Getting tube warmth using warm speakers

[analog]

The general opinion is that speakers have the greatest influence on the sound signature of a hifi system.

Is it possible then, to replicate the warm sound of a tube amplifier, by using warm sounding speakers connected to a solid state amplifier?

 

[CnoEvil]

Not really, though it depends what you mean by "Tube Warmth", and indeed by "warmth".

IMO. Warmth describes bass and lower mid-range. Dark describes treble and possibly upper mids.

IME. The only thing that sounds like a tube amp........is a tube amp.....and even they have a big spectrum of difference between them.

There are forward sounding speakers like Focal and Triangle; and there are smoother sounding ones like SF, and to some degree, Kef R series......the smoother sounding ones won't make your Class D amp sound like a SET, but they will take the edge off brighter electronics.

 

[Richard Allen]

Cno's right, although where class D came from in his post I'm not sure.

What you describe as warmth I would describe as texture and, as Cno says, nothing will sound like a tube amp other than a tube amp itself. However there are some things I've tried that 'get close' to what you are after.

Firstly, try to avoid loudspeakers with metal dome tweeters or indeed ribbons. Soft domes are the way to go I think. Secondly, and if you can find one, a valve preamp MAY assist in what you are looking for. If your solid state amp is an integrated then just select an input, connect the valve pre to that input, whack the volume up on the solid state jobby and use the valve pre as the control unit. I actually did this with a class D amp and a valve pre and the results were quite astonishing but definitely not a 'solid state' sound. Warm???. No. Subtle??. Yes. Absolutely.

Just my two penneth for what it is worth but, fundamentally, Cno is right.

 

[Vladimir]

My B&W CM1 have "tube-like" sound. Warm, detailed, non-fatiguing. They were engineered by B&W to be friendly to music lovers, not audiophiles.

 

[Covenanter]

More use of meaningless terminology. Hey ho! Baloney baffles brains.

Chris

 

[Al ears]

Not too sure about 'the warm sound of a tube amplifier' the only thing warm about most modern tube amps is the casework.

Agree with cno and richard allen - the idea of a tube preamp is a good one.

Large and efficient paper coned / soft dome floorstanders might assist somewhat, but as has been previously stated, the only way go get the sound I think you are looking for is to get a valve amp.

Oh, and welcome to the forum analog.

 

[hifikrazy]

I've listened to some solid state amplifiers such as Karan that are very warm and "analog sounding", but they would never be mistaken for a tube amplifier. Agree with the others above that only a tube amp can produce tube warmth and harmonic texture, which is why I pair a tube preamp with a solid state power amp. Best of both worlds, in my opinion.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno's right, although where class D came from in his post I'm not sure.

What you describe as warmth I would describe as texture and, as Cno says, nothing will sound like a tube amp other than a tube amp itself. However there are some things I've tried that 'get close' to what you are after.

Firstly, try to avoid loudspeakers with metal dome tweeters or indeed ribbons. Soft domes are the way to go I think. Secondly, and if you can find one, a valve preamp MAY assist in what you are looking for. If your solid state amp is an integrated then just select an input, connect the valve pre to that input, whack the volume up on the solid state jobby and use the valve pre as the control unit. I actually did this with a class D amp and a valve pre and the results were quite astonishing but definitely not a 'solid state' sound. Warm???. No. Subtle??. Yes. Absolutely.

Just my two penneth for what it is worth but, fundamentally, Cno is right.

Since the OP seemed to be trying to get a "tube like" warmth from changing speakers, I simply used Class D as an extreme example to make a point, because it sounds so different to a Valve amp.

I think there are certain number of well implemented metal dome tweeters that sound smooth....but often they don't. Also, going soft dome, isn't an automatic route to success either....but again, most of the best examples have them.

 

[hifikrazy]

I think there are certain number of well implemented metal dome tweeters that sound smooth....but often they don't. Also, going soft dome, isn't an automatic route to success either....but again, most of the best examples have them.

Wilson Audio seems to have realised this too, with their higher models sporting soft dome tweeters and their lower models titanium tweeters. The recently launched Sasha 2 also switched from titanium tweeter to soft dome.

 

[hifikrazy]

I think there are certain number of well implemented metal dome tweeters that sound smooth....but often they don't. Also, going soft dome, isn't an automatic route to success either....but again, most of the best examples have them.

Wilson Audio seems to have realised this too, with their higher models sporting soft dome tweeters and their lower models titanium tweeters. The recently launched Sasha 2 also switched from titanium tweeter to soft dome.

 

[hifikrazy]

Crap, what's with the double post?

 

[Richard Allen]

My B&W CM1 have "tube-like" sound. Warm, detailed, non-fatiguing. They were engineered by B&W to be friendly to music lovers, not audiophiles.

Sorry Vladimir. You've lost me. Warm, detailed and non fatiguing I can handle but tube like I have trouble with. A tube's a tube and a loudspeaker's a loudspeaker. As I type this I think I know what you're hinting at. Essentially neutral and non agressive which I think B&W excel at which is why they're top of the pile in this country. Excellent products indeed.

 

[Richard Allen]

Crap, what's with the double post?

Forum mechanism needs another Valium by the look of it. 🙂

 

[Richard Allen]

I've listened to some solid state amplifiers such as Karan that are very warm and "analog sounding", but they would never be mistaken for a tube amplifier. Agree with the others above that only a tube amp can produce tube warmth and harmonic texture, which is why I pair a tube preamp with a solid state power amp. Best of both worlds, in my opinion.

+1 and another 1 as well. 🙂

 

[SpursGator]

Firstly, try to avoid loudspeakers with metal dome tweeters or indeed ribbons. Soft domes are the way to go I think. Secondly, and if you can find one, a valve preamp MAY assist in what you are looking for.

+1 and +1.

Solid state electronics require soft dome tweeters. There are maybe a few exceptions, such as the unusual tweeter used by Anthony Gallo on the Reference series (still the greatest tweeter I've heard, though there are many I have not heard and want to, especially the Scan-Speak beryllium dome).

For awhile I used a Benchmark DAC1 directly feeding a solid state power amp - a pretty common arrangement. Then I found my tube preamp on the used market and reluctantly bought it - it wasn't clear to me that it was needed as I don't switch inputs and there's a volume control on the DAC. But man, what a difference. The VK-50SE is not a very 'warm' preamp, but it added a little richness and quadrupled the size and depth of the soundstage. It was a dramatic improvement - one of my best upgrades.

I agree with everyone that you can't really fake the tube sound, but there are certainly some speakers that are richer and 'warmer' than others. I really think that it depends on what the OP really means. I have moved away from certain speakers because I found them a bit TOO rich. The terminology is the real problem. If the OP tried electrostatic speakers with his SS amp, he might think he was hearing a tube amp.

 

[pyrrhon]

The amp will mostly have the sound signature of the tubes type and brand in it, swap the tubes and you get another sound. There is more difference to me between a 6L6 tube and an EL34 then between most non-tubes decent amps. The idea is to experiment with tube types then brands to refine your sound. There is no such thing as the better sound, it will be the one you like at the moment. You'll never get this essential and cool part of a tube amp by picking componments that sounds warmer.

 

[CnoEvil]

Solid state electronics require soft dome tweeters. There are maybe a few exceptions, such as the unusual tweeter used by Anthony Gallo on the Reference series (still the greatest tweeter I've heard, though there are many I have not heard and want to, especially the Scan-Speak beryllium dome).

One of the reasons I like SS Class A, is that it works well with metal domes. Other amps that are OK with metal domes are Audio Analogue, Arcam, Electro and Sugden Mystro.

IMO. Kef Blades do not sound bright or forward, but remarkably natural......and that has been passed down to the R Series. They sound very different to the IQs, XQs and Refs. I also believe Harbeth use metal dome tweeters on at least one of their models, to good effect.

Interestingly, the first British speaker to feature a metal tweeter (Copper) was the Celestion SL6, which was so smooth it lacked excitement.

 

[chebby]

Solid state electronics require soft dome tweeters. There are maybe a few exceptions, such as the unusual tweeter used by Anthony Gallo on the Reference series (still the greatest tweeter I've heard, though there are many I have not heard and want to, especially the Scan-Speak beryllium dome).

I guess the 19mm aluminium dome tweeters in the Harbeth P3ESRs must be some kind of exception too, given how many folk use them with solid state amps. (Even a few users with Harbeth metal domed tweeters and Naim amps around here IIRC.)

Never once heard of them being described as harsh or 'metallic' or 'cold' despite their tweeter material and injection moulded plastic (RADIAL™) mid / bass driver cones. (Quite the opposite in fact.)

Maybe there is a synesthetic reaction going on here where people unconsciously attribute the qualities of the materials to the character of the sound. (Silk = silky and smooth, metallic = cold and harsh, wood and paper = organic and natural etc.)

Or maybe it's more like this...

 

[plastic penguin]

The general opinion is that speakers have the greatest influence on the sound signature of a hifi system.

Is it possible then, to replicate the warm sound of a tube amplifier, by using warm sounding speakers connected to a solid state amplifier?

Can you not just go with a combo that sounds nice to your ears? Trying to pigeonhole hi-fi components complicates the issue far more than it should.

This is one hobby where you'll get a whole raft of views: a synthesis of opinions that may not be applicable to your circumstances.

Dem different speakers and nod in the direction of the ones that 'rock your boat'. Simples.

 

[analog]

I have demoed tube amplifiers and loved the sound but they are typically bigger in size than solid state integrated, and requires more breathing space (headroom), which is an issue, as I have space limitations. Furthermore to get a decent tube integrated with a remote will cost more. So I am just wondering if I can achieve similar sound by using warm speakers connected to the right solid state amplifier, since speakers should have the biggest influence on overall sound. From the responses here, it seems like the amplifier (ss vs valve) influences the sound more than speakers.

 

[CnoEvil]

I have demoed tube amplifiers and loved the sound but they are typically bigger in size than solid state integrated, and requires more breathing space (headroom), which is an issue, as I have space limitations. Furthermore to get a decent tube integrated with a remote will cost more. So I am just wondering if I can achieve similar sound by using warm speakers connected to the right solid state amplifier, since speakers should have the biggest influence on overall sound. From the responses here, it seems like the amplifier (ss vs valve) influences the sound more than speakers.

Can you tell us what your system is, or what you would like it to be; and your budget for reforming it?......what brands do you have access to?

 

[analog]

I have the marantz pearl lites (amp and cd) and a pair of boston acoustics a25. I feel I am getting the smoothness from this setup but still not the warmth or texture of sound I hear from tube amp demoes. So I am wondering if a switch of speakers to something like the wharfedale dentons 25th anniversary (reviewed as warm speakers) may get me there. Or is it nigh impossible to achieve as long as the amp is not a tube amp ? My budget is maximum £700.

 

[plastic penguin]

I have demoed tube amplifiers and loved the sound but they are typically bigger in size than solid state integrated, and requires more breathing space (headroom), which is an issue, as I have space limitations. Furthermore to get a decent tube integrated with a remote will cost more. So I am just wondering if I can achieve similar sound by using warm speakers connected to the right solid state amplifier, since speakers should have the biggest influence on overall sound. From the responses here, it seems like the amplifier (ss vs valve) influences the sound more than speakers.

Obviously a valve amp fails your practical side. In that case you should be looking at Nad, Arcam, midrange Marantz... etc etc etc. No, they won't give you a valve sound but will have more solidity than Leema, Cyrus, Naim, Rotel to name but a few.

It's like saying can I get my Fiat Punto to come close to a Ferrari? Two different set-ups. Two different price tags.

 

[plastic penguin]

My budget is maximum £700.

No, in that case, unless you go s/hand.

 

[CnoEvil]

I have the marantz pearl lites (amp and cd) and a pair of boston acoustics a25. I feel I am getting the smoothness from this setup but still not the warmth or texture of sound I hear from tube amp demoes. So I am wondering if a switch of speakers to something like the wharfedale dentons 25th anniversary (reviewed as warm speakers) may get me there. Or is it nigh impossible to achieve as long as the amp is not a tube amp ? My budget is maximum £700.

You could keep an eye out for an ex-dem/used Unison Research Unico Primo, which is a hybrid amp.