Home Cinema Sound - Too loud in a flat

[admin_exported]

Hi all,

I've just brought the Sony BDP-S360 (as recommended by What Hi-Fi, of course!) and am putting the audio (via Optical) through a Yamaha DSP-A595a (DD 5.1 & DTS) with a Mission speaker pack (700 model front, 70 rear, no sub). I've just swapped out the Mission centre with an AAD e-44c centre (from eBay. What seems to be an unknown brand but has a sense of quality about it!).

The problem being I live in a flat and worried about loudness (hense no separate Sub). I can't seem to get a good balance - either the action scenes are too loud or the speech is too quiet - I'm constantly adjusting the volume throughout the movie. This isn't a new problem with the new Sony Blu-Ray; I've always seemed to battle with this issue. Other audio inputs include a Sony PS3, Virgin Media STB, and Media Centre PC.

In the Amp settings, I have (I think) directed the Bass through the front mains (because of no Sub), and have turned up the Centre channel to +10 in an attempt to have the centre speech louder than what comes out of the mains. However one problem (and maybe the problem) is that in action scenes I am getting explosions, gun battles, and whatnot coming out of the Centre also! So having the Centre channel turned up for clear speech is also making action scenes too loud! Setting the Centre channel level to zero so all are equal does not help either - the overall sound level is too loud for my flat. I seem to get a much better acceptable level of audio from the 2-channel TV or Amp with surround sound turned off. I guess what I hoped for was that all of the action sound would come out of the front mains, which can be turned down, and just clear speech from the centre, which can be turned up.

Is this a typical problem with surround sound where volume is limited? Or can different equipment help? I am looking to next change my Amp and Speakers. I'm wanting the Sony STR-DH800 Amp, and maybe a mix of Speakers (the Q Acoustics 2010's for Fronts).

And on the side, should the Centre speaker have a Bass driver (not sure if that is the right terminology?!). On my old Mission centre, I think I have a Tweater, Midrange, and Bass, which makes it too thumpy. On my new AAD there is no Bass speaker, which I'm thinking is a good thing since the Centre speaker is for speech??

Thank you,
Mark

 

[Anonymous]

Have a browse on the Auralex site. I am in the middle of trying to reduce noise and vibration etc and have ordered sub riser (SubDude), but there is other stuff on there that might help you.

Strange that all of a sudden there's post's about neighbour issues on this forum

 

[Anonymous]

mlcuk:

Hi all,

I've just brought the Sony BDP-S360 (as recommended by What Hi-Fi, of course!) and am putting the audio (via Optical) through a Yamaha DSP-A595a (DD 5.1 & DTS) with a Mission speaker pack (700 model front, 70 rear, no sub). I've just swapped out the Mission centre with an AAD e-44c centre (from eBay. What seems to be an unknown brand but has a sense of quality about it!).

The problem being I live in a flat and worried about loudness (hense no separate Sub). I can't seem to get a good balance - either the action scenes are too loud or the speech is too quiet - I'm constantly adjusting the volume throughout the movie. This isn't a new problem with the new Sony Blu-Ray; I've always seemed to battle with this issue. Other audio inputs include a Sony PS3, Virgin Media STB, and Media Centre PC.

In the Amp settings, I have (I think) directed the Bass through the front mains (because of no Sub), and have turned up the Centre channel to +10 in an attempt to have the centre speech louder than what comes out of the mains. However one problem (and maybe the problem) is that in action scenes I am getting explosions, gun battles, and whatnot coming out of the Centre also! So having the Centre channel turned up for clear speech is also making action scenes too loud! Setting the Centre channel level to zero so all are equal does not help either - the overall sound level is too loud for my flat. I seem to get a much better acceptable level of audio from the 2-channel TV or Amp with surround sound turned off. I guess what I hoped for was that all of the action sound would come out of the front mains, which can be turned down, and just clear speech from the centre, which can be turned up.

Is this a typical problem with surround sound where volume is limited? Or can different equipment help? I am looking to next change my Amp and Speakers. I'm wanting the Sony STR-DH800 Amp, and maybe a mix of Speakers (the Q Acoustics 2010's for Fronts).

And on the side, should the Centre speaker have a Bass driver (not sure if that is the right terminology?!). On my old Mission centre, I think I have a Tweater, Midrange, and Bass, which makes it too thumpy. On my new AAD there is no Bass speaker, which I'm thinking is a good thing since the Centre speaker is for speech??

Thank you,
Mark

Hi Mark

Why did you change your centre speaker ?

Were your Mission speakers not a package and therfore timbre matched , you should not be using mismatched L/C/R speakers it is not so critical with rears but they should be also matched if possible.

You seem to be under the impression that the centre speaker is only for speech, this is incorrect it actually handles the biggest percentage of a soundtrack and is again why speaker matching in the front is so important , also running it at +10 is sooooooo wrong

Did you setup your system with a sound meter , if not I would recommend you put your Mission centre (if you have one) back in service and calibrate your system with a meter.

Does you amp have an EQ system on it and have you set it up?

Also the most important element in a Home cinema sound is the room itself this could be causing the problems with speech and is worth some research, it might just be a matter of re-arranging some furniture

Last I realise you live in a flat but you really should consider a Subwoofer as it might help to offload th problem frquencies of your main speakers , and as poted by Piobob there are products to help with subwoofer floor vibrations

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Piobob - Thanks for the website referral - some interesting products on there.

Hi Lesmor - I changed the Centre speaker as I was getting bored of the 'black ash' Mission and fancied a natural wood colour! A poor reason, I know! You're right - I need to revert back to the Mission centre, now that I've spent a bit of time with the AAD, and see whether I was better off originally. Will take your advice and aim to not have the centre at +10! Didn't realise that having a matching 'package' is important; I'll consider a pack for my next purchase - the Q Acoustic 2000 pack perhaps. Then I can also taken your advice and try a Sub. If it doesn't work out, I could always store it up for the future (for if I move into a house). No, I don't have a calibrator or meter - I'm thinking my set-up is too 'budget' to warrant one? I think I read some modern Amps come with a microphone for some kind of auto-calibration? Maybe I should consider this as part of my next Amp purchase. I think that the room and layout is ideal - everything square and lined up with my chair bang in the middle. Changing any of the room materials (flooring, etc) is also too much of an investment for my set-up. Will post an update after I put back the Mission centre.

Cheers, Mark.

 

[michael hoy]

Try this for a sound meter

http://www.radioshackonline.co.uk/product.php?productId=297&categoryId=46

 

[DJEPSON]

if you have an iPhone there are a couple off sound meter apps available for a lot less, I used one the only problem is that I dont really know if they are calibrated correctly in the first place !

 

[Anonymous]

mlcuk:

Hi Piobob - Thanks for the website referral - some interesting products on there.

Hi Lesmor - I changed the Centre speaker as I was getting bored of the 'black ash' Mission and fancied a natural wood colour! A poor reason, I know! You're right - I need to revert back to the Mission centre, now that I've spent a bit of time with the AAD, and see whether I was better off originally. Will take your advice and aim to not have the centre at +10! Didn't realise that having a matching 'package' is important; I'll consider a pack for my next purchase - the Q Acoustic 2000 pack perhaps. Then I can also taken your advice and try a Sub. If it doesn't work out, I could always store it up for the future (for if I move into a house). No, I don't have a calibrator or meter - I'm thinking my set-up is too 'budget' to warrant one? I think I read some modern Amps come with a microphone for some kind of auto-calibration? Maybe I should consider this as part of my next Amp purchase. I think that the room and layout is ideal - everything square and lined up with my chair bang in the middle. Changing any of the room materials (flooring, etc) is also too much of an investment for my set-up. Will post an update after I put back the Mission centre.

Cheers, Mark.

Hi again mark

Using a sound meter is essential no matter what the price of the system as it balances the volume of each speaker.

You set the system up at 75db reference volume , which for your flat will be too loud , but once it is set at that , reduce the master volume for comfortable listening.

Sorry to say that a square room is the worst dimension you can have , and also sitting bang in the room center is the worst position to take , not to be confused with speaker center

You need to sit at the point of an equadistant triangle so unless you have positioned your L/R in the corners ( again not recommended ) you are sitting in the wrong place http://www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/speaker-setup-guide/index.html

Look up www.GeckoHomeCinema.com for their take on the importance of the room

Not suggesting drastic measures , some can be achieved with what you have

Hope this helps

 

[Anonymous]

Does your amp have the 'dynamic compression' feature?

If it does, turn it on... it will limit the loudness of explosions etc in the movie.

 

[Anonymous]

lesmor:mlcuk:

Hi Piobob - Thanks for the website referral - some interesting products on there.

Hi Lesmor - I changed the Centre speaker as I was getting bored of the 'black ash' Mission and fancied a natural wood colour! A poor reason, I know! You're right - I need to revert back to the Mission centre, now that I've spent a bit of time with the AAD, and see whether I was better off originally. Will take your advice and aim to not have the centre at +10! Didn't realise that having a matching 'package' is important; I'll consider a pack for my next purchase - the Q Acoustic 2000 pack perhaps. Then I can also taken your advice and try a Sub. If it doesn't work out, I could always store it up for the future (for if I move into a house). No, I don't have a calibrator or meter - I'm thinking my set-up is too 'budget' to warrant one? I think I read some modern Amps come with a microphone for some kind of auto-calibration? Maybe I should consider this as part of my next Amp purchase. I think that the room and layout is ideal - everything square and lined up with my chair bang in the middle. Changing any of the room materials (flooring, etc) is also too much of an investment for my set-up. Will post an update after I put back the Mission centre.

Cheers, Mark.

Hi again mark

Using a sound meter is essential no matter what the price of the system as it balances the volume of each speaker.

You set the system up at 75db reference volume , which for your flat will be too loud , but once it is set at that , reduce the master volume for comfortable listening.

Sorry to say that a square room is the worst dimension you can have , and also sitting bang in the room center is the worst position to take , not to be confused with speaker center

You need to sit at the point of an equadistant triangle so unless you have positioned your L/R in the corners ( again not recommended ) you are sitting in the wrong place http://www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/speaker-setup-guide/index.html

Look up www.GeckoHomeCinema.com for their take on the importance of the room

Not suggesting drastic measures , some can be achieved with what you have

Hope this helps



That's interesting what you said about Square room sizes, I've not read that myself so could you elaborate on that please, not doubting you, just iterested.

 

[Anonymous]

piobob:lesmor:mlcuk:

Hi Piobob - Thanks for the website referral - some interesting products on there.

Hi Lesmor - I changed the Centre speaker as I was getting bored of the 'black ash' Mission and fancied a natural wood colour! A poor reason, I know! You're right - I need to revert back to the Mission centre, now that I've spent a bit of time with the AAD, and see whether I was better off originally. Will take your advice and aim to not have the centre at +10! Didn't realise that having a matching 'package' is important; I'll consider a pack for my next purchase - the Q Acoustic 2000 pack perhaps. Then I can also taken your advice and try a Sub. If it doesn't work out, I could always store it up for the future (for if I move into a house). No, I don't have a calibrator or meter - I'm thinking my set-up is too 'budget' to warrant one? I think I read some modern Amps come with a microphone for some kind of auto-calibration? Maybe I should consider this as part of my next Amp purchase. I think that the room and layout is ideal - everything square and lined up with my chair bang in the middle. Changing any of the room materials (flooring, etc) is also too much of an investment for my set-up. Will post an update after I put back the Mission centre.

Cheers, Mark.

Hi again mark

Using a sound meter is essential no matter what the price of the system as it balances the volume of each speaker.

You set the system up at 75db reference volume , which for your flat will be too loud , but once it is set at that , reduce the master volume for comfortable listening.

Sorry to say that a square room is the worst dimension you can have , and also sitting bang in the room center is the worst position to take , not to be confused with speaker center

You need to sit at the point of an equidistant triangle so unless you have positioned your L/R in the corners ( again not recommended ) you are sitting in the wrong place http://www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/speaker-setup-guide/index.html

Look up www.GeckoHomeCinema.com for their take on the importance of the room

Not suggesting drastic measures , some can be achieved with what you have

Hope this helps



That's interesting what you said about Square room sizes, I've not read that myself so could you elaborate on that please, not doubting you, just iterested.

The problem with a square room is to do with room nodes, standing waves and the science of room acoustics

I appreciate this might be taking things too far for your interest but it is relevant and you might only need to move your seating position slightly to hear a good improvement in your listening pleasure

The equidistant triangle seating position might just be enough , again in your situation as long as you do not put your L/R speakers in the corners

Did you check the Gecko website , I will need to search my info for the specifics of a square room which I am happy to do if you are still interested.

Some more info on the importance of the room if you want http://www.another site/forums/room-acoustics-audio-video-calibration/1009017-acoustic-room-design-treatment-4.html

Hopefully the link is acceptable to the mods as there,as far as I know nothing on the WHF site

 

[Anonymous]

piobob:lesmor:mlcuk:

Hi Piobob - Thanks for the website referral - some interesting products on there.

Hi Lesmor - I changed the Centre speaker as I was getting bored of the 'black ash' Mission and fancied a natural wood colour! A poor reason, I know! You're right - I need to revert back to the Mission centre, now that I've spent a bit of time with the AAD, and see whether I was better off originally. Will take your advice and aim to not have the centre at +10! Didn't realise that having a matching 'package' is important; I'll consider a pack for my next purchase - the Q Acoustic 2000 pack perhaps. Then I can also taken your advice and try a Sub. If it doesn't work out, I could always store it up for the future (for if I move into a house). No, I don't have a calibrator or meter - I'm thinking my set-up is too 'budget' to warrant one? I think I read some modern Amps come with a microphone for some kind of auto-calibration? Maybe I should consider this as part of my next Amp purchase. I think that the room and layout is ideal - everything square and lined up with my chair bang in the middle. Changing any of the room materials (flooring, etc) is also too much of an investment for my set-up. Will post an update after I put back the Mission centre.

Cheers, Mark.

Hi again mark

Using a sound meter is essential no matter what the price of the system as it balances the volume of each speaker.

You set the system up at 75db reference volume , which for your flat will be too loud , but once it is set at that , reduce the master volume for comfortable listening.

Sorry to say that a square room is the worst dimension you can have , and also sitting bang in the room center is the worst position to take , not to be confused with speaker center

You need to sit at the point of an equidistant triangle so unless you have positioned your L/R in the corners ( again not recommended ) you are sitting in the wrong place http://www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/speaker-setup-guide/index.html

Look up www.GeckoHomeCinema.com for their take on the importance of the room

Not suggesting drastic measures , some can be achieved with what you have

Hope this helps



That's interesting what you said about Square room sizes, I've not read that myself so could you elaborate on that please, not doubting you, just iterested.

The problem with a square room is to do with room nodes, standing waves and the science of room acoustics

I appreciate this might be taking things too far for your interest but it is relevant and you might only need to move your seating position slightly to hear a good improvement in your listening pleasure

The equidistant triangle seating position might just be enough , again in your situation as long as you do not put your L/R speakers in the corners

Did you check the Gecko website , I will need to search my info for the specifics of a square room which I am happy to do if you are still interested.

Some more info on the importance of the room if you want http://www.another site/forums/room-acoustics-audio-video-calibration/1009017-acoustic-room-design-treatment-4.html

I appreciate that everyone is stuck with the room thay have , I mean we cant move house just to make our system sound better ( Or can we)

Hopefully the link is acceptable to the mods as there,as far as I know nothing on the WHF site for room acoustics

 

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

OK, I've found an acceptable balance! I've concluded the problem is partly me and partly the equipment.

The problem with me is that I'm too conscious of the volume and it being too loud for my neighbours. By default, the action scenes are of a nice enjoyable level and balanced with the rest of the sound, but is unfortunately a little too loud to enjoy in my flat.

I've played around a lot with the Amp settings and finally found a nice balance where I can reasonably enjoy both the soft speech and action. I set something called 'dynamic range' to Minimum, which I think could be what Steeps called 'dynamic compression' - that appears to have helped. Have also set my speaker types to 'Small' and turned down the Bass. Also significant is that, taking Lesmor's suggestion, I have swapped back in the Mission centre speaker. I swapped back and forth between the Mission and the AAD and found that the Mission blended better with the rest of the sound, whereas the AAD 'kicked up a notch' on the action scenes, which was forcing me to turn down the volume.

Also using the link to the Dolby site posted above, I've slightly adjusted the positions of my speakers.

Thank you all for your input, particularly the web links. I can now enjoy the sound along with the picture from my new Sony Blu-Ray!

Cheers, Mark.

 

[Anonymous]

mlcuk:

Hi all,

OK, I've found an acceptable balance! I've concluded the problem is partly me and partly the equipment.

The problem with me is that I'm too conscious of the volume and it being too loud for my neighbours. By default, the action scenes are of a nice enjoyable level and balanced with the rest of the sound, but is unfortunately a little too loud to enjoy in my flat.

I've played around a lot with the Amp settings and finally found a nice balance where I can reasonably enjoy both the soft speech and action. I set something called 'dynamic range' to Minimum, which I think could be what Steeps called 'dynamic compression' - that appears to have helped. Have also set my speaker types to 'Small' and turned down the Bass. Also significant is that, taking Lesmor's suggestion, I have swapped back in the Mission centre speaker. I swapped back and forth between the Mission and the AAD and found that the Mission blended better with the rest of the sound, whereas the AAD 'kicked up a notch' on the action scenes, which was forcing me to turn down the volume.

Also using the link to the Dolby site posted above, I've slightly adjusted the positions of my speakers.

Thank you all for your input, particularly the web links. I can now enjoy the sound along with the picture from my new Sony Blu-Ray!

Cheers, Mark.

Glad you have found some middle ground, enjoy your system

Regards

Andy

 

[The_Lhc]

mlcuk:I have swapped back in the Mission centre speaker. I swapped back and forth between the Mission and the AAD and found that the Mission blended better with the rest of the sound, whereas the AAD 'kicked up a notch' on the action scenes, which was forcing me to turn down the volume.

It's never a good idea to have a centre speaker that doesn't match the fronts.