How To Getting home cinema from AVR to wires in other room

[GIG]

Hi,

we recently moved into a new place with a large and open living room. In one corner, all plugs and cables are there for tv. Downside is that my wife does not want cables and speakers in the middle of the room (which I can understand as there is no clean solution).
However - and here comes the complex part - wires are already available in the four corners of the room as well as two on the mezzanine above the room (ceiling speakers if you want). There are also wires running to the kitchen and bathroom, but that is less relevant. Now: all things are in place to set up the tv in the living room, except for all cables that come out of the wall in the attic.

In short: any solutions for brining audio of the home cinema arriving in one place to the wires starting in a completely different place? Went to several stores, but no solution yet (last oral proposal was a Sonos Arc and a bunch of amps)

I currently use two Klipsch RF52 II speakers as left and right channel and hifi. AVR, Center speakers can be upgraded. Also willing to completely separate hifi and home cinema if that would help.

many thanks for the input.

 

[Arron]

Maybe go wireless? That way you only need power to the speakers.
E.g. https://hub.yamaha.com/audio/tv/musiccast-wireless-surround-the-next-chapter-in-home-theater/

One very, very WAG-friendly option is new to the market. (I don't particularly trust this reviewer but this gives you options.)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHcjvdGbaa0

 

[GIG]

Going wireless might be the only option in the end, but true wireless does not really exist: you either need speaker wire or a power plug. And it seems a waste to not use it, when you have good speaker wire hanging out of the wall.

Because of this I was hoping for some hybrid solution to get the “data” wireless from the AVR receiver to an amp in the attic which in turn would the existing speaker wire.

 

[Arron]

There are so many variables.
A lot of this depends on your ears. Are you a regular person or audiophile?
If your ears are good, are you sure the previous owner also knew how to set things up and put speakers in good places?
You say there is speaker cable already there. Is it decent cable?
If it's cheap cable, could you use it to pull through better cable or power?
Would the total distance from amp to speakers be less than 15m? (That's about the max for speaker cables.)
Does your receiver have pre-out? I.e. could you have power amps in the attic?
How big is the room?
You mention a mezzanine. which often means terrible acoustics . Have you tried a temp setup yet?

What would I do? Relax and take time. Try lots of arrangements. Move the furniture around. Maybe your sofa is a different size so the room is more comfortable another way around. Make the audio setup the last thing to lock into place. Just because the previous owner put cable in place doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. Maybe you'll want the room a different way once you've spent a while living there and listened to your speakers in various places.

 

[GIG]

Thanks, some good points. Rest assured, not rushing it and almost living here for a year now.

You say there is speaker cable already there. Is it decent cable?
If it's cheap cable, could you use it to pull through better cable or power?
Would the total distance from amp to speakers be less than 15m? (That's about the max for speaker cables.)

The cable is of good quality, but the 15m in length is a good question! Most of it is completely worked in, so not visible. If done efficiently it should be possible, but can imagine this is not always the case.

Does your receiver have pre-out? I.e. could you have power amps in the attic?

The current one does not, but that is slowly but surely up for replacement (only covering full HD for instance). This was one of the routes I was looking into. A bit in line with what one of the local audio centers proposed with the Sonos amps (although that started adding up very quickly).

How big is the room?
You mention a mezzanine. which often means terrible acoustics . Have you tried a temp setup yet?

The room is more or less 8m by 8m. That being said, all is open and spacious with the ceiling at almost 6m height... Great for light, killing for sound and the heating bill. It was terrible when we first moved in, but with some carpets, new sofa's, some paintings and plants, it has improved drastically, but it is not a movie theatre just yet.

As I certainly am closer to the audiophile than a "regular" person, I indeed seriously consider as an alternative to go for a decent movie experience and completely separate the hifi-part to a different location.

 

[Arron]

One thing worth noting is I rarely head into hifi shops so there might be loads of really obvious answers that I know nothing about. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will pitch up if we rattle enough ideas around.

The cable is of good quality, but the 15m in length is a good question! Most of it is completely worked in, so not visible. If done efficiently it should be possible, but can imagine this is not always the case.

If you're only using the cable for surround rear and Atmos, you might get away with longer cable.

The current one does not, but that is slowly but surely up for replacement (only covering full HD for instance). This was one of the routes I was looking into. A bit in line with what one of the local audio centers proposed with the Sonos amps (although that started adding up very quickly).

Not a fan of Sonos. To me, they're like Bose, i.e. more about style than musicality/fidelity and cost far more than they're worth.

The room is more or less 8m by 8m. That being said, all is open and spacious with the ceiling at almost 6m height... Great for light, killing for sound and the heating bill. It was terrible when we first moved in, but with some carpets, new sofa's, some paintings and plants, it has improved drastically, but it is not a movie theatre just yet.

That's a big room to fill. The more you come up with, the more lean towards those Sonys I linked. Or wait until other firms catch up with the tech behind them. You're going to have some odd reflections and that DSP tech Sony came up with might well solve them.

As I certainly am closer to the audiophile than a "regular" person, I indeed seriously consider as an alternative to go for a decent movie experience and completely separate the hifi-part to a different location.

To me, unless you're going to spend a huge amount, the best value is if you can have hifi and cinema in one. Essentially, if you add the cost of both together and buy a cinema system of that price, you'll have something pretty serious.

Some obvious points:
If you can, you want Klipsch surrounds and centre. Every manufacturer has a distinct sound and each speaker in the range has a sound. The ideal is to have exactly the same speakers for everything. The next closest is to have speakers with the same drivers from the same manufacturer.
In a room that big, you almost certainly want two subs.

 

[GIG]

Thanks Arron for al the input!

Indeed not entirely convinced of the Sonos solutions. They do get good reviews, but all aimed at one ecosystem and functionalities are second to user friendliness and broad applicability (which is a valid choice of course).

It seems there are not that many solutions to my problem. Looked a bit into pre-out in combination with transmitter and receiver, but latency issues seem to limit surround capabilities.

A solution like the one of Sony or a soundbar seem the only feasible ones unfortunately.

 

[Arron]

Thanks Arron for al the input!

Indeed not entirely convinced of the Sonos solutions. They do get good reviews, but all aimed at one ecosystem and functionalities are second to user friendliness and broad applicability (which is a valid choice of course).

It seems there are not that many solutions to my problem. Looked a bit into pre-out in combination with transmitter and receiver, but latency issues seem to limit surround capabilities.

A solution like the one of Sony or a soundbar seem the only feasible ones unfortunately.

You don't have to settle for a soundbar. Your Klipsches just in stereo will sound better than any soundbar. Klipsch also does some wireless speakers. Maybe get in contact with them and find out if they can be used for surround?

Going back over your original post, it sounds like the previous owner had something fairly specific worked out and wired in. Any way to get in contact with them and ask?

Otherwise, here's something worth pondering. If you ripped out all of those old cables and started again, it would probably be let's say £800 work for a tradesman to come in and do it. So don't spend £2000 fixing an £800 problem

 

[Arron]

Heh, WHF just reviewed the Sony:
https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/sony-ht-a9

 

[GIG]

Going back over your original post, it sounds like the previous owner had something fairly specific worked out and wired in. Any way to get in contact with them and ask?

The previous owners passed away, so that might be hard. I have the impression that in the attic, they wanted to make a real home cinema with multiple connections foreseen and all other speaker wire arriving there. The other locations throughout the house seem to be just for tv and I assume the speaker wire (which they have not used themselves!) is purely intended for multiroom. Only in the kitchen did they install some speakers (Kef). They also did not finish the room in the attic, so it has been left unused all this time.

Will check out the Sony and just noticed that the shop where I have bought my current AVR and Klisch speakers is retiring. Might be worthwhile to see if they have something (like wireless Klipsch) for a good price.

 

[Arron]

The previous owners passed away, so that might be hard. I have the impression that in the attic, they wanted to make a real home cinema with multiple connections foreseen and all other speaker wire arriving there. The other locations throughout the house seem to be just for tv and I assume the speaker wire (which they have not used themselves!) is purely intended for multiroom. Only in the kitchen did they install some speakers (Kef). They also did not finish the room in the attic, so it has been left unused all this time.

Will check out the Sony and just noticed that the shop where I have bought my current AVR and Klisch speakers is retiring. Might be worthwhile to see if they have something (like wireless Klipsch) for a good price.

I may have found another option for you. My Yamaha 3080 is sat so close to my listening position that I don't even use the remote so forgive me for not thinking of this sooner. The Yam is fully networked up and can be controlled using an iPad.

What does this mean? It means the Yam (or an amp in the same class) can sit in the attic with the speaker cables and you can sit downstairs. Want to change the volume or source? Just open the iPad.

Your current amp might already be able to do this.

 

[GIG]

I may have found another option for you. My Yamaha 3080 is sat so close to my listening position that I don't even use the remote so forgive me for not thinking of this sooner. The Yam is fully networked up and can be controlled using an iPad.

What does this mean? It means the Yam (or an amp in the same class) can sit in the attic with the speaker cables and you can sit downstairs. Want to change the volume or source? Just open the iPad.

Your current amp might already be able to do this.

My current amp is too old, but sounds like a good solution. Only question I have: how do you get the tv connected?

 

[Arron]

My current amp is too old, but sounds like a good solution. Only question I have: how do you get the tv connected?

You'd need to feed an HDMI cable down for the TV and up for any sources you want in the room. If that's more than 10m, you'd probably need to use CAT6 cable and adapters -- two CAT6 cables for each HDMI cable.

It's worth noting the amp's room setup would be a bit messy and time-consuming if you go this route.

My inclination is to say, ignore the existing speaker wire for now. Plan the arrangement you want that will give the best sound and the space you want. Get your stereo speaker placement and imaging* right first. If the existing speaker wire helps you achieve the rest, it's a bonus.

*Imaging makes more difference to enjoyment than surround. Do it right and your stereo speakers will create a phantom centre speaker. Here's an old post on how. It puts the band in the room.

 

[GIG]

Just as an update. Was looping into Some wireless connections possibilities as for instance with subwoofers this seems to become a common thing. Stumbled upon the marmitek surround anywhere 221. Have not been able to test it with the surround (have no speakers connected yet), but tested it with some music on the in-ceiling speakers in the kitchen and that worked just fine. That should at least give a short term “clean” solution.
By searching also noticed that a small family business I used to visit (real enthousiast who are more into helping rather than selling) is retiring and selling everything at very sharp prices. Used the opportunity to upgrade the AVR (no 4K throughout, no app, no streaming,…) to a Denon with Heos and buy the same speakers for around the house (B&W M1).
Over time some upgrades will be needed, but also still considering the idea mentioned above the move the AVR up in the attic and get the video signal down rather than getting all audio channels up.