Good AV receiver for Music??? HELP!

[admin_exported]

Hello everyone :wave:

I have...

- Tannoy Revolutions Floorstanding speakers

- Tannoy Centre Speaker

- Mission Rear Speakers

- Paradigm Active Sub

- And a InFocus Projector

:read:

Bought the sony Std820 just to do a test, but it was completely useless :shame: .....The treble was like the amp just cant delivery it. and the amp was also doing everything to a low standerd. (gunna return lol :shifty: )

Now..... i need a AV reicever that is good for music..Not fussed how good it is on cinema...

dont want to spend over 500 tbh... So cant really go for the big Arcams, As u kno there brilliant...

If the Reiceiver does music well, there should be no problem for it to do Cinema well?

Im thinking of the Onkyo TX-NR515 (What-Hifi 5* Award ) but my dads says Marantz NR-1402 :quest:

What would you say? which is better for music#

Thanks in advance

 

[bigboss]

Look at Yamaha & Denon which are very good with music. If you buy a receiver with pre-outs, you can always add a dedicated stereo amplifier at a later date without having to upgrade your receiver if you're still not happy with sound. Even a good budget stereo amplifier generally outperforms most AV receivers.

Definitely demo your options before purchase.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply...il have a look at the denon and yamaha's

 

[Anonymous]

I have a Yamaha 667 and it's "good" with music but that's all.

In fact that's all have ever heard said about AV playing music, if you want the music to really grab you and have any kind of wow factor go for two systems one for film one for music.

The pre out thing I've tried and it never sat well with me always a compromise.

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

The Yamaha X-V673 is the one to go for . The 2ch sound is seriously good for an AV amp at this price pioint. When you consider it has Airplay, DAC and room eq as well as plenty of power it is a great stereo product in its own right.

 

[The_Lhc]

The pre out thing I've tried and it never sat well with me always a compromise.

Compromise in what way?

 

[bigboss]

The pre out thing I've tried and it never sat well with me always a compromise.

Compromise in what way?

I don't understand it either. It bypasses the AV receiver completely, so where's the question of compromise?

 

[Anonymous]

Compromise was functionality over sound quality

the out is pre-amp out so the tonal imprint of the AV was always there

even when set flat the character of the 667 was always audible.

Im not saying it sounded bad it just didn't wow me, songs I new and loved came out clear and full but flat as a pancake even after 6-7months of EQ settings and messing with setup.

Think the issue was just too much processing going on in the signal path cd-AV pre amp-stereo amp-speakers took the life out of a lot of recordings.

And from a sound perspective the qualitys that make BB king sound like a blues legend are miles from making it sound like the 18th century had declared war on my living room in master and commander

I think this is probably the most difficult thing to achieve on a budget film and music equally of high..ish quality.

The two system route is the best I've found for me. Two amps one for film one for music and share the front L&R speakers.

 

[The_Lhc]

You're doing it wrong! The idea is to take all of the 2-ch (ie music) sources and plug them straight into the stereo amp (which is why they're usually integrated stereo amps when used for this purpose), that way the AV amp isn't even switched on when listening to music.

 

[Anonymous]

Yep get the 2 Chanel imput thing sorry should have said blu ray.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

If music is key and you don't need an all singing AV set up, definitely got the two box pre out root. You just need a receiver with front left an right pre outs (check eBay for a Sony da2400es or similar) and then a second hand stereo amp like the Denon PMA-350SE or similar. Both for well under £500 and music will sound much better than a £500 receiver.

 

[the record spot]

Depends what kind of music format you're listening to though doesn't it? A stereo integrated by and large will fall at the first hurdle if trying to handle a hi-res source. They don't, by and large, offer onboard DACs, and so on...a few do (think Harman's HK990 or the more recent Onkyo A9000-R (£1500) or their A9070 stereo amps which has seaparate onboard Wolfson 24-bit/192khz DACs for the left and right channels but integrateds are mostly rooted with one foot in the past.

Your AV shortlist should also include Onkyo for that matter (no, I'm not on commission!), as Noel Keywood at Hi Fi World has reviewed several of their amps in recent years and I can't recall any one of them getting a poor write-up for music and they all handle the different formats well.

Plus you have all the other benefits an AV amp generally brings; the means to bi-amp easily, more are now coming with network connectivity opening up the internet's many music or radio streaming features available or built-in and so on.

EDIT: Having said all that, I'm thinking about trying out the aforementioned Onkyo A-9070...

 

[sound10]

Hi iHarpzZ, I have previously posted a similar question. Along with the brands already mentioned, it is also definitely worth auditioning Marantz AV Receivers as the general concensus is that they are very good with music. Marantz have released their new models for this year and you should definitley have a listen to the SR5007, SR6007 and SR7007.

One other thing to mention is that although Denon & Marantz are owned by the same parent company, the Marantz AVR's seem to sound better than their Denon counterparts.

Hope this helps !

 

[Anonymous]

Hello all,

I just stumbled accross this thread looking for a solution to the stereo / 5.1 dilemma. I met with this problem a couple of years or so ago and decided to stay stereo. Now I see that the many problems that caused me to stick with stereo haven't been resolved in the meantime!

However, there are a lot of misconceptions in this thread that perhaps I can clear up.

As for this question. Using an AV receiver as a pre-amp will always be a compromise because the AV reveiver is being used as a pre-amp. This doesn't mean the signal 'bypasses the AV receiver completely' -- quite the opposite. The AV reciever is boosting the line-level signal to the correct volume level, ready for power amplification.

People suggesting pre-amp into integrated amp have also missed this point. You can't take a pre-amp signal and put it into an integrated amp. An "integrated" amp means integrated pre-amp and power-amp. If you take pre-amp and put it into integrated you will be going pre-amp > pre-amp > power amp. Quite apart from the poor effect this would have on sound, you will also have two volume knobs controlling the same signal -- very bad. People have mixed up line-level output and pre-amp output.

The pre-amp solution is only intended for power-amplification. So AV receiver [pre-out] > power amp.

Also some people seem to suggest that all stereo sources go to integrated amp, and the rest can go to AV receiver. How would this work? If your 5.1 source (DVD etc) goes to AV receiver, you can't (as far as I know) get an analogue line-level signal of just the front L and R channels out. I can only assume that these people mean you should have two sources of amplification plugged into the front L and Rs!! One being AV receiver for 5.1 duties, t'other being integrated amp for stereo duties. I don't have to insult anybody's intelligence by saying that's an absolute no-go.

So, yes, you can use AV receiver as pre-amp, but make sure you feed the signal into a stereo power-amp, not an integrated. Other than that, stick to two systems...or stereo...or medicore music.... See why I call this a dilemma!

 

[doc9999]

Hi Will762,

So how does one go about assessing AV amps for their preamp qualities? Sounds like its going to be the weakest link in the system.

 

[Exoticsounds]

Marantz recivers are usually quite good with music when run in Pure Direct mode.

 

[GSB]

Excuse me for jumping in on this thread but i'm a little confused now.

I'm wanting to add an amp to my set-up to improve both 2chanel music and integrate into my 5.1 system.It has been suggested i require an integrated stereo amp.However after following this thread is that the best way....also the oppo105(music/films)acts as a pre-amp. :?

I'm asking on here becouse i havn't aranged any demo's yet,plus it would be nice to know what i require

 

[skkayman]

to add amp for stereo, you need integrated amplifier with MAIN IN/Power amp in input. Connect this with front preout from AV receiver.

only a few of them has this inputs. Some are switchable (Arcam Alpha 9, .. - there is input directly to power amplifier), some not (I know that NADs have preout and main in connectors, connected with cable - you can buy cinch switch and switch between preout from receiver and integrated amp preout). this way, connect dvd/BD player to receiver, you control volume in receiver, integrated amplifier works only as power amplifier.

when you want to listen to music, receiver will be turned off, and you connect cd player/computer/.. to integrated amplifier and control volume on it.

receiver will amps only surrounds/center.

other way is to have preapmlifier and power amplifier. and wou will switch between preamplifier for music and preout connectors from reciever - connected to power amplifier.

integrated amplifier = preamplifier + power amplifier

sorry, english is not my language so if it is hard to understand, I will do a picture

 

[GSB]

Your English is better than mine and iv'e lived here all my natural(so far :shifty: )

Oooh yes please,a picture would be smashing :rofl:

Seriously,thanks for your reply

 

[michael hoy]

Your English is better than mine and iv'e lived here all my natural(so far :shifty: )

Oooh yes please,a picture would be smashing :rofl:

Seriously,thanks for your reply

GSB,

See if these help you.

Part1

Part 2

 

[GSB]

Mr Hoy you are a star :cheers:

 

[skkayman]

oh nice but I already draw pictures :type:

so.. I won't delete them so here they are :roll:

AVR only, for surround and stereo

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/5537/avronly.png

Integrated amplifier with hometheater pass input (MAIN IN, POWER AMP IN, PROCESSOR IN, ...)

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9786/avrintegratedamp.png

Integrated amplifier WITHOUT ht pass

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9458/avrintegratedamp2.png

with speaker switching box stereo and surround systems are separated

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3766/avrspeakerswitch.png

with power amplifier and preamplifier for stereo

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/8041/avrprepoweramp.png

 

[GSB]

:clap:

 

[Native_bon]

Hi Will762,

So how does one go about assessing AV amps for their preamp qualities? Sounds like its going to be the weakest link in the system.

The Marantz Sr7007 has a very good pre amp stage. But i suppose that is out of your range.. Have you actually sat down side by side & had a listen to a good av amp & 2 channel amp to work if the diffrence is that much, or are you going by what others are saying.. I for one dnt think the difference is that must to really worry about using a good av amp for 2 channel music.

I was once in a shop auditioning a 2 channel amp & an av amp. The retail man kept tell wing oh dnt you see the AV amp does not play well.. Oh not good at all.. .. But when i told him woukld he go out so a collouge would setup one or the other... He agreed & could not tell if the 2 channel or av amp was play with each setup.. Most people say you get more musicality from a 2 channel.. Yes i can tell there is some difference, but if it is to the piont were i struggle to find the diffrence then i may as well use my av amp for music..

The two amps compared were, Marantz SR7007 & creek destiny 2.. speakers used were a pair of 2grand kef speakers..

 

[Sliced Bread]

Claire newsome had a good solution to this with no compromise on sound quality.

Seperate AV and Stereo systems into the same speakers.

You have your AV components and stereo components seperate; add banana plugs to your two sets of speaker cables and label up the HiFi and AV speaker cables clearly, then swap them over depending on the system you want to use.

Sounds like a bit of a hastle and it's more cables to hide, but it sounds like the best of both worlds with no compromise at all on sound quality. :cheers: