Headphone Amp/DAC to partner Denon AH D5000

[Julian_b]

Does anyone have any thoughts/advice on what would be an improved solution to get the best out of my new Denon Headphones (AH D5000) versus using my Yamaha RX V3067 Receiver? So excited that I just found a pair of these in Bangkok - no they're not a copy....

Thanks in advance for any input.....

 

[quadpatch]

Congrats on the D5000!

What do they sound like through the Yamaha? How would you like them to sound and how much money do you have to spend?

 

[Julian_b]

Hi quadpatch - thanks for the congrats.

The sound through the Yamaha is way too laidback and bassy at the moment - need to do some experimenting when I get some time on the weekend.

Will also experiment with my Fiio E17 too.

I must admit I was really enjoying the sound direct from my Cowon Z2 whne I was on the flight from Bangkok to Singapore - just set to normal in the jet effect eq settings. Clear, contralled treble and mids with a nice full firm bass. Soundstage was great too.

I'm also still running them in - heard some say they change somewhat after a few hundred hours of use.

Don't have a fixed budget in mind but don't want to go nuts either....

I'll get back to you further on the sound after my experimentation.

 

[Julian_b]

Wow - these headphones sound great! The Yamaha sound is now good - the problem was that the 'drama' DSP mode was on rather 2channel stereo, plus shifted from the Internet radio station to play my flac files.
I also played some ALAC files from a Mac through the Fiio E17 - also a great sound - amazed at how deep the D5000's go, while strong through the mid range and clear treble too.

I have a feeling that things overall could tighten up while improving separation with a better amp/DAC than the E17 - any thoughts on what would be 'solid' step up - Dragon Fly, ibasso, other to look to try?

 

[quadpatch]

Hey I'm glad you managed to fix the sound. Haha @ 'Drama' DSP. I've had similar issues because of headphones requiring EQ, when switching to others and forgetting to turn the EQ off I've thought "OMG why do these headphones sound awful all of a sudden"...

Between us we have the entire dispanded Denon line of headphones, just don't be tempted to sell them! I keep thinking that I want to pick up a pair of D2000's for work, but I'm too eager to keep trying new things at the moment. I hope I can still get them when I finally decide to pick some up.

The D5000's id the only one of the three models that I haven't heard, but for now I will assume it sounds similar to mine. I found nice results from a bunch of DAC/amps actually. I like the Yulong D100 mkII quite a bit, The Fostex HP-A3 is very nice too (I'm reviewing that today), although for different reasons. The M-DAC is a great combo with the D7000 for me, but... How do you feel that the E17 compares to the Yamaha now that you've fixed the DSP settings? If you let me know which you prefer in what area and why maybe I can help steer you towards a good DAC/amp combo for you.

 

[Julian_b]

Hi quadpatch

Have had a bit of a listen between the Yamaha and the Macbook/Fiio E17 and my preference is definitely towards the latter. The Yamaha sound with the Denon's is too warm overall. Not a problem I have through my Monitor Audio Apex speakers.

I found the Mac/Fiio combo gave more clarity to the whole of the soundstage - bass was still good and solid and in the right place but better balanced with midrange and the treble. However, with the Fiio i noticed some harshness there sometimes. So I think what I'm looking for is something that will present a balanced sound stage from bass through to treble and therefor provide a tight, precise signal for the Denon's to exploit. I will probably use a mac or pc as source mostly using alac or flac files.

By the way, I was also thinking of moving the D2000's to my office too along with Fiio (though if the new DAC/Amp is amazing then....mmmm)

What are your thoughts ...?

 

[quadpatch]

Hey Julian,

OK my next question is going to be how much would you like to spend? That will dictate a lot, but would you like a larger / mains powered unit or would you prefer a portable USB powered one that can be used with a laptop?

 

[Julian_b]

Hi quadpatch - thanks for your time again.

I think it will be sensible to consider both options at the moment. I can see where I could go from a pc or my receiver or even connect to my Squeeze Box Touch for that matter - great headphone listening options all over the place.

As for budget, I don't really have one in mind but let's 500-600 pounds (if you tell me I may need to look at higher than that to get the best out of the D5000's then so be it). I will also look to leverage prices in Singapore/HK/USA which may be better too.

Look forward to your thoughts.

Cheers,

Julian

 

[quadpatch]

Hi Julian,

Well that's quite a decent budget. I wouldn't go much higher than that just for the D5000. Seeing that price makes my mind jump straight to the Audiolab M-DAC, it's a What hi-fi favourite and is amazing with the Denon's IMO. Although I don't think that it's totally stunning for everything, I do love it with the Denon D7000! With a potentially harsh treble like the Sennheiser HD800 it can be a bit grating but the Denons don't suffer much from this. I also love it with the new DT770 Limited Edition headphones. The great thing about the M-DAC is that a lot of hifi shops have it for demoing so that would be my first recommendation. Play it safe and see if you can test it. I found the M-DAC on offer for £480 (20% off) recently, but it's normally £600.

 

[quadpatch]

I should also say that I really enjoy the Yulong D100 mkII with the D7000. It's a bit smoother than the M-DAC but not quite as resolving or aggressive. It also has lots of inputs/outputs, is about half the price of the M-DAC, but gives you about 80-90% of the quality. The main reasons that I prefer the M-DAC are: The variable line-out through RCA, the remote control (which can play/pause/skip in computer audio players) and the volume dial. The Yulong's volume dial is stepped and for a relatively sensitve headphone like the Denon it can be difficult to get quite the right volume at times.

 

[Julian_b]

Hi quadpatch Decisions, decisions - have to admit I do like the amazing rap that the M-DAC receives for it's capabilities. I also like a bargain too so appreciate what you are saying about the Yulong too. I think the best way to go is the M-DAC route as will allow an even better set up going forward.....headphones, amp, speakers and all. Found a place in Singapore that distributes them so will go and have listen. Thanks for your candid thoughts and input too. Will report back when I've had a listen

 

[Julian_b]

Hi quadpatch

OK - the deed is done! Had a listen to the M-DAC - both through some floorstanders as well as importantly the Denon's. Absolutely fabulous sound. With it's flexibility as a pre amp too this really has spurred me on to sort my hi fi too - a nice project for the coming year. In the meantime I will just enjoy it through headphones.
My wife is also happy as that's my Xmas pressie sorted - now have to wait till Christmas day to have a play. Will post how things go after that.

Merry Christmas to you quadpatch and hope the new year brings you many new 'toys' as well.

Cheers,

Julian

 

[quadpatch]

Hey Julian,

Merry Christmas to you too! I'm glad that you found happiness in the M-DAC . I was listening to it and the Denons this evening and having a lot of fun. It's funny, I have heard a lot of very interesting headphones lately and I've been so impressed, but I come back to the Denons and wow - nothing else comes close at anywhere near this price and the M-DAC tunes it so well. So much energy and yeat it can be great for easy listening too. Dubstep blows your head clean off, classical is immense and Vocals are so vast and airy.

I too have have felt the draw to build an amp and speaker setup around the M-DAC. I can tell that you will be a happy puppy on Christmas morning .

 

[eggontoast]

.......I was listening to it and the Denons this evening and having a lot of fun. It's funny, I have heard a lot of very interesting headphones lately and I've been so impressed, but I come back to the Denons and wow - nothing else comes close at anywhere near this price and the M-DAC tunes it so well. So much energy and yeat it can be great for easy listening too. Dubstep blows your head clean off, classical is immense and Vocals are so vast and airy..........

Have you noticed that the old range of Denon headphones has become quite sort after now they have been discontinued, the prices for them have been rising. There doesn't seem to be much love for their new ranges from the audiophile community.

 

[quadpatch]

I was talking to a guy who owns several of each range yesterday. He said the new ones are less about clarity and more about bass. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the idea. As much I love the old Denons it seems like they have enough bass already.

 

[Stevee_W]

Hi Quadpatch. I have followed your posts here and your own blog with interest for a long time, thanks for all your work and analysis. I have had the AH D7000's for about 18 months and they are keepers. I was interested to read that they are holding their prices now that the range has been discontinued. Such a shame that Denon seemed to have got it wrong with their replacements.

Out of interest (for the future) do you know anywhere in the UK that can repair or service AH D7000s should that day come when cables, cushions or whatever need replacing or upgrading?

 

[eggontoast]

Hi Quadpatch. I have followed your posts here and your own blog with interest for a long time, thanks for all your work and analysis. I have had the AH D7000's for about 18 months and they are keepers. I was interested to read that they are holding their prices now that the range has been discontinued. Such a shame that Denon seemed to have got it wrong with their replacements.

Out of interest (for the future) do you know anywhere in the UK that can repair or service AH D7000s should that day come when cables, cushions or whatever need replacing or upgrading?

The official distributor for Denon parts in the UK is CHS although, they don't have much listed for the D7000's. They have a replacement pair of pads for the D5000's at £100.......don't want to have to buy too many of them.

 

[Stevee_W]

The official distributor for Denon parts in the UK is CHS although, they don't have much listed for the D7000's. They have a replacement pair of pads for the D5000's at £100.......don't want to have to buy too many of them.

Thanks Egg' I have not seen CHS before. Wonder if those pads would fit the AH D7000's, they are very similar. From the CHS site, replacement wooden housing cups for the AH D7000 are £243... as you say I hope that they won't need replacing any time soon.

 

[quadpatch]

Hi Quadpatch. I have followed your posts here and your own blog with interest for a long time, thanks for all your work and analysis. I have had the AH D7000's for about 18 months and they are keepers. I was interested to read that they are holding their prices now that the range has been discontinued. Such a shame that Denon seemed to have got it wrong with their replacements.

Out of interest (for the future) do you know anywhere in the UK that can repair or service AH D7000s should that day come when cables, cushions or whatever need replacing or upgrading?

Hi Steve and thanks! Glad you are enjoying the blog . I see that eggontoast has answered your question about repairs, wow that is going to be costly if anything goes wrong, I will have to take extra good care of them then . As for the Denon's replacement models. The D7100 is soon to be reviewed at Headfonia and they seem to like it, my only concern is that they seem to dislike the D7000, which is fine in itself, but it means that I can't read too much into their conclusions since I really like the D7000 myself... hmm. Just from an aesthetics standpoint I really dislike the new Denon models!

 

[Anonymous]

Hey julian

i just read the story between quadpatch and you. I'm looking for new headphones and a DAC. In 3 weeks i'll also be in bangkok. I was wondering how much you paid for your AH D5000 over there? Where did you finally buy your M-DAC?

It just makes me want also to buy an AH D5000 / M-DAC combination when I read your posts at least I'll try some listen sessions.

First I also thought going to singapore too to make some shopping there. But I don't think it will be much cheaper there (for shure not audiolab stuff)...

 

[Julian_b]

Hi cliffofdeath

Been traveling....again...so just seen your request. Been to Bangkok as part of that and noticed they still have both the Denon 5000 and 7000 in stock at the airport duty free. I bought my 5000's there for approx S$ 750 - the 7000's work out at around S$ 1100. both really good prices compared to both Singapore prices I've seen - S$ 1000 and S$ 1500 respectively. After you go through immigration turn left towards gates A to D and you then need to turn right at the 'intersection' after you go pass gate D area - you'll see the store a little way down on the left.

As for the M-Dac - I got that in Singapore for S$ 1100 - you would save 7% by getting the sales tax back but you can probably match that in the UK so wouldn't bother buying over here. I'm still running in the M-Dac as only hooked it up last weekend and haven't had time to try the Denon's through it yet (been running in through my other new 'toy' - Monitor Audio GX 300 speakers - which I'm in love with already).

Will hopefully have some time this weekend for more 'play time'.

Good luck with your travels ( and hopefully purchase too )

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks a lot for your information. The prices for the headphones sound really good. I'll have a look at the shop overthere. Here in switzerland we pay for the d5000 780 CHF (1'020 S$) and for the d7000 1'270 CHF (1'670 S$). For the M-DAC we pay here the same: 870 CHF (1140 S$).

Alright then, I wish you some amazing sound adventures!!!

 

[Julian_b]

I have had a few really good listening session over the last few days and I must say that Quadpatch was spot on with his recommendation for the M-Dac to work well with the Denon 5000's. Absolutely beautiful from the minute I played the first track. I don't know how or if the sound will change after further 'running in'?

I have noticed the M-Dac is sounding less 'harsh' with treble now through my MA GX 300's after running in for a few weeks of playing Internet radio daily.

Has anyone got a view on how long before optimal settling down of the sound character and whether the headphone amp section goes through an additional 'running in' of it's own or not?

Thanks again quadpatch for the recommendation.

 

[quadpatch]

Hi Julian, I'm glad you are enjoying the M-DAC as much as me. I love the Audiolab and Denon combo! I have found a few other headphones that shine on the M-DAC, but not everything seems to get quite the most out of it. That's not to say that anything sounds bad, just that some thing sound better on another DAC that is about half the price. Some of this is natural presentation synergy.

Another weird story is that RHA sent me their entry level headphones to play with recently, these £30 headphones get a massive boost in quality on the M-DAC. I know it's not really a sane thing to do, but I just expected very little change. Also the biggest flaw with the RHA CA200 is that the treble can be really harsh, but toning down the treble is not a skill that I wouldn't usually associate with the M-DAC (probably the head-amps fault rather than the DAC) so it's doubly confusing.

As far as burn in goes - I don't notice much after the first day or so, I put the rest of any experience shift down to us getting used to the sound rather than it actually changing.

Speaking of amplification, I tried the Shonyun SH-301 connected to the M-DAC yesterday and it was very impressive! Although I haven't tried it with the Denon headphones yet. So far I have tried them on the Mad Dog, DT770/32 and the GermanMAESTRO 8.35D, the latter was really stunning because it gained a nice sense of smoothness. I'm not concluding that the M-DAC's amplifier is poor, because I don't think it is, just that this combo can be very interesting. I haven't had much experience with dedicated headphone amplifiers yet so I wouldn't like to say too much more here.

Oh and speaking of Denon, have you seen that you can get the new D7100 on eBay for £449? That's one heck of a discount and it's an official distributor! Now I don't like the look of them much, but for this price I'm almost willing to take a punt.