i dont have the best hifi set up or av set up but i have tried to build a system that does both well as i love music and movies as much as each other but does any one ever feel that the real hifi nuts look down on any av intergration side of the hobbie and that the two should never be mixed
hi fi vs av
- Thread starter carter
- Start date
Don't be too concerned about what others think - they are not the ones paying for your kit.
I used to be a hi-fi nut - I've owned almost every brand out there. But there came a time where I was hardly listening to music and infact was spending more time watching movies.
So, I got rid of everything and invested in a nice home cinema system. The right decision as far as I'm concerned, for me.
I used to be a hi-fi nut - I've owned almost every brand out there. But there came a time where I was hardly listening to music and infact was spending more time watching movies.
So, I got rid of everything and invested in a nice home cinema system. The right decision as far as I'm concerned, for me.
your kit looks pretty good to me how do you find sd pictures on a 50 inch screen im thinking of going 50 next but was a little worried about how sd images would look on it i find them ok on my 42
Well, SD pictures on my TV have seen an improvement as I've invested in some good cables. It really does make a difference, also you must ensure that your TV is calibrated properly.
professorhat
Well-known member
Some Hi-Fi users without doubt look down on AV users - you can see that very obviously by posts made by certain members. What they fail to realise is, the sound in a proper AV setup is just as important for movie lovers as it is in a good Hi-Fi setup for music lovers, but for those members, it's just not a priority to them and therefore they dismiss it and actually argue that, because of that, these systems shouldn't be in the magazine because their hobby is more important.
I've done my best to raise how important sound is in a good AV setup since I've joined these forums, but like you I also love music. Unfortunately, I don't have unlimited funds and I've comprimised by playing CDs through my Marantz CD-63 mkII KI Signature into my Onkyo 905 (using the CD player's DAC) and this all goes into my B&W 685s - I think I get an amazing Hi-Fi sound in my main room for "proper" music listening. However, I've no doubt if I spent the same just for music, I could do even more amazing things, but the movie system is just out of this world and that is mostly what that system is about.
In the bedroom / office I have my Apple Mac, and this outputs to an Airport Express which is connected to a pair of Epoz AktiMates and they are incredible. But in the main room, movies are number 1 and I'm very, very happy with the system I have now - it will take a lot to beat it!
I've done my best to raise how important sound is in a good AV setup since I've joined these forums, but like you I also love music. Unfortunately, I don't have unlimited funds and I've comprimised by playing CDs through my Marantz CD-63 mkII KI Signature into my Onkyo 905 (using the CD player's DAC) and this all goes into my B&W 685s - I think I get an amazing Hi-Fi sound in my main room for "proper" music listening. However, I've no doubt if I spent the same just for music, I could do even more amazing things, but the movie system is just out of this world and that is mostly what that system is about.
In the bedroom / office I have my Apple Mac, and this outputs to an Airport Express which is connected to a pair of Epoz AktiMates and they are incredible. But in the main room, movies are number 1 and I'm very, very happy with the system I have now - it will take a lot to beat it!
professorhat:
Some Hi-Fi users without doubt look down on AV users - you can see that very obviously by posts made by certain members. What they fail to realise is, the sound in a proper AV setup is just as important for movie lovers as it is in a good Hi-Fi setup for music lovers, but for those members, it's just not a priority to them and therefore they dismiss it and actually argue that, because of that, these systems shouldn't be in the magazine because their hobby is more important.
I've done my best to raise how important sound is in a good AV setup since I've joined these forums, but like you I also love music. Unfortunately, I don't have unlimited funds and I've comprimised by playing CDs through my Marantz CD-63 mkII KI Signature into my Onkyo 905 (using the CD player's DAC) and this all goes into my B&W 685s - I think I get an amazing Hi-Fi sound in my main room for "proper" music listening. However, I've no doubt if I spent the same just for music, I could do even more amazing things, but the movie system is just out of this world and that is mostly what that system is about.
In the bedroom / office I have my Apple Mac, and this outputs to an Airport Express which is connected to a pair of Epoz AktiMates and they are incredible. But in the main room, movies are number 1 and I'm very, very happy with the system I have now - it will take a lot to beat it!
What does your Home Cinema System consist of, Prof?
Some Hi-Fi users without doubt look down on AV users - you can see that very obviously by posts made by certain members. What they fail to realise is, the sound in a proper AV setup is just as important for movie lovers as it is in a good Hi-Fi setup for music lovers, but for those members, it's just not a priority to them and therefore they dismiss it and actually argue that, because of that, these systems shouldn't be in the magazine because their hobby is more important.
I've done my best to raise how important sound is in a good AV setup since I've joined these forums, but like you I also love music. Unfortunately, I don't have unlimited funds and I've comprimised by playing CDs through my Marantz CD-63 mkII KI Signature into my Onkyo 905 (using the CD player's DAC) and this all goes into my B&W 685s - I think I get an amazing Hi-Fi sound in my main room for "proper" music listening. However, I've no doubt if I spent the same just for music, I could do even more amazing things, but the movie system is just out of this world and that is mostly what that system is about.
In the bedroom / office I have my Apple Mac, and this outputs to an Airport Express which is connected to a pair of Epoz AktiMates and they are incredible. But in the main room, movies are number 1 and I'm very, very happy with the system I have now - it will take a lot to beat it!
What does your Home Cinema System consist of, Prof?
That was well put Prof and I totally agree.
My own AV system is impresive playing music as well. Which is very important to us.
I have 50 CD's ripped onto my Sony 970 hard drive and have the menu selection display on the TV, sounds as good as a quality CD player.
Does any one listen to freeview Radio on there system? The broadcasts are excellent, have never heard radio sound as good.
It is possible to get the best of both worlds, but you have to work hard to do it. Obtaining a very clean power supply levels the playing field between stereo amps and AV ones.
My own AV system is impresive playing music as well. Which is very important to us.
I have 50 CD's ripped onto my Sony 970 hard drive and have the menu selection display on the TV, sounds as good as a quality CD player.
Does any one listen to freeview Radio on there system? The broadcasts are excellent, have never heard radio sound as good.
It is possible to get the best of both worlds, but you have to work hard to do it. Obtaining a very clean power supply levels the playing field between stereo amps and AV ones.
AV and hifi are now one and the same generally speaking. To appreciate multi channel music you need an av amp so the worlds are blurred from the outset.
Also, if people are willing to pay the money then you CAN have awesome music and movies together (Id put denons AV1 pre and power av amp setup against most peoples hifis. It beats the likes of Krell etc for anything like the same money and with FAR more facilities)
I recall going on a forum with a thread talking about the denon. A krell geek was laughing at how pricy the denon package is and that it cant even compete with a Krell for hifi. Then he tried it and bought one. It blew his Krell away.
Hell, id put my Marantz and Arcam setup against most hifi
Ergo ~ all these hifi nuts who just wont entertain av as ever being 'hifi' are going to be in for a shock over the next few years
Also, if people are willing to pay the money then you CAN have awesome music and movies together (Id put denons AV1 pre and power av amp setup against most peoples hifis. It beats the likes of Krell etc for anything like the same money and with FAR more facilities)
I recall going on a forum with a thread talking about the denon. A krell geek was laughing at how pricy the denon package is and that it cant even compete with a Krell for hifi. Then he tried it and bought one. It blew his Krell away.
Hell, id put my Marantz and Arcam setup against most hifi
Ergo ~ all these hifi nuts who just wont entertain av as ever being 'hifi' are going to be in for a shock over the next few years
trevor79:
Does any one listen to freeview Radio on there system? The broadcasts are excellent, have never heard radio sound as good.
The latest Russ Andrews mag explains that if setup correctly and in the right area to recieve it then freeview radio is better than fm and DAB! (DAB is too low a bandwidth and fm is 'dynamically compressed')
Does any one listen to freeview Radio on there system? The broadcasts are excellent, have never heard radio sound as good.
The latest Russ Andrews mag explains that if setup correctly and in the right area to recieve it then freeview radio is better than fm and DAB! (DAB is too low a bandwidth and fm is 'dynamically compressed')
I'd agree there is an amount of HiFi snobbism, but there are other factors, too.
Apart from anything else, there's the fact that, if you don't like the effects filled, loud, shoot-em up type movies, then the benefits A/V diminish somewhat. The slow, thoughtful films tend to use the front three speakers far more than the effects ones, which at best are used to represent the buzz of conversation in a caf‚ if they are used at all. This greatly cuts back the advantages of A/V, since HiFi can represent more than adequately the front three speakers.
Then there's the sheer mass. Unless you go for on of those compact designer systems and unless you have a separate room, your living area becomes cluttered with up to seven speakers and, of course, their cables. Small apartments aren't designed for A/V. Also, as most would agree, the compact systems can't cut it when it comes to music.
There's also the matter of your tastes. I listen to music 75% of the time, so any A/V system for me should be strongly biased toward music. Most aren't. The A/V amplifier I bought was reputed to be highly musical, but, after 6 months of great dissatisfaction and total lack of ability to match the level of even the cheapest stereo amp, I bought a NAD, sold the A/V amp and haven't looked back since.
One day, in a bigger apartment or house, I'd go back to home theatre, but in a separate room and away from the stereo, perhaps. Yes, a compromise is to put a stereo amp driving the front speakers into the mix, and I've suggested such, but for me it's an extra box, and still means 7 speakers dominating the living space, since the stereo would always be in the living room.
Apart from anything else, there's the fact that, if you don't like the effects filled, loud, shoot-em up type movies, then the benefits A/V diminish somewhat. The slow, thoughtful films tend to use the front three speakers far more than the effects ones, which at best are used to represent the buzz of conversation in a caf‚ if they are used at all. This greatly cuts back the advantages of A/V, since HiFi can represent more than adequately the front three speakers.
Then there's the sheer mass. Unless you go for on of those compact designer systems and unless you have a separate room, your living area becomes cluttered with up to seven speakers and, of course, their cables. Small apartments aren't designed for A/V. Also, as most would agree, the compact systems can't cut it when it comes to music.
There's also the matter of your tastes. I listen to music 75% of the time, so any A/V system for me should be strongly biased toward music. Most aren't. The A/V amplifier I bought was reputed to be highly musical, but, after 6 months of great dissatisfaction and total lack of ability to match the level of even the cheapest stereo amp, I bought a NAD, sold the A/V amp and haven't looked back since.
One day, in a bigger apartment or house, I'd go back to home theatre, but in a separate room and away from the stereo, perhaps. Yes, a compromise is to put a stereo amp driving the front speakers into the mix, and I've suggested such, but for me it's an extra box, and still means 7 speakers dominating the living space, since the stereo would always be in the living room.
John Duncan
Well-known member
I think I'm in the camp you describe first here - I'm a music listener first and foremost, but I had the pleasure of listening to what to most people would be an ultimate reference system (20 grand's worth, maybe?) recently and whilst it left a deep impression on me, I couldn't help thinking "can you turn it down a bit, I'm trying to watch the film here". I guess I just find the whole 'surround sound' thing requires too much of a suspension of disbelief on my part, and prefer to watch a film in more of a single plane - "over there where the film is please" - as opposed to being 'immersed' in it.
There's no doubt, however, that when playing music (I heard a 5.1 DTS mix of a recording I wasn't familiar with, so I'll ignore the perceived sibilance which may actually have been the recording), it was as good if not better than the vast majority of two-channel equipment I've heard.
There's no doubt, however, that when playing music (I heard a 5.1 DTS mix of a recording I wasn't familiar with, so I'll ignore the perceived sibilance which may actually have been the recording), it was as good if not better than the vast majority of two-channel equipment I've heard.
I would count myself more a member of the film watchers' camp. Even as a sound engineer, I work on both music production and audio post, I definitely lean more towards post. From a mixing standpoint (and mixing has always been the part I love most) mixing down well over a thousand channels of audio for your average film soundtrack is more exciting to me than 48 or so that a pop song tends to top out at. Now orchestral mixing... that's good fun. Digital Surround and ProTools-based mixing really started to hit their stride as well just as I was leaving school and getting stuck into the real world, so the premise of using the sound to immerse your listener completely really appealed to me. I don't engineer as my primary occupation anymore but still get involved with enough projects to keep my fingers wet, but I do like having a good surround setup at home to enjoy films presented as the mixers intended.
I do enjoy my music plenty as well, it just doesn't seem to occupy my playback devices as much as the steady stream of Blu-rays from Lovefilm, and I don't feel let down by my Denon AVR-3808 in it's presentation of music. Now this of course could be a lack of reference point in another's HIFI setup, but I do have a very nice set of Genelec active monitors in my studio. While the Genelecs are better, my living room system isn't very far off at all and I feel that is more down to the Mordaunt Short speaker system which is firmly on the list of items seeking upgrade.
I do enjoy my music plenty as well, it just doesn't seem to occupy my playback devices as much as the steady stream of Blu-rays from Lovefilm, and I don't feel let down by my Denon AVR-3808 in it's presentation of music. Now this of course could be a lack of reference point in another's HIFI setup, but I do have a very nice set of Genelec active monitors in my studio. While the Genelecs are better, my living room system isn't very far off at all and I feel that is more down to the Mordaunt Short speaker system which is firmly on the list of items seeking upgrade.
professorhat
Well-known member
EvilWolf:What does your Home Cinema System consist of, Prof?
Hi there - basically I have a Panasonic TH-42PX600 (only 720p, want 1080p, but looking at a projector now to fulfil that need!) and a Sony BDP-S550, sound system is an Onkyo 905 and basically the B&W 685 Theatre package, but with M1 rears due to limited space and an ASW610 sub. I may well have a switch around of the room at some point and look maybe to getting 684 fronts and move the 685s and M1s accordingly for a 7.1 setup. A projector is definitely the next purchase though so it'll be a lot of saving before I can achieve that and I reckon the projector may warrant a better Blu-Ray player so some demoing to be done - it'll be a while before I have money to consider upgrading the speakers!
Tarquinh:Apart from anything else, there's the fact that, if you don't like the effects filled, loud, shoot-em up type movies, then the benefits A/V diminish somewhat. The slow, thoughtful films tend to use the front three speakers far more than the effects ones, which at best are used to represent the buzz of conversation in a caf‚ if they are used at all. This greatly cuts back the advantages of A/V, since HiFi can represent more than adequately the front three speakers.
True, but for me, music is a also massive part of the film as well - done well through all the channels can be stunning - I remember being especially impressed with this on the Kill Bill Blu-Rays - the sound on these is some of the best I've heard so far.
Tarquinh:There's also the matter of your tastes. I listen
to music 75% of the time, so any A/V system for me should be strongly
biased toward music. Most aren't.
Absolutely, and I'm not insisting everyone should have an AV system - some people are very happy with stereo for their movies and if it suits them, then it makes sense. I certainly wouldn't look down my nose at someone who does this unlike some people might at me for playing my music through an AV amp
Hi there - basically I have a Panasonic TH-42PX600 (only 720p, want 1080p, but looking at a projector now to fulfil that need!) and a Sony BDP-S550, sound system is an Onkyo 905 and basically the B&W 685 Theatre package, but with M1 rears due to limited space and an ASW610 sub. I may well have a switch around of the room at some point and look maybe to getting 684 fronts and move the 685s and M1s accordingly for a 7.1 setup. A projector is definitely the next purchase though so it'll be a lot of saving before I can achieve that and I reckon the projector may warrant a better Blu-Ray player so some demoing to be done - it'll be a while before I have money to consider upgrading the speakers!
Tarquinh:Apart from anything else, there's the fact that, if you don't like the effects filled, loud, shoot-em up type movies, then the benefits A/V diminish somewhat. The slow, thoughtful films tend to use the front three speakers far more than the effects ones, which at best are used to represent the buzz of conversation in a caf‚ if they are used at all. This greatly cuts back the advantages of A/V, since HiFi can represent more than adequately the front three speakers.
True, but for me, music is a also massive part of the film as well - done well through all the channels can be stunning - I remember being especially impressed with this on the Kill Bill Blu-Rays - the sound on these is some of the best I've heard so far.
Tarquinh:There's also the matter of your tastes. I listen
to music 75% of the time, so any A/V system for me should be strongly
biased toward music. Most aren't.
Absolutely, and I'm not insisting everyone should have an AV system - some people are very happy with stereo for their movies and if it suits them, then it makes sense. I certainly wouldn't look down my nose at someone who does this unlike some people might at me for playing my music through an AV amp
I tend to agree with most of the comments here, and I think there is a perception that people listening to their music via AV components are somehow uncultured. I think there can be a similar view of people who listen to computer music, even if they have a quality setup.
I think it does depend on your reference point, and people used to very high end hifi would probably be a bit disappointed, but I think you can get very good music reproduction from an AV amp and surround speakers, (even ones that aren't full sized), if you pick the right ones.
A lot of people advocate two setups, but for me if you're into films and music it doesn't necessarily seem the way to go. If I had say £1000 to spend on an amp, then I'd rather have a musical AV amp, than a £500 stereo amp and a £500 AV amp. In the first setup I get quality film sound, (including the music, which I agree is a big part of any film), and could get decent musical output. In the second I get a bit better musical output, but my film sound is average, and I've got more boxes.
It's similar with speakers. For your budget I think you're better with one set of speakers that are good for both film and music.
I think it does depend on your reference point, and people used to very high end hifi would probably be a bit disappointed, but I think you can get very good music reproduction from an AV amp and surround speakers, (even ones that aren't full sized), if you pick the right ones.
A lot of people advocate two setups, but for me if you're into films and music it doesn't necessarily seem the way to go. If I had say £1000 to spend on an amp, then I'd rather have a musical AV amp, than a £500 stereo amp and a £500 AV amp. In the first setup I get quality film sound, (including the music, which I agree is a big part of any film), and could get decent musical output. In the second I get a bit better musical output, but my film sound is average, and I've got more boxes.
It's similar with speakers. For your budget I think you're better with one set of speakers that are good for both film and music.
I can't see why you should have to have one or the other. Ok i would prefer to have a hifi set up over an av set up if i had to choose, but then i sometimes felt that i had "phantom" rears when i put the movie through the hifi so it's still a little surround like.
As for music through an av set up... well in my systems its certainly not as good, but then thats like saying a fiesta isn't as good as an XKR, but when i've heard more balanced systems they both sound great.
People are probably better off buying av systems (with full size speakers) and getting the best of both worlds.
As for music through an av set up... well in my systems its certainly not as good, but then thats like saying a fiesta isn't as good as an XKR, but when i've heard more balanced systems they both sound great.
People are probably better off buying av systems (with full size speakers) and getting the best of both worlds.
idc
Well-known member
kinda:
I tend to agree with most of the comments here, and I think there is a perception that people listening to their music via AV components are somehow uncultured. I think there can be a similar view of people who listen to computer music, even if they have a quality setup.
I am an outrageous snob and PC based headfier who has sneaked round the back of and looks down on the hifiers who look down on everyone else. This is especially true when I think about how little money I have spent to at least equal and usually beat any hifi I have ever heard.
kinda:
It's similar with speakers. For your budget I think you're better with one set of speakers that are good for both film and music.
My one mate with a surround sound av set up produces great music by having a CDP into an amp into the same TDL speakers he uses for the av.
I listen to more film sound tracks than I watch films. For me the ideal av product is a Yamaha sound bar. That way av enthusiasts can look down on me as I look down on the hifiers as they.........etc etc.
I tend to agree with most of the comments here, and I think there is a perception that people listening to their music via AV components are somehow uncultured. I think there can be a similar view of people who listen to computer music, even if they have a quality setup.
I am an outrageous snob and PC based headfier who has sneaked round the back of and looks down on the hifiers who look down on everyone else. This is especially true when I think about how little money I have spent to at least equal and usually beat any hifi I have ever heard.
kinda:
It's similar with speakers. For your budget I think you're better with one set of speakers that are good for both film and music.
My one mate with a surround sound av set up produces great music by having a CDP into an amp into the same TDL speakers he uses for the av.
I listen to more film sound tracks than I watch films. For me the ideal av product is a Yamaha sound bar. That way av enthusiasts can look down on me as I look down on the hifiers as they.........etc etc.
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