Do I really need a sub?

[jacobmorrison]

I have my Yamaha RX-V771 feeding a front pair of Monitor Audio BR5s with BR2 rears and a BRC centre. It’s a small lounge, pretty square, and the speakers are optimally positioned. The bass from this bi-amped setup is pretty impressive already. Watching Star Trek into Darkness last night the music from the club where Scotty gets drunk was really making the floor shake.

My question is would a subwoofer really add anything substantial to this setup? Do subs only have an effect on the overall bass produced, or is the entire tonal balance of the system affected once the front speakers are not given the full spectrum to reproduce? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[jonathanRD]

The BR5's are known to have good deep base, so it might not make that much difference, but they won't go as low as a dedicated sub.
It depends on whether you have the room.

I love the deep rumble my sub gives that really adds to the film experience.

Hopefully someone who has the BR5/BX5's and a sub can comment.

 

[mr malarky]

Yes.

 

[Paul.]

I have BR5, I would say yes. Sure it sounds bassy with no sub, but it's a very directional bass. subs are fun . Not sure about the BX sub, but the BR sub was considered a weakness so I went for a REL T3.

 

[ellisdj]

with no sub your missing a whole channel from sound tracks you are watching

The receiver will decode it into the rest of the system but that's additional processing you don't ideally want.

Just having a sub doesn't guarantee deep bass - it depends on where in the room it is / you sit - but that's the same for the speakers as well.

However there are not many setups that will not benefit from the addition of a subwoofer - and if you are looking for best bang for buck its BK All day

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Sorry if this is unnecessary - have you told your Yamaha RX-V771 that you are NOT using a subwoofer, so that it sends the Low Frequency Effect signals to the front pair of speakers? If you haven't, do so now, and you'll be even more impressed!
As to the meat of your question, my answer is "Yes, but ...") At the moment I'm having to do without a subwoofer in the kitchen, since it turns out that my SVS PC12-Plus has a more serious fault than a blown fuse. So I've told the receiver that I'm not using a subwoofer, and hence it's sending the LFE to the front speakers. I have to say, and here I disagree with many on these forums, that for most of the time the sub is not really missed, because as it happens my front speakers (Eltax Shine eight) are pretty capable, with a side-firing 8-inch woofer. There are a few occasions, such as in the scene in the Drive blu-ray starring Ryan Gosling, where he has just killed the man in the lift, and the lift door opens. I heard that very, very deep note when the SVS subwoofer was working, and I don't quite hear it now that I'm forced to use my Eltax Shine 8's as emergency subs! But for most of the time, I don't really miss the sub. It depends on how bass-capable your front speakers are. Mine are not bad.
All that means that in order to notice the effect of a subwoofer, if you do decide to buy one, you'll probably have to spend at least £600, I guess something like the Tannoy TS2.12 would be a minimum for you to notice any improvement on your current arrangement.

 

[bigboss]

In my opinion, a sub is the most important speaker component in a home cinema system.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Ha! I knew you'd come in here, bigboss! Anticipating that, I did say above:

I have to say, and here I disagree with many on these forums

You'll notice that I don't disagree that a good subwoofer would enhance things. The important bit is good. How much would you say, bigboss, that he would need to spend on a sufficiently good subwoofer? Could you give a few examples of decent subs?

 

[super]

YES.... I have two.

 

[jacobmorrison]

Hi Everyone. Thanks for your feedback.

In my opinion, a sub is the most important speaker component in a home cinema system.

Wow. Controversal! I think I'd rather hear dialogue clearly than have my floors shake but that's just my preference!

I've investigated BK subs and I must admit I'm tempted by the XLS200. I might see the impact a small sub makes then take it from there. If anyone has other recommendations for compact subs then let me know.

Cheers

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Hello Jacobmorrison,

I don't think that you've answered my question?

Sorry if this is unnecessary - have you told your Yamaha RX-V771 that you are NOT using a subwoofer, so that it sends the Low Frequency Effect signals to the front pair of speakers? If you haven't, do so now, and you'll be even more impressed!

 

[Frank Harvey]

A quality subwoofer is designed to reproduce frequencies that hi-fi speakers cannot. Sure, you can listen to any AV system without a sub, and it'll be fine as the majority of the signal (available through the rest of the five speakers) will give you all the information you need to understand dialogue and what is going on. In this respect, the subwoofer is the least important (you can turn it off and still watch a film). But, the ultimate performance of the system as a whole is affected by the bass (whether that be from the speakers or the subwoofer). Relieving the speakers of the need to reproduce low frequencies improves their performance across the midrange frequencies that the mid/bass driver produces, and will also have an effect on how you perceive the higher frequencies. This is why I will usually use a universal crossover point of 80Hz in systems that I set up, and indeed my own at home.

It is one thing to have a high quality subwoofer, it is then a case of using it correctly. Placement is important, and ideally, some sort of EQ system - most receivers don't EQ subwoofer frequencies (only Onkyo, Denon and Marantz that have Audyssey XT32, and Anthem receivers with their ARC EQ), so a sub EQ like Antimode should be investigated in order to get the most from it.

 

[jacobmorrison]

Hi Son_of_SJ. Yes I am sending the LF info to the front speakers. Cheers for the advice!

 

[kinda]

I think it's a case of benefit versus cost really.

I'm not bothered so much about the floor shaking and similar but what I do think a sub gives that speakers don't is an actual feel to some sounds . With a correctly implemented sub when there's an impact on screen or other very low effect you sort of feel it in your stomach, and it can make the action more real.

Also, placement of the bass source in a room can be key for making it sound good, and obviously with a separate sub you've got much more freedom of placement than with the other speakers, (there's no issue of detecting that bass isn't coming from the same location as other sounds as the location of low frequency sounds can't be determined by the ear - it's non directional).

But all that said I also agree that if you have good full range speakers you won't notice having no sub very often, (even with smaller speakers that only go to 80Hz I've once or twice left the sub off and not noticed for a while), and if you're happy with the sound you're getting why spend a few hundred pounds that could go toward something else?

I wonder if there are companies that let you try and return a sub or maybe you could get a local dealer to let you demo one at home. you could then see if it gave you enough extra to justify the outlay.