Help with my Kef R300 Speakers

[josepablo.mongee]

Hello Everyone

I need some advice from all of you out there with experience in Hi.Fi. Especially if you own Kef speakers.

I bought a set of Kef R300 Speakers, with an Arcam Integrated amplifier FMJ A18 (50W at 8 ohms) and a couple of Sanus UF30 speaker stands. My sources are my computer, an old Pionner CD Player and my iPod. I have burn in the speakers for around 50 to 60 hours (like a month of constant use every time I can). Although I’m happy with the system, I try to be as objective as possible.

I own a set of Audiotechnica ATH M50 headphones (around $150 in amazon), and to be honest I find them a lot more detailed, airy and precise besides the fact that they are a little bass overpowered. These headphones are truly remarkable and the only ones I have heard better than this are the AKG K550s from a friend. I mean after some burn in time of my speakers I was expecting at minimum the same level of performance than my ATH M50s but they are not there. Do I need some more break in time? Is it maybe that I need more amplification in order for my speakers to get a lot more detailed and get more palpable textures?

About 2 years ago I heard a used system at a dealer store. It was a set of Kef XQ-30 connected to a Musical Fidelity Amplifier and CD player. This system was amazing. I mean I heard some tracks from Sara K and the Chello was like if it was right there in floor in front of me and I was able to feel the wood of the instrument vibrating. I heard some classical music and I could even sense the air flowing through the flutes. I was some sort of virtual reality that I haven’t experience with any other speakers. I was expecting at least a little bit of that performance from my Kef R300s but sadly, it is not there.

What I’m I missing? Do I need more burn-in time or better amplification? Was the DAC of the Musical Fidelity CD player the one capable of creating that virtual experience? Could it be a problem of acoustics in my room? What do I need to do to get some of that performance from my speakers? I need advice since I have limited budget I need to spend my money in the things that are really gone make a difference.

Thank you!

 

[ID.]

Most decent headphones will give you more detail than your hifi (although if you put your ear right to the drivers like you do for headphones you'll hear it's all there). Not having heard your system, I have doubts that the Arcam would be getting anywhere near the best out of those speakers.

TBH you'll usually get more bang for your buck from headphones in terms of detail and sound quality. You just miss out on the soundstaging and visceral nature of music.

 

[josepablo.mongee]

Thank you!

When you say that "the Arcam would not be getting anywhere near the best out of those speakers", is it because you don't consider the ARCAM being good amplifier? or is it because it does not have enough power to drive them correctly?

What do you think it will be a good amplifier for my speakers?

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi there, and welcome.

ID is right on the money with his insight.

Headphones don't suffer from incorrect positioning and the vagaries room acoustics (like speakers).

The Arcam A18 is a competent budget amp, that is on the warm, "pipe and slippers" side. The R300s are also (slightly) on the warmer, darker side of neutral (imo). They need an expensive amp to keep the bass under control, and get anywhere near the experience that you are hearing from your headphones.

I think you should be looking at a clean sounding amp, possibly from the likes of Bel Canto.

 

[pauln]

You might need to go more upmarket - I once read somewhere that headphones would give you as good a sound as speakers costing at least ten times as much. Probably the same is true of amplifiers and headphone amplifiers.

A bit of crossfeed can be useful in making the phones sound more "room" like without introducing all the other nasties you get from an untreated room.

 

[Frank Harvey]

When people are in this sort of situation, I'd normally recommend looking at the LS50's instead of the R300's. The LS50's are more like headphones in their presentation, although I would say that the Arcam is a smoother sounding amplifier, and it seems you want something that is a little more 'vivid'. You have what you have though, so have you tried using the outer part of the supplied foam bungs for the R300s? They'll tighten things up a little - I prefer most of the R Series with these outer bungs.

If you ever change the amplifier, try the Pioneer A50 or A70, or the Primare I22, as they're more than likely a little more like the sound you're after.

 

[philipjohnwright]

Whilst the comments about a warm amp (Arcam) are probably right I'd tend to look at your sources first. Bear in mind the demo you heard of the better kit was with a much better CD player. The Pioneer sounds as though it's an older, lower market one (although to be fair I don't know it). An iPod will be only so good, even with lossless files; to really get it singing you'd need to take a digital feed out of it into a separate DAC. Which I presume you don't have as you didn't mention it. Nor do you mention how you are getting the music out of your laptop - if it's via the headphone socket then it will sound decidely poor (again an assumption)

So my suggestion would be to try a decent source in some shape or form - whther a separate DAC or a good CD player depends how you want to play most fo your music (although a lot of CD players these days have digital inputs, killing two birds with one stone).

Hope this helps, and apologies if some of my assumptions are wrong!

 

[ID.]

Whilst the comments about a warm amp (Arcam) are probably right I'd tend to look at your sources first. Bear in mind the demo you heard of the better kit was with a much better CD player. The Pioneer sounds as though it's an older, lower market one (although to be fair I don't know it). An iPod will be only so good, even with lossless files; to really get it singing you'd need to take a digital feed out of it into a separate DAC. Which I presume you don't have as you didn't mention it. Nor do you mention how you are getting the music out of your laptop - if it's via the headphone socket then it will sound decidely poor (again an assumption)

So my suggestion would be to try a decent source in some shape or form - whther a separate DAC or a good CD player depends how you want to play most fo your music (although a lot of CD players these days have digital inputs, killing two birds with one stone).

Hope this helps, and apologies if some of my assumptions are wrong!

Good advice, I kind of ignored the whole source part, but there's plenty you can do to improve your source before changing amps and speakers (although I still think the Arcam may be getting less than the best from the speaker. Then again, many people prefer to buy speakers several times more expensive than their amplification.)

 

[Frank Harvey]

Good advice, I kind of ignored the whole source part

I did too!

Then again, many people prefer to buy speakers several times more expensive than their amplification.

And they tend to be those who become disillusioned with their system long term because they don't feel that it is performing well enough for what they've shelled out...

 

[ID.]

And they tend to be those who become disillusioned with their system long term because they don't feel that it is performing well enough for what they've shelled out...

LOL. For no particular reason I always get the urge to base my system around the amp. I'm sure I've heard people claiming you should spend twice as much on your speakers as your amp (probably the same people who told me that the rules is to spend 10% of your budget on cables).

 

[josepablo.mongee]

Hello everyone. First of all, thank you all for your answers. I appreciate the time you spent on help me to get the most out of my system.

Since this is my first Hi-Fi system, I knew it wasn’t gone be all it can be at the beginning. This is a long journey for me so I decided to start somewhere. Based on your recommendations I think, I will continue by adding a DAC as a better source since like I said, the CD player is 20 years old.

philipjohnwright, all your assumptions were correct. I know my laptop output and iPod analog output will not be the best sources. In fact a friend of mine borrowed me this weekend a small DAC FiiO E17. With it, the sound coming from my laptop was a little bit cleaner. Less bass and just a little more refined, not much… but I liked a lot how it improved!

So my plan according to your recommendations will be to invest on a good DAC, and probably next year when I save a lot more money, invest on a good AMP to get more controlled sound. I’m considering two DACs, the Musical Fidelity M1DAC or the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100. Do you guys have any experience with those?

I live in Costa Rica, so I can basically only order from what I can find in Amazon in US and have it send to my country… or the small retailers here (unfortunately there aren’t many options to choose from and it’s very expensive)

Again, thank you all!