Help needed: all in one Blu-ray/freeview PVR/media streaming

[Dan Turner]

Hi folks,

I need some assistance in trying to find the ideal AV source component(s ) for our bedroom. I want a Freeview twin-tuner PVR (preferrably HD), Blu-ray player and the ability to stream MKV files (mixture of SD and HD, some with DD sountracks and some with DTS). Looking to spend no more than £300 all in. Currently I'm using a Humax DVB-9300T PVR and a Sony BDP-570 Blu-ray player. These are a frustrating couple of products. Whilst the Sony is generally pretty decent, it simply will not stream an MKV with a DTS soundtrack. I've tried setting my media server to transcode (which solves that problem), but I get stuttering play-back on HD files (I suspect that my NAS doesn't have the horse-power to transcode). The Humax is rendered almost unused because the EPG takes several minutes to populate whenever the machine is switched on (even from standby), added to which the process of navigating forward through the days in the EPG is so unintuitive that it takes 5 minutes of trial and error to re-teach yourself evey time.

So, I have decided to treat us to a replacement for these devices - ideally one unit, but I'd rather have 2 that work intuitively and cover all the features than 1 that doesn't! 2 is the limit though as we only have 2 HDMI sockets on that TV.

I've been doing some research, and frustratingly I just can't seem to find anything that fits the bill. The Samsung BD-E8500 looks perfect on paper, it covers all the bases in a single unit and I was pretty much ready to take the plunge, but then I did some on-line research and it seems that there are a lot of unhappy owners out there, who have complaints about the useability and various reliability issues, so I have really been put off.

I looked at the Panasonic DMR-PWT520, which has a very similar feature set and looks to fit the bill nicely, until I saw a review that mentioned that it can only stream MP4 video files over a network...

So perhaps the way to go is a Youview PVR box and a Blu-ray player, if I can find a DLNA certified blu-ray that can stream MKVs...

I can't get another Sony because I have to assume that the same incompatibility with DTS soundtracks in an MKV file will still exist.

I remember looking at Pioneer and Denon players in depth when I was looking previously into what to get for the lounge, and the specs for both led to a degree of uncertainty that they would be able to stream MKV files (I've re-checked and even the current models don't mention MKV streaming compatibility)

I did have a look at the Cambridge 651BD, thinking that at least I know the CAs are good and can stream MKVs nicely, but that's £500...too much for a bedroom player that we only use to play films occasionally.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I honestly don't think that my requirements are so unreasonable, but it is very surprising how few products out there can handle the streaming part, even though we're 2 or 3 generations in to hardware that supposedly has 'networking features'. Any thoughts and advice appreciated!

Cheers

Dan

 

[kinda]

Hello,

It is surprising how hard it is to get good network video functionality. It's as if these features are just added on with no real commitment to a specific achievement of functionality and it's hard to fully understand the capabilities without trying it out. I had similar requirements to yourself, though without an MKV focus, and one option would perhaps be a Samsung BluRay player and a Humax HDR Fox T2.

Samsung BluRay players have no problems with MKVs over DLNA, (at least my C6900 doesn't). I've ripped a DVD with DD audio as MKV, but not DTS. However, I can't see why there would be an issue. Never tried HD video as MKV either, but again can't see why there would be a problem. Pcitures from all formats are very good to my eye using TV or projector.

One problem I do encounter is that over DLNA or from USB the C6900 doesn't seem to recognise anamorphic video, and does not stretch the video properly horizontally for diplay. If you have a DVD VOB / MPG or a TV recording, it will not be stretched, but appear squarer than it should be with black bars at the left and right with the result things look too tall and thin.

This is a cracking box, again fabulous pictures, and does DLNA streaming, (I don't think Humax's new YouView box does), amongst a lot of other functionality, like serving TV recordings on the network as a DLNA server. The Humax will stream anamorphic video correctly, though it does not read MKV. Another minor issue is that fast forwarding and rewind of streamed content is a bit odd.

Unless you're really stuck on having all the catchup services and the integrated guide this might work for you, (both devices have iPlayer, and maybe newer Samsungs have ITV Player, but that's it), and you get better disk capacity, (you'll get 1TB for the price of a 500Gb YouView box), and features with the T2 than with the new YouView box. I use the Samsung for most video stuff, but use the Humax for TV recording and any anamorphic video streaming, (mainly when I've ripped a DVD to save shelf space or if a TV program has been exported to the NAS).

I hope this helps.

 

[AnotherJoe]

Its no good just talking about being able to play .mkv's

MKV is a just a container format. Playback ability will depend on what formats are within the container.

 

[Dan Turner]

Hello,

It is surprising how hard it is to get good network video functionality. It's as if these features are just added on with no real commitment to a specific achievement of functionality and it's hard to fully understand the capabilities without trying it out. I had similar requirements to yourself, though without an MKV focus, and one option would perhaps be a Samsung BluRay player and a Humax HDR Fox T2.

Samsung BluRay players have no problems with MKVs over DLNA, (at least my C6900 doesn't). I've ripped a DVD with DD audio as MKV, but not DTS. However, I can't see why there would be an issue. Never tried HD video as MKV either, but again can't see why there would be a problem. Pcitures from all formats are very good to my eye using TV or projector.

One problem I do encounter is that over DLNA or from USB the C6900 doesn't seem to recognise anamorphic video, and does not stretch the video properly horizontally for diplay. If you have a DVD VOB / MPG or a TV recording, it will not be stretched, but appear squarer than it should be with black bars at the left and right with the result things look too tall and thin.

This is a cracking box, again fabulous pictures, and does DLNA streaming, (I don't think Humax's new YouView box does), amongst a lot of other functionality, like serving TV recordings on the network as a DLNA server. The Humax will stream anamorphic video correctly, though it does not read MKV. Another minor issue is that fast forwarding and rewind of streamed content is a bit odd.

Unless you're really stuck on having all the catchup services and the integrated guide this might work for you, (both devices have iPlayer, and maybe newer Samsungs have ITV Player, but that's it), and you get better disk capacity, (you'll get 1TB for the price of a 500Gb YouView box), and features with the T2 than with the new YouView box. I use the Samsung for most video stuff, but use the Humax for TV recording and any anamorphic video streaming, (mainly when I've ripped a DVD to save shelf space or if a TV program has been exported to the NAS).

I hope this helps.

Kinda - thanks very much that is very helpful. I have a friend who also recommends the Samsungs, and I can confirm that they do cope fine with DTS. I think my fall-back position if I resign myself to having to get 2 boxes is a Samsung blu-ray and a separate PVR. I'll check out the Humax - I have to admit that I had been put off a Humax because my current one is quite annoying, but if you're in the market for a standalone PVR then they seem to be the ones to beat, so i will check out their latest offerings on your recommendation.

Incidentally, your picture size issues - what DLNA server are you using? I'm using Serviio and it seems to be very good. With a few exceptions which I have been able to resolve* everything streams fine to my CA, which includes all picture sizes and a mixture of HD and SD ripped from blu-ray and DVD respectively.

*I did have an issue of letter-box pictures being stretched vertically to fill the whole screen, but I 're-muxed' (whatever that means) the files with a little tool called Mkvtoolnix and after that the new versions were fine.

Anyway, check out Serviio, because it has a range of different renderer profiles which you can match to your DLNA client and that should enable everything to play OK.

What I'm doing at the moment is looking into the Panasonic that I mentioned in more detail and trying to establish via the Serviio forum if anyone is successfully using one to stream files like I use - although the manual only confirms the ability to play MKV files via disc or USB and doesn't seem to comment at all about what it can stream, plus one review I've seen reckons is can only stream MP4, it could well be that there is a Serviio renderer profile that enables it to stream MKVs successfully. I'd just like someone to confirm that before i take the plunge! I am particularly keen on the Panasonic as is can also act as a DLNA server, therefore I should be able to stream any programmes recorded on it to the lounge, which would be a useful bonus!

Anotherjoe - H.264 video and some DD, some DTS soundtracks.

Thanks guys

 

[kinda]

The Samsung does seem fine with the common SD and HD codecs in other containers, (mpeg2 with the limitation described, h264 etc), and though I've only tried mpeg2 in an mkv I think it will be fine for HD codecs as well.

Before getting the Humax I too considered thw E8500 or E8900 but was worried about the bugs, and also feared having the same anamorphic video issues.

The Panasonic does look good, and when I read a review I thought it was a good rival to the Humax. The Humax just seems to have a few extra tricks up its sleeve that I don't know if the Panasonic does, as it seems to get a lot of bug fixes and also unofficial firmware and tools.

It too can act as a DLNA server, and also allows FTP transfers to / from it. Also, if you have the HD Fox T2, (about £90), they can act as a client and stream the recordings, (including encrypted HD ones). If you use other clients there are ways to unencrypt the HD recrodings with the HDR Fox T2 so that the other clients also can see them. It also via custom firmware has a web interface, and ability to schedule recording remotely via a web browser, maybe on a smartphone.

My NAS is a Netgear STORA and I don't really know what DLNA server it runs, but when I looked into it before I seemed to have limited scope to install things like Serviio. I may convert an old desktop as a server, and maybe look at Plex, as there is a Plex client app on available for the Samsung BluRay players.

I do have a Raspberry Pi that seems pretty good as a client for all kinds of streaming using RaspBMCand only cost about £60 including the extras like power supply, SD card, codec packs, etc, and also has all the catch up TV apps. It also acts more like a proper media centre with the film art, descriptions and so on. I just need to do a bit of work to have it controlled via my Harmony IR remote, (it's Android, iPhone, or wireless keyboard / mouse at the moment), and I've yet to compare it's output quality to that of my BluRay or the Humax though it has initially looked good. I think someone is trying to add PVR through a USB disc, but it's a bridge too far for me!

Raspberry Pi worth a look if you don't mind a bit of effort, so thought I'd mention it, but don't know about reliability longer term or quality as yet.

Hope the above helps a bit more.

 

[AnotherJoe]

Out of interest why do you want to use the MKV format?

Ripping DVDs to .VOB format would give much better compatibility - are they home movies or something?

I'd expect most tvs/bds with network capability to play vobs without any problem.

 

[Dan Turner]

The Samsung does seem fine with the common SD and HD codecs in other containers, (mpeg2 with the limitation described, h264 etc), and though I've only tried mpeg2 in an mkv I think it will be fine for HD codecs as well.

Before getting the Humax I too considered thw E8500 or E8900 but was worried about the bugs, and also feared having the same anamorphic video issues.

The Panasonic does look good, and when I read a review I thought it was a good rival to the Humax. The Humax just seems to have a few extra tricks up its sleeve that I don't know if the Panasonic does, as it seems to get a lot of bug fixes and also unofficial firmware and tools.

It too can act as a DLNA server, and also allows FTP transfers to / from it. Also, if you have the HD Fox T2, (about £90), they can act as a client and stream the recordings, (including encrypted HD ones). If you use other clients there are ways to unencrypt the HD recrodings with the HDR Fox T2 so that the other clients also can see them. It also via custom firmware has a web interface, and ability to schedule recording remotely via a web browser, maybe on a smartphone.

My NAS is a Netgear STORA and I don't really know what DLNA server it runs, but when I looked into it before I seemed to have limited scope to install things like Serviio. I may convert an old desktop as a server, and maybe look at Plex, as there is a Plex client app on available for the Samsung BluRay players.

I do have a Raspberry Pi that seems pretty good as a client for all kinds of streaming using RaspBMCand only cost about £60 including the extras like power supply, SD card, codec packs, etc, and also has all the catch up TV apps. It also acts more like a proper media centre with the film art, descriptions and so on. I just need to do a bit of work to have it controlled via my Harmony IR remote, (it's Android, iPhone, or wireless keyboard / mouse at the moment), and I've yet to compare it's output quality to that of my BluRay or the Humax though it has initially looked good. I think someone is trying to add PVR through a USB disc, but it's a bridge too far for me!

Raspberry Pi worth a look if you don't mind a bit of effort, so thought I'd mention it, but don't know about reliability longer term or quality as yet.

Hope the above helps a bit more.

Thanks Kinda - loads more information to absorb there, but that is very helpful.

The idea of doing somehting myself is very attactive, however I'm not sure my technical abilities are sufficient! The more I think about it, then getting 2 things might be the only answer if I want to buy now, unless I'm willing to be patient and see what the 2013 models bring.

I've used Plex before to play back movie files on my Mac, and it's great, so I'm sure you'll get on well with it. If you have any issues and you're converting an old PC to use as a server anyway, then give Serviio a bash - I've got a mate who uses Serviio and Samsung clients and he's got it all working very nicely and it seems to play everything.

 

[Dan Turner]

I have managed to get Richer Sounds to agree to let me try out the Panasonic mentioned in my OP for 14 days with a full refund if it doesn't do what I need it to, so I tok the plunge. Overall it's an excellent machine, and the fact that it can act as a DLNA server and I can stream the programmes recorded on it to the lounge is a real bonus.

I've been playing around with the DLNA profiles in Serviio and using a Sony Bravia profile (why? who knows) and transcoding I can get it to play MKVs with all the various combinations of HD/SD picture and DD/DTS sound). The only problem so far is that letterbox films seem to behave a litle unpredictably with some being stretched vertically to fill the whole screen and some being shown in the correct size, but being position at the top of the screen with both bars-worth of black beneath (if that makes sense). I'm reasonably confident of being able to find a DLNA profile that works fully though, as there are quite a lot of boffins on the Serviio forum playing around with creating Panasonic profiles for their particular devices, and posting up the details. In any case I have 12 days to finally make up my mind, but right now it seems like a keeper.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

I was going for this Panny until I discovered that when any PVR recording starts,the Viera Connect service link drops out for as long as it is recording.You need to check if that affects you .Theoretically it shouldn't affect simultaneous streaming but check it out.

I have logged a question on the Panny website support asking if this can be rectified by a software update in the future or whether it is hardware orientated ((ie not upgradeable) .After 2 weeks ,I have no reply-perhaps a member of WHF could ask the question chez Panny and clarify.

 

[Dan Turner]

I was going for this Panny until I discovered that when any PVR recording starts,the Viera Connect service link drops out for as long as it is recording.You need to check if that affects you .Theoretically it shouldn't affect simultaneous streaming but check it out.

Thanks - I will try that out.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

I was going for this Panny until I discovered that when any PVR recording starts,the Viera Connect service link drops out for as long as it is recording.You need to check if that affects you .Theoretically it shouldn't affect simultaneous streaming but check it out.

I have logged a question on the Panny website support asking if this can be rectified by a software update in the future or whether it is hardware orientated (ie not upgradeable) .After 2 weeks ,I have no reply-perhaps a member of WHF could ask the question chez Panny and clarify.

WHF?

 

[Andy Clough]

HI RGD, I'll email Panasonic's UK PR tomorrow and ask.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Thanks Andy.

 

[Andy Clough]

OK, here's the official response from Panasonic UK:

"The Viera Connect service link disables during recording. Unfortunately, this cannot be rectified by a software update at present."

 

[kinda]

Hello,

Sorry, not been keeping up with the forum for a few days.

Sounds like the trial is a good idea, as I thought the Panasonic showed some promise. It's high time somebody bested the Humax as it's been around for a while. The loss of online connectivity while recording sounds like a possible issue though. Does it still act as a DLNA server OK while recording / doing other stuff?

 

[Dan Turner]

Hello,

Sorry, not been keeping up with the forum for a few days.

Sounds like the trial is a good idea, as I thought the Panasonic showed some promise. It's high time somebody bested the Humax as it's been around for a while. The loss of online connectivity while recording sounds like a possible issue though. Does it still act as a DLNA server OK while recording / doing other stuff?

I really like it and it's an excellent PVR and blu-ray player. I also easily managed to stream a programme recorded on the Panasonic on another DLNA client as well, which was a really useful bonus feature to get. I haven't tried testing the DLNA connectivity whilst recording but I will do so - the impression I have is that it's just the Viera connect function that is disabled, which wouldn't bother me.

In terms of DLNA streaming to it as a client, I've got it working with the exception that the aspect ratio is messed up on letterbox format movies. I'm continuing to experiment and I can potentially create a custom renderer profile in Serviio. All told It's a great machine and I'm 99% sure I'm going to keep it and persist/have faith on the DLNA front.