the Eltax Silverstone 160s are very good speakers. I planned to give them to my son, now I'm not sure if I should keep them and give him the Wharfedales...
 

lindsayt

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Is the next step to try the NAD amp with the Eltax compared to the Kewood amp with the Eltax, whilst keeping the CD player the same.

And then to compare CD players using whatever amp and speaker combination you like best?

How easy did you find it to hear the diffences between various components just by playing a few CD's on each? It sounds like you found it easy enough?
 

sodracir

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Is the next step to try the NAD amp with the Eltax compared to the Kewood amp with the Eltax, whilst keeping the CD player the same.

And then to compare CD players using whatever amp and speaker combination you like best?

I've just planned to repeat the same test: NAD 514 / Kenwood A-54 and then switching between the Eltax and the Wharfedale speakers. The A-54 has two (A-B) speaker outputs so it's easy to do that test and I just wanted to let the Wharfedales to break in. But if I have the time (and the willingness) I could try more combinations. I also could try both CD players (NAD 514 vs Yamaha CDX 396). When connected to the Kenwood and with the Eltax speakers I was hardly able to distinguish one from the other playing the same CD at the same time switching between both. Maybe if they are connected to the NAD amp, which delivers better sound than the Kenwood they can be distinguished, or maybe not.

How easy did you find it to hear the diffences between various components just by playing a few CD's on each? It sounds like you found it easy enough?
As I said above, both CD players were close to undistinguishable when connected to the Kenwood and Eltax. Connecting two sets of speakers to the Kenwood I was able to instantly switch between both and the differences were big the two times I've done. First I compared the Eltax Silverstone 160 with my old Sony midi speakers (don't remember the model, but they were 3 way speakers, as the Eltax). The Eltax sounded incredibly better. Yesterday I compared the Wharfedales with the Eltax and the difference was smaller but I could easily distinguish the better sound of the Eltax. The comparison between the Kenwood and NAD amps was rather indirect, as the speakers were different. I played the music first on the NADs-Wharfedale set and then on the Yamaha-Kenwood-Eltax set. The difference was also easy to hear. Based on the fact that the CD players sound is equal and the Eltaxs sound is better than the Wharfedales, I assume that the NAD amp should be a lot better than the Kenwood to have a better overall result with those combinations. Of course it might be not only the sum of the components but also the matching between them. So, the Wharfedales could deliver a better sound connected to the NAD amp than connected to the Kenwood amp. It could happen even that the Wharfedales deliver a better sound connected to the NAD amp than the Eltax connected to the Kenwood amp. To be sure I should try all the combinations. The only problem with this (other than the time and effort it requires) is that, connecting and reconnecting takes some time and after this time it's very difficult to be sure which sound is better unless the differences are big enough. But I'll try to do it and will inform you.
 
A

Anonymous

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I used to do this by selecting a snall selection of tracks from the extreme ends of your tastes,well recorded tracks preferably.

Don't worry about switch boxes etc. Just swap cables. It's pretty safe from amp to amp (unlike speaker to speaker).

Then listen, turn the volume up with the remote to a comfortable level and listen to the whole track. Try not to think of which amp you're listening to. Preconceived preferences can sway what you think you hear. Note the lows and the highs and how they sound. Concentrate on how well transitions are communicated.

Now turn it up to the max volume you *might* want to listen at. Make sure there is no clipping distortion. Listen for the same pointers.

Then swap. And repeat. On any tracks you think you heard a preference, swap and try again.

I found that there were fairly small differences in decent amps, but that sometimes the more expensive amp was not as good with certain speakers.

One of the cleanest sounds I've heard is a weedy t-amp, but it clips horribly at anything approaching "loud".

Switching as has been mentioned will draw you to the loudest... It's best (imo) to start clean each time (unless you can get a setup that allows accurate level matching).

Probably sounds obvious, but my 2p
 

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