Pondering on an upgrade. Not sure which way to go and what to change.

[dreamt12]

Hi, All,

Need your knowledge, expertise and advice.

My current setup is as follows:

NAD C320BEE stereo amp.

Yamaha CDX-393 CD Player.
crappy standard interconnect cables.

Monitor Audio Silver RX-2 speakers.
Speaker cables are OK, but nothing fancy (but not total crap), not sure what brand.

PC connected to the amp via a IC cable which was considered good in a PC store Coda or something like that.

HDMI cable to a Panasonic TH-L32E30 LED TV (acts as a PC monitor)

Main usage is music from both the CD Player and the PC as well as movies.
I don't intend to go to a surround upgrade in the near future as well.

My first recent upgrade was from old Morel Acoustics 80Watt speakers, which sounded nice, but not as nice as the MA RX-2.
However when I purchased the speakers I understood that my next upgrade may need to be the amp since it may not be powerful enough (per channel) to open the speakers well, especially when on lower Db levels. And I did notice that when played at a higher volume I hear much more detail.

Now my dilemma is as follows (sorry for the long intro):
A friend of mine is selling his Onkyo TX-SR608.
We hooked it up with my existing setup, and played through Pure Audio setting (no processing at all) and compared to my NAD when it's also on zero equalizer tweaking. Played at roughly the same volume (the Onkyo was on 60 volume setting) the Onkyo gave more detail, much more instruments separation, and the bass was more vivid and crisp, while on the NAD it's all kind of compressed and nothing stands out.
This was wihout utilizing the Bi-Wire setup my speakers and the Onkyo are capable of.

So my question here is, should I go through with the AMP upgrade though I won't use all the AV surround and other features of this amp (though I'd like to connect the PC via HDMI and then output to Panasonic TV via HDMI as well).
My friend (a big WHF fan) also suggested I'd get the AudioQuest FLX-SLiP 14/4 speaker cables, and the Atlas Element Integra IC cables as well as AudioQuest Pearl HDMI cable. So this upgrade would cost me around 600 quid (the price for the new Onkyo here is 715gbp, while my friend sells his for 430gbp).

I'm not sure I want to spend so much money on this at the moment.
So as a first step I've ordered new IC cable the QED Profile phono to phono cable. Since that part is the most crappy in my setup. I'm not sure how good the CD is, and what could be the culprit in my system right now which should be replaced first.
And I've just read here on the forums that my NAD is not that bad at all.

So please suggest what should I do?

P.S. I'm traveling to Berlin tomorrow and intend to purchase thse AudioQuest FLX-SLiP 14/4 cables, but not sure if there's use in them if I don't replace the amp since my NAD doesn't support bi-wire.

 

[BenLaw]

Don't waste money changing cables, especially not the HDMI cable.

 

[matt49]

Agree with Ben.

My rule of thumb: the best value is to save until you can manage a major upgrade, either of amp or speakers.

Matt

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Every amp supports biwire. You just have to double up the cables on the speaker outputs at the amp end.

 

[dreamt12]

Hi, Ben,

The HDMI cable would be needed in case I upgrade to that Onkyo amp - since then I'd connect the PC over HDMI to Onkyo, and another HDMI cable to the TV. So in that situation I'll just need another HDMI cable, and the AudioQuest Pearl 1m isn't expensive. I was surprised how expensive the WHF 5star inerconnect cables are except for the QED I've ordered.

The main question still stands - should I upgrade to the Onkyo amp, since I did hear improvement in the sound (though not sure it's worth the money), or should I try to test a replacement of e.g. CD Player or cables, which I already understand you wouldn't change in my position.

Or perhaps I should upgrade to a different stereo amp? I want to get more range (preferebly on low Db levels) out of my speakers and I feel the NAD doesn't get the best out of them.

 

[BenLaw]

Your speakers are decent so if you're happy with them the logical change to make is the amp. The onkyo may be a sideways move in terms of outright quality but if you feel it's an improvement that's what matters. Only you can say if you consider any particular change to represent value for money. Any change in amp won't really give you deeper bass, that's down to the speakers, although an amp with more current that better controls the speakers may give a cleaner sound, leading to a sense of better / deeper bass.

However, if you're not happy with bass output the logical change is speakers. Considering both of your posts, it seems to me you need to go and listen to some kit, both speakers and amps. Stuff outside the WHF awards and give stars. Then you'll make a more informed decision all round.

As for the HDMI, a generic but functioning one with decent connectors from amazon will be just as good but cost only a few pounds. Really.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi dreamt12

Keep the CD player and change the amp. The C320BEE is good however Silver RX2's will benefit from even higher quality of amplification. Look out for Rotel's RA-1062.

As for speaker cables single wire the Silver RX2's with standard 79 strand or at a push 500 strand speaker cables (which should cost little money). I believe these standard speakrr cables will be more than good enough and fwiw, I only used/use standard 79 & 500 strand speaker cables with Silver RX2's and also with Monitor Audio's reference Platinium Series of speakers PL300, PL200.....

I also only use standard interconnect cables.

Btw, I just want to be clear that Musicraft does not deal with Rotel and secondhand components.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[the record spot]

See if you can save a while longer and get an upgrade on the amp. Onkyo's mor erecent amps (such as the one I use or better) deliver a lovely sound and have real authority on the music (or movies). Worth checking out prices perhaps...plus, your existing 608 should let you bi-amp...?

 

[dreamt12]

See if you can save a while longer and get an upgrade on the amp. Onkyo's mor erecent amps (such as the one I use or better) deliver a lovely sound and have real authority on the music (or movies). Worth checking out prices perhaps...plus, your existing 608 should let you bi-amp...?

The Onkyo 608 is the upgrade I'm considering.

I haven't considered bi-amping since that would mean e.g. buy the Onkyo and keep the NAD. I was thinking of bi-wiring, but now reading about it a bit some say the only benefit from it if I used different cables (types) for the mid/low and for the high frequencies. Or go for active bi-amping.

What do you think about that?

 

[dreamt12]

Hi dreamt12

Keep the CD player and change the amp. The C320BEE is good however Silver RX2's will benefit from even higher quality of amplification. Look out for Rotel's RA-1062.

As for speaker cables single wire the Silver RX2's with standard 79 strand or at a push 500 strand speaker cables (which should cost little money). I believe these standard speakrr cables will be more than good enough and fwiw, I only used/use standard 79 & 500 strand speaker cables with Silver RX2's and also with Monitor Audio's reference Platinium Series of speakers PL300, PL200.....

I also only use standard interconnect cables.

Btw, I just want to be clear that Musicraft does not deal with Rotel and secondhand components.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi, Rick,

Thanks for the answer. I've looked at the Rotel you suggested, and besides it also being a quite an old model, it has only 10w more per channel than my NAD, will that do that difference? the Onkyo has 130W per channel if I remember correctly. Not sure if that is what helps the speakers to open up and the sound to be more detailed and separated (more space) rather than a bit condenced with my own setup.

I'm also feeling some waste with getting a cool AV receiver when all I'm gonna use is the Stereo functionality and probably just the "no processing" mode" for my audio CDs.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi dreamt12

Keep the CD player and change the amp. The C320BEE is good however Silver RX2's will benefit from even higher quality of amplification. Look out for Rotel's RA-1062.

As for speaker cables single wire the Silver RX2's with standard 79 strand or at a push 500 strand speaker cables (which should cost little money). I believe these standard speakrr cables will be more than good enough and fwiw, I only used/use standard 79 & 500 strand speaker cables with Silver RX2's and also with Monitor Audio's reference Platinium Series of speakers PL300, PL200.....

I also only use standard interconnect cables.

Btw, I just want to be clear that Musicraft does not deal with Rotel and secondhand components.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hi, Rick,

Thanks for the answer. I've looked at the Rotel you suggested, and besides it also being a quite an old model, it has only 10w more per channel than my NAD, will that do that difference? the Onkyo has 130W per channel if I remember correctly. Not sure if that is what helps the speakers to open up and the sound to be more detailed and separated (more space) rather than a bit condenced with my own setup.

I'm also feeling some waste with getting a cool AV receiver when all I'm gonna use is the Stereo functionality and probably just the "no processing" mode" for my audio CDs.

Hi dreamt12

The RA-1062 has excellent quality of power which helps the amp to out drive and out perform more powerful amplification which Silver RX2's thrive on. With its power and tonal presentation the RA-1062 forms an excellent match with Silver RX2's :rockout:

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[SpursGator]

My opinion on the specific amps, taken as an A or B choice, is that I would not spend money upgrading your amp unless you could take a bigger leap. I would try for a better two channel amp rather than an A/V receiver - if you are going to listen to two channel, that is.

That said, a lot of times an A/V amp will sound better in this situation (A/B testing against a low powered hifi amp). The reason is that they tend to have clear, analytical character, which tends to put lots of air around the instruments and really let you hear detail (which is good). I really like the Onkyo sound, in fact, and I think it's often superior to their competition (Pioneer, Sony, HK, even Yamaha sometimes). But the case for the NAD is that it sacrifices some detail for a more cohesive, toe-tapping experience - it may seem to have better bass and is likely to be more 'fun,' especially in rock and R&B styles. It may not be as clear listening to that one song, but during a Saturday night party you may find it gives a better pulse, whereas the Onkyo might sound a bit boring (although if you tell everyone to shut up and listen carefully, they will agree it sounds great).

You also have to consider, conversely, that system matching is more important than any of this. It may be that the Onkyo and the RA-2s are just perfect for each other. It is hard to predict when this will happen but sometimes and amp and speakers just love each other. In that case maybe you should buy it. But I would advise listening to some other amp before boiling it down to these two amps. I think you can do better, both in general, and for your speakers.

I noticed there is no DAC between your computer and amp - a decent DAC can be a stunning upgrade, and will make your CD player sound better too. You should listen to one - and if a DAC makes a big difference, you then could decide to buy a nice DAC and keep the NAD, if it all sounds nice together, or also look at amps (such as the new range of NADs) that have built-in DACs - thus giving you upgraded amplification and the better sound of a DAC. If the Onkyo is like many home theatre receivers, it may have a DAC built in already - in which case try a digital connection from your computer and/or CD player and see how that sounds. Anyone who listens to a lot of music on a computer connected from its sound card to the amp with no DAC may as well not bother spending too much on amps and speakers.

But notwithstanding the above, do I think you should buy this Onkyo as an upgrade in your system? Absolutely not - not unless you hear what else is out there and conclude this really is the best upgrade available for that money (which I don't think it is).

Hope this is helpful.