I have just tried a £50 HDMI cable. The difference was not huge but anyone with eyesight approaching good to perfect (I have 20/20) would have noticed the difference on a 50" display, I did and so did my neighbour. It visually closed the gap between built in freeview (good) and Sky SD (not so good).
I would say the average punter has a set worth a grand and BR player worth 200 or so quid. Spending £20 or even a bit more on a decent lead is not overkill and will eliminate any nagging doubts folks may have whether their stuff displays/sounds at optimum.
In isolation a cheap or free lead may be perfectly adequate but I don't spend a lot of money on HD to have adequate.
Best thing to do, as suggested a number of times is to try a couple of alternatives at home or just bite the bullet and spend a few quid on a good looking cable, owner satisfaction etc.
I would say the average punter has a set worth a grand and BR player worth 200 or so quid. Spending £20 or even a bit more on a decent lead is not overkill and will eliminate any nagging doubts folks may have whether their stuff displays/sounds at optimum.
In isolation a cheap or free lead may be perfectly adequate but I don't spend a lot of money on HD to have adequate.
Best thing to do, as suggested a number of times is to try a couple of alternatives at home or just bite the bullet and spend a few quid on a good looking cable, owner satisfaction etc.
Ah right the Mark I eyeball. Same here and my peepers tell me there is no difference. However, I think that a magazine should back up their claims with proof (a picture is worth a thousand words etc.) and at least post results from testing equipment rather than the Mark I eyeball.
drummerman:
I have just tried a £50 HDMI cable. The difference was not huge but anyone with eyesight approaching good to perfect (I have 20/20) would have noticed the difference on a 50" display, I did and so did my neighbour. It visually closed the gap between built in freeview (good) and Sky SD (not so good).
I would say the average punter has a set worth a grand and BR player worth 200 or so quid. Spending £20 or even a bit more on a decent lead is not overkill and will eliminate any nagging doubts folks may have whether their stuff displays/sounds at optimum.
In isolation a cheap or free lead may be perfectly adequate but I don't spend a lot of money on HD to have adequate.
Best thing to do, as suggested a number of times is to try a couple of alternatives at home or just bite the bullet and spend a few quid on a good looking cable, owner satisfaction etc.
I have better than 20/20 according to my last eye examination and I'm viewing on a 42" set and projector screens and can't tell the difference. Maybe I need to upgrade my eyes rather than my hdmi cables?
I don't dispute that spending £20 is fair but in my opinion you're only gaining better build quality but what gets my goat is the rediculous claims attached to certain cables that are without substance.
Go into any major High Street electrical outlet and listen to the ignorant consumer being told blatant rubbish by equally ignorant assistants and you'll see what I mean.
I have just tried a £50 HDMI cable. The difference was not huge but anyone with eyesight approaching good to perfect (I have 20/20) would have noticed the difference on a 50" display, I did and so did my neighbour. It visually closed the gap between built in freeview (good) and Sky SD (not so good).
I would say the average punter has a set worth a grand and BR player worth 200 or so quid. Spending £20 or even a bit more on a decent lead is not overkill and will eliminate any nagging doubts folks may have whether their stuff displays/sounds at optimum.
In isolation a cheap or free lead may be perfectly adequate but I don't spend a lot of money on HD to have adequate.
Best thing to do, as suggested a number of times is to try a couple of alternatives at home or just bite the bullet and spend a few quid on a good looking cable, owner satisfaction etc.
I have better than 20/20 according to my last eye examination and I'm viewing on a 42" set and projector screens and can't tell the difference. Maybe I need to upgrade my eyes rather than my hdmi cables?
I don't dispute that spending £20 is fair but in my opinion you're only gaining better build quality but what gets my goat is the rediculous claims attached to certain cables that are without substance.
Go into any major High Street electrical outlet and listen to the ignorant consumer being told blatant rubbish by equally ignorant assistants and you'll see what I mean.
d4v3pum4:Ah right the Mark I eyeball. Same here and my
peepers tell me there is no difference. However, I think that a
magazine should back up their claims with proof (a picture is worth a
thousand words etc.) and at least post results from testing equipment
rather than the Mark I eyeball.
Because testing equipment's what you use to watch TV with, right?
We'll stick with the expertise and experience of a trusted team of eyeballs (and ears), thanks - people who watch and listen to TV and movies in the real world and are looking for the very best performance any product can offer.
If you can't see any difference between the cables you looked at, that's great - you've saved yourself some money. But as I mentioned, don't forget that HDMI carries sound, too....
peepers tell me there is no difference. However, I think that a
magazine should back up their claims with proof (a picture is worth a
thousand words etc.) and at least post results from testing equipment
rather than the Mark I eyeball.
Because testing equipment's what you use to watch TV with, right?
We'll stick with the expertise and experience of a trusted team of eyeballs (and ears), thanks - people who watch and listen to TV and movies in the real world and are looking for the very best performance any product can offer.
If you can't see any difference between the cables you looked at, that's great - you've saved yourself some money. But as I mentioned, don't forget that HDMI carries sound, too....
d4v3pum4:
Go into any major High Street electrical outlet and listen to the ignorant consumer being told blatant rubbish by equally ignorant assistants and you'll see what I mean.
Why single out HDMI cables? Non-specialist shops with ill-trained staff do this with just about every product!
Go into any major High Street electrical outlet and listen to the ignorant consumer being told blatant rubbish by equally ignorant assistants and you'll see what I mean.
Why single out HDMI cables? Non-specialist shops with ill-trained staff do this with just about every product!
professorhat
Well-known member
d4v3pum4:However, I think that a magazine should back up their claims with proof (a picture is worth a thousand words etc.) and at least post results from testing equipment rather than the Mark I eyeball.
I'm unclear as to how measurements can prove something is better whereas the human eye cannot. If something looks better to someone, then for them at least, it is. The same goes the other way, what if the measurements could somehow prove something is better but you were unable to see the difference? Would it be worth spending the extra money because the measurements tell you it should be so?
I'm unclear as to how measurements can prove something is better whereas the human eye cannot. If something looks better to someone, then for them at least, it is. The same goes the other way, what if the measurements could somehow prove something is better but you were unable to see the difference? Would it be worth spending the extra money because the measurements tell you it should be so?
Cofnchtr
Well-known member
Hi prof,
Think you may have hit the proverbial nail on the head there - some punters will buy just because the figures tell them it's better. 100w/channel vs. 200w per channel total music output etc. The higher the number, the greater it must be....they forget other factors can have an influence.
Some people will never make up their own mind which to a great degree, is where this all takes us. Does the OP think another cable is making a difference? If so, buy it. If not - don't.
Some won't make that decision and will accept data as the absolute answer. Even if a cable could be shown to make the picture/sound better, doesn't mean everyone will see or hear it. To the one that doesn't it's a myth and they'll argue until they're blue in the face (or banned from the site!) that everyone else is wrong.
I didn't like 100hz TV pictures as to me it looked blurry. Others swear by it. Each to their own.
The proof is in the pudding - taste it, if you enjoy it, eat it. If you don't, then spit it out but don't spend forever trying to prove to others it's horrid.
Cheers,
Cofnchtr.
Think you may have hit the proverbial nail on the head there - some punters will buy just because the figures tell them it's better. 100w/channel vs. 200w per channel total music output etc. The higher the number, the greater it must be....they forget other factors can have an influence.
Some people will never make up their own mind which to a great degree, is where this all takes us. Does the OP think another cable is making a difference? If so, buy it. If not - don't.
Some won't make that decision and will accept data as the absolute answer. Even if a cable could be shown to make the picture/sound better, doesn't mean everyone will see or hear it. To the one that doesn't it's a myth and they'll argue until they're blue in the face (or banned from the site!) that everyone else is wrong.
I didn't like 100hz TV pictures as to me it looked blurry. Others swear by it. Each to their own.
The proof is in the pudding - taste it, if you enjoy it, eat it. If you don't, then spit it out but don't spend forever trying to prove to others it's horrid.
Cheers,
Cofnchtr.
professorhat
Well-known member
Cofnchtr:The proof is in the pudding - taste it, if you enjoy it, eat it. If you don't, then spit it out but don't spend forever trying to prove to others it's horrid.
Like it - great quote!
Like it - great quote!
professorhat:Cofnchtr:The proof is in the pudding - taste it, if you enjoy it, eat it. If you don't, then spit it out but don't spend forever trying to prove to others it's horrid.
Like it - great quote!
I tasted "pudding" for the 1st time last night and totally wasnt impressed! lol
Like it - great quote!
I tasted "pudding" for the 1st time last night and totally wasnt impressed! lol
Well i've just subscriped to whfav, theres a free chord hdmi lead on its way (sometime in January), i'll post my views on this compared to the free cable that came with my PS3 and tv 18 months ago.
The only thing i've purchased so far is the CS929 mains filter & surge protect block which improved the pq a little but did better for the sound.
Alan
The only thing i've purchased so far is the CS929 mains filter & surge protect block which improved the pq a little but did better for the sound.
Alan
professorhat:I'm unclear as to how measurements can prove something is better whereas the human eye cannot. If something looks better to someone, then for them at least, it is. The same goes the other way, what if the measurements could somehow prove something is better but you were unable to see the difference? Would it be worth spending the extra money because the measurements tell you it should be so?
It would at least put the subject to bed but it appears that the press are chicken to do some comprehensive tests and prove their claims.
Didn't the Gadget Show sit down with 3 people and watch 2 displays side by side, the only difference in the setup being the hdmi cables and clearly said there was no difference in pic or sound quality. That was hardly scientific was it?
It would at least put the subject to bed but it appears that the press are chicken to do some comprehensive tests and prove their claims.
Didn't the Gadget Show sit down with 3 people and watch 2 displays side by side, the only difference in the setup being the hdmi cables and clearly said there was no difference in pic or sound quality. That was hardly scientific was it?
We do far more comprehensive tests than that, using the ABX methodology that's widely used in a vast range of scientific experiments.
We're not 'chicken' at all - neither are the companies like Chord and Clearer Audio, who do regular A/B demos of their cables at shows, and (in the case of the latter) off money-back guarantees so anyone can test their products at home.
We're not 'chicken' at all - neither are the companies like Chord and Clearer Audio, who do regular A/B demos of their cables at shows, and (in the case of the latter) off money-back guarantees so anyone can test their products at home.
The_Lhc
Well-known member
d4v3pum4:
Didn't the Gadget Show sit down with 3 people and watch 2 displays side by side, the only difference in the setup being the hdmi cables and clearly said there was no difference in pic or sound quality. That was hardly scientific was it?
That sounds about right for The Gadget Show, it seems to me that half the time they don't even understand the stuff they're reviewing, the show's a complete was of time!
Didn't the Gadget Show sit down with 3 people and watch 2 displays side by side, the only difference in the setup being the hdmi cables and clearly said there was no difference in pic or sound quality. That was hardly scientific was it?
That sounds about right for The Gadget Show, it seems to me that half the time they don't even understand the stuff they're reviewing, the show's a complete was of time!
Yup, it's an entertainment show, it's not science but lets face it they've employed the same testing method as WHF to test the difference between two hdmi cables.
Anyway, we'll wait for the OP to post back on his findings.
Anyway, we'll wait for the OP to post back on his findings.
professorhat
Well-known member
d4v3pum4:Yup, it's an entertainment show, it's not science but lets face it they've employed the same testing method as WHF to test the difference between two hdmi cables.
I seriously doubt that...
I'd also wager those "testers" haven't seen the variety of products on the market that the WHF team have seen in order to put the relative qualities of the cables into perspective on the performance per pound value.
I seriously doubt that...
I'd also wager those "testers" haven't seen the variety of products on the market that the WHF team have seen in order to put the relative qualities of the cables into perspective on the performance per pound value.
d4v3pum4:but lets face it they've employed the same testing method as WHF to test the difference between two hdmi cables.
Evidence, please...?
Evidence, please...?
Andrew Everard:
d4v3pum4:but lets face it they've employed the same testing method as WHF to test the difference between two hdmi cables.
Evidence, please...?
They test a couple of cables for a few minutes based on looking at two TVs. We test every cable that comes onto the market against a range of competition at various price points, all blind tested using side-by-side displays then the ultimate test of 100in+ projector screen and reference-quality surround sound to really sort the men from the boys.
For starters, Gadget Show didn't even consider sonic differences, let alone do truly blind ABX testing!
d4v3pum4:but lets face it they've employed the same testing method as WHF to test the difference between two hdmi cables.
Evidence, please...?
They test a couple of cables for a few minutes based on looking at two TVs. We test every cable that comes onto the market against a range of competition at various price points, all blind tested using side-by-side displays then the ultimate test of 100in+ projector screen and reference-quality surround sound to really sort the men from the boys.
For starters, Gadget Show didn't even consider sonic differences, let alone do truly blind ABX testing!
That gadget show. Tut tut...I can't believe the amount of ppl that use that shows findings as a reference for - To buy or not to buy something, Cringe.
Clare Newsome:Andrew Everard:
d4v3pum4:but lets face it they've employed the same testing method as WHF to test the difference between two hdmi cables.
Evidence, please...?
They test a couple of cables for a few minutes based on looking at two TVs. We test every cable that comes onto the market against a range of competition at various price points, all blind tested using side-by-side displays then the ultimate test of 100in+ projector screen and reference-quality surround sound to really sort the men from the boys.
For starters, Gadget Show didn't even consider sonic differences, let alone do truly blind ABX testing!
At 100in+ and even 50in i would probably agree but is the difference that noticeable on a 40in LCD display??
d4v3pum4:but lets face it they've employed the same testing method as WHF to test the difference between two hdmi cables.
Evidence, please...?
They test a couple of cables for a few minutes based on looking at two TVs. We test every cable that comes onto the market against a range of competition at various price points, all blind tested using side-by-side displays then the ultimate test of 100in+ projector screen and reference-quality surround sound to really sort the men from the boys.
For starters, Gadget Show didn't even consider sonic differences, let alone do truly blind ABX testing!
At 100in+ and even 50in i would probably agree but is the difference that noticeable on a 40in LCD display??
I am not a 'cable atheist' but I look at them as the finishing touch to a fine system, no more. I have used a gotham interconnect between tuner/amp in my previous system despite the two star rating it had and I have some interconnects here that cost many times as much but which, in that instance, did not sound as good to me. Arguably subjective and system dependant.
However, the difference between the free HDMI lead and the £50 one was not subjective. Less noise, sharper and the colors looked different too though I haven't calibrated my set yet so the judge's out there on that one. Hard to argue with the rest though no matter what kind of sound you like and I haven't even started on that yet.
I only swapped the two cables twice, the second time very briefly to make sure what I saw was not placebo. After that the HDMI-P stayed for the rest of the night.
I'll now try the chord. I don't expect much difference between the two but hopefully a similar result compared to the free one.
As to your question Ginder, if you're happy with the picture you have, great but I would have thought even on a smaller screen the improvements would be visible and perhaps audible. I know more when I got my next system sorted. Try one if you have a friendly local dealer near you.
regards
However, the difference between the free HDMI lead and the £50 one was not subjective. Less noise, sharper and the colors looked different too though I haven't calibrated my set yet so the judge's out there on that one. Hard to argue with the rest though no matter what kind of sound you like and I haven't even started on that yet.
I only swapped the two cables twice, the second time very briefly to make sure what I saw was not placebo. After that the HDMI-P stayed for the rest of the night.
I'll now try the chord. I don't expect much difference between the two but hopefully a similar result compared to the free one.
As to your question Ginder, if you're happy with the picture you have, great but I would have thought even on a smaller screen the improvements would be visible and perhaps audible. I know more when I got my next system sorted. Try one if you have a friendly local dealer near you.
regards
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