Does DAC quality really matter?

[steve_1979]

You're thinking of TOSLINK – S/PDIF can use either a 75ohm coaxial electrical connection or an optical one terminated with TOSLINK connectors.

Yes I was referring to an SPDIF connection using an optical TOSLINK rather than coaxial. I probably should have been more clear on that point.

 

[spiny norman]

With a USB connection which is electrically conductive if you get an electrical fault with either the DAC or amp there is a small chance it could damage the other components in your hifi. But with a SPDIF cable it's made out of non-conductive optical plastic so it adds an extra layer of electrical isolation between components.

That's just as likely with an optical connection from source to DAC: an electrical fault in either DAC or amp could still damage other components in your audio system.

The main advantage of an optical connection between computer and DAC is the removal of the chance of ground loops and the fact electrical noise from the computer won't get through to the DAC; the disadvantage (at least when compare with asynchronous USB) is that the clocking of the 'sending' and 'receiving' devices isn't linked, so there's more chance of jitter.

However, just as most DACs have strategies to tackle timing errors between sending and receiving devices, so most designs offering asynchronous USB employ techniques to tackle any noise potentially on the USB line.

 

[crusaderlord]

Yes i think DACs just as CD players will give you different presentations and sound quality. My own experience doesnt say they are better than CD players but they can certainly make streaming music better. I recently moved from a Musical Fidelity M1 DAC to the Arcam irDAC and it was a big improvement to me, a much more solid sound with better and fuller bass and also much closer to my Arcam CD37. I am very happy to have changed the DAC. Others i have tried in the past have been the MF V-DAC (demo) and Arcam rDAC (owned) and a Cambridge Audio (demo). The latest irDAC is the best one i have tried.

 

[steve_1979]

That's just as likely with an optical connection from source to DAC: an electrical fault in either DAC or amp could still damage other components in your audio system...

I agree that having an electrical fault in your DAC could still cause damage to other components in your hifi when using a TOSLINK. But having an extra layer of electrical isolation between components reduces the chance of that happening.

 

[spiny norman]

I agree that having an electrical fault in your DAC could still cause damage to other components in your hifi when using a TOSLINK. But having an extra layer of electrical isolation between components reduces the chance of that happening.

Yes, but TOSLINK provides no protection between the audio components, only between the source and the DAC. I really don't think worrying about the minute chance of a fault causing a problem is any reason for choosing one method of digital transmission over another, unless the components in your system are so flaky that the chances of damaging faults are higher than usual.

 

[steve_1979]

Yes, but TOSLINK provides no protection between the audio components, only between the source and the DAC. I really don't think worrying about the minute chance of a fault causing a problem is any reason for choosing one method of digital transmission over another, unless the components in your system are so flaky that the chances of damaging faults are higher than usual.

I agree that the chances of an electrical fault in the DAC damaging the amp is incredibly small and I'd be perfectly happy to use USB. But given the choice I'd still choose a TOSLINK for that reason.

 

[steve_1979]

...Personally I prefer SPDIF because it sounds identical to a USB connection (to my ears with the DAC's I've heard) and has the added safety benefit of electrically isolating the DAC from the amp...

EDIT - I mean it isolates the DAC from the source not the DAC from the amp. :doh:

 

[jaxwired]

I can tell you that having owned some DACs in the $1k to $2k range I was amazed at how good the more affordable micromega mydac sounds.

 

[Womaz]

I can tell you that having owned some DACs in the $1k to $2k range I was amazed at how good the more affordable micromega mydac sounds.

So a £260 or so DAC with 8K speakers and high end amp and you are saying the DAC is good enough? That is just what I was wondering, does a high end DAC add much.....you seem happy with a cheaper DAC.

 

[hoojtune73]

hi people, couldnt agree more

had 3 different dacs over the last year ranging from £200-£700 and very little difference indeed.in the end whent back to my old rotel pre/power combo and invested in a set of tannoy dc6ts and got the rich full fat sound i had been looking for settling for an arcam ir dac

 

[Native_bon]

well i just got the v90 dac to try out & its the best thing I have brought 4 a long time as far as hifi is concern. Thsi v90 out performs my Rega and M-DAC. Yes this dac does made a difference. opened pure sound Its not going back. Any one 4 a rega or M-dac?

 

[jaxwired]

I can tell you that having owned some DACs in the $1k to $2k range I was amazed at how good the more affordable micromega mydac sounds.

So a £260 or so DAC with 8K speakers and high end amp and you are saying the DAC is good enough? That is just what I was wondering, does a high end DAC add much.....you seem happy with a cheaper DAC.

yes, happy with the micormega DAC. I do think DACs sound different though. How different is a matter of opinion.

 

[cannibal_ox77]

There's been a lot said recently across various threads about whether transports & DACs make a difference. I've been using the Marantz NA7004 via co-axial into my Audiolab 8200CDQ for a few months, but today for the first time I plugged it into the analogue pre-amp inputs on the CDQ to compare.

Now switching between the digital (using the CDQs DAC) and analogue, I can't really hear much difference at all. I knew the NA7004 network player had a good DAC anyway so wasn't expecting to hear a massive difference. I was expecting more than I found though!

if anything, I prefer the sound of the Marantz through the analogue outputs - what makes a more noticeable difference to the sound is switching between analogue & digital preamp options on the CDQ, with analogue slightly smoother and warmer, digital as expected more clinical and sharper. Still, not a massive difference there either.

 

[drummerman]

well i just got the v90 dac to try out & its the best thing I have brought 4 a long time as far as hifi is concern. Thsi v90 out performs my Rega and M-DAC. Yes this dac does made a difference. opened pure sound Its not going back. Any one 4 a rega or M-dac?

Are you collecting DAC's??

regards

 

[Native_bon]

well i just got the v90 dac to try out & its the best thing I have brought 4 a long time as far as hifi is concern. Thsi v90 out performs my Rega and M-DAC. Yes this dac does made a difference. opened pure sound Its not going back. Any one 4 a rega or M-dac?

Are you collecting DAC's??

regards

:rofl: I got two systems.. A Marantz in a second room with tannoy R2 speakers which I use with the M-dac and the Rega dac for my main system. But a friend give me a V90 2 try out.. & its not goin back.. funny you said that cause I ordered another V90 today.. The M-dac & Rega dacs are goin.

 

[ifor]

Are you collecting DAC's??

regards

And why not? Some people collect turntables! :rofl:

 

[drummerman]

Are you collecting DAC's??

regards

And why not? Some people collect turntables! :rofl:

Ah yes, forgot about that 🙂

regards

 

[Womaz]

This has been a great post and I have enjoyed watching it progress.

Are we really saying that a Linn 4K streamer will not sound very different to a Pioneer say at £400?. Or shall i rephrase that and say not that much better.

Of course the only way is to audition, but this is difficult to do.

What i am taking from this post is the streamer/dac is the least important part of the system. Speakers and Amps are the main driver of sound quality.

If this is the case then how can manufacturers market and sell 5k dac/streamer products succesfully??

 

[Trefor Patten]

If this is the case then how can manufacturers market and sell 5k dac/streamer products succesfully??

Well, the same way that car manufacturers sell vehicles capable of 200mph when the speed limit is 70 and the likelihood of reaching 30 for any distance in a major city is remote. Or the way dress designers sell a little black number with one metre of cloth in it for £600 and more...... As for hi-fi mains cables, hmmmm. Manufacturers sell at the price the consumer will tolerate. Ever thought about how cheap razor blades are to manufacture, or 'energy drinks' what about mineral water?

 

[fr0g]

This has been a great post and I have enjoyed watching it progress.

Are we really saying that a Linn 4K streamer will not sound very different to a Pioneer say at £400?. Or shall i rephrase that and say not that much better.

I would not be surprised if the 4K streamer sounded worse in some cases.

Although in most cases I would imagine they would not be ABX-able from one another.

I would personally choose a streamer based on functionality.

 

[Native_bon]

This has been a great post and I have enjoyed watching it progress.

Are we really saying that a Linn 4K streamer will not sound very different to a Pioneer say at £400?. Or shall i rephrase that and say not that much better.

Of course the only way is to audition, but this is difficult to do.

What i am taking from this post is the streamer/dac is the least important part of the system. Speakers and Amps are the main driver of sound quality.

If this is the case then how can manufacturers market and sell 5k dac/streamer products succesfully??

The answer to your question would be Price does not always determine good performance.. We tend to follow?... Only few really listen than follow... Very few.. So its easy to sell items of that price to the public. Dnt get me wrong some items expensive do sound good, very few & inbetween.

When we are dealing things like dacs or cdps.. things like seperation & musicality that really makes a difference. Layers of under pinning details & the way the source presents the music. When it comes to amps & speakers you will be dealing with change of sound in terms of power, control of speakers by amp.. How speakers interact with room acoustics. Speakers may emphasize a particular frequency range through design. If the source is not musical you cannot get this down the line of the system.

I can only go by my lastest purchase that some source items are far more musical & at the same time easy on the ear. & at budget price.

 

[matt49]

This has been a great post and I have enjoyed watching it progress.

Are we really saying that a Linn 4K streamer will not sound very different to a Pioneer say at £400?. Or shall i rephrase that and say not that much better.

Of course the only way is to audition, but this is difficult to do.

What i am taking from this post is the streamer/dac is the least important part of the system. Speakers and Amps are the main driver of sound quality.

I'd just add two things.

A high-end hi-fi streamer is giving you more than just streaming capability. It'll normally contains a DAC and a preamp, and in some models power amplification. You'll also get a proprietary streaming user interface, very smart casework and (one would assume) high-quality components. And then there's the theoretical advantage of having all the digital stuff run by one clock. Whether this stuff makes any difference to SQ, and whether you want all that functionality -- these are other matters altogether.

If this is the case then how can manufacturers market and sell 5k dac/streamer products succesfully??

I should think most people who buy high-end hi-fi streamers do so in the belief, which they may have tested to their own satisfaction, that such streamers provide better SQ. But there are certainly some people who buy these boxes for other reasons. I can think of one chap on the PFM forum who says he bought his Linn Akurate DS because it looks nice and he likes Linn as a company, and yet he openly says that a basic PC would give equally good SQ. YMMV, as they say.Matt

 

[Womaz]

Yes I chose my Network player for the functions and it has an I pad app to search the music. I also chose it as I had been keen to get the MF amp for some time. It also has the same DAC in as the MI DAC which has got some good reviews.

I also love the display, which shoes the album cover and all of the track details, and its big enough to see too :clap:

If I was looking to upgrade I dont think it would be a better network player I would go for. It was £1200 , I doubt I could improve on it much by splasing out say 4k on a Linn/ Naim product, but like I say an audition is the only way.

TBH i think I may have reached the point where I am happy that I wont need to upgrade again unless I really want to or come into some serious cash.

Ok then maybe some new speakers 🙂 I love the PMCs so might look at the 24s or the new 26s in the future.

 

[Thaiman]

This is a strange question :?

Does DAC quality really matter? It certainly does sir. Now that doesn't mean finding a quality on would be an easy task. Many digital products sharing the same chipset and power supply, that's why some of them sounded far too similar to worry about too much.