Differences between Unison Research Unico and Unico Primo

[Audioholic]

I'm a bit confused by Unson Research's range of amps! Is the Unico Primo a more advanced design than the original Unico?.. because specs wise it is less powerful but being about 8 years newer I expected it would sound better than the unico.

The unico can be had s/h for quite a bit cheaper than a new Primo - is it lacking much if anything that the Unico Primo has?

Also what speaker models from relatively mainstream brands for less than a grand would you recommend for partnering with either the above 2 amps and Unico CD player?

Thanks in advance!

Jonny

 

[Audioholic]

^

 

[Anonymous]

Have a look at the Unison Research website. Basically it's a less powerful version of the Unico using slightly different components. Note that the Unico P has a phono stage built-in, while on the Unico it's optional.

Don't worry about the 8 year time gap. Unison Research do not change their products as frequently as other companies seem to.

Excellent amps, by the way. What speakers do you intend to use?

 

[Audioholic]

I am thinking of opting for a level 2 modded Unico (performed by Underwood hifi - which is incidentally based in America) but although I can hear the Unico Primo I don't have easy access to the original Unico, which is why I was interested if anyone could compare it to the original.

I am not sure about the speakers, although I do quite like both the Totem Arro's and Epos M12i.

 

[Anonymous]

I've only heard the Unison Research Unico, and that was with Sonus Faber Domus concertos and the Minima. The sound was fabulous to my ears - full, rich, tight bass, perhaps not the last ounce of detail but something you could listen to all day without bleeding ears.

Pacey and fast the sound wasn't, though, but that might have been the SFs. The Epos speakers you mention are more towards the now omnipresent PRAT/forward presentation end of things so aren't really comparable.

I've also heard the Arros, but with a Naim Nait 5i. To me they sucked the life out of what is one of the livelier amps, but then I've never managed to come to terms with Totem speakers.

What mods do Underwood do?

 

[Audioholic]

Thanks a lot for your reply Tarquinh!

Basically my hifi searching has led me all over the place.

My 'system' - if u can call it that! (more a random collection of differerent hifi gear) is a bit all over the place and largely the result of slightly spontaneous ebaying! Although it has let me get components at much cheaper prices than their RRPs, it's probably not amazingly matched. Anyway, I started off with a Bose wave system that's pretty good for it's size, but obviously it's limited in terms of soundstage and is quite a veiled sound. We've had this is at home since my Grandad passed away, who mainly used it to listen to radio, and it got passed on to us.

In the lounge I'd listen to the Bose and in my bedroom I'd listen to tunes off windows media player with my creative itrique 3100 2.1 speakers plugged into a Creative X-fi soundcard. It sounded really very good, especially just for listening on my own.

Last October I got an iPhone, and wanted to marry this idea I had in my head of having a hifi in the lounge and lossless files rather than a CDP as a source, or at least have the flexibility to play files as an alternative source to CDs. It came up in conversation that my driving instructor had an old Pioneer hifi from 1982 he wanted to get rid of to clear space cos he didn't use it now as much as he wanted to.

I tried plugging the Bose in, switching the volume of the Bose down to minimum and up on the Pioneer SA-130 amp into the CS-363 speakers that came with them, and was taken back by it's power at just 4 (/10) on the slider control! The speakers were kinda monstrosities and I decided I could get a decent step up from upgrading them, because they sounded slightly bloated and did not fit our lounge that well. Attracted by the fact that it was a design that suited wall reinforcement and seemed capable of producing quite a dynamic sound, I bought a pair of Monitor Audio Br2s with custom design stands.

Now I had a system that really sounded quite impressive which had cost me no more than £150. I still wanted to utilise file playback from my iphone and Dad's iPod though and opted for the Arcam rDock, believing that although it was still 'limited' to analogue output (thus using the ipod's DAC) unlike a Wadia i710 for instace, it would not impose the same barrier to performance from the source that getting an Apple universal dock would, provided I used lossless files.

I had the Arcam rDock and Bose feeding the Pioneer SA-130, powering the MA BR2s for a while (and with the idea of updating my hifi chain not going away!) I was curious if changing the SA-130 would bring an improvement. I think maybe I should have stopped there having arrived at a pretty decent system for £250. I thought to really get much of a step up from the Pioneer though I'd have to be looking around the Naim's level.

I was impressed enough with the Nait 5i in an audition to order one, but having had it for a while I kind of regret doing so, cos the Nait seems to accentuate the slight brightness of the MA BR2s. Although the Naim probably would be more of a step up if I changed my speakers now as well to a pair that suits such as the Epos or Neat Motive 3 etc and got maybe a Rega apollo, I'd end up looking at a substantial outlay.

I am really attracted to the idea of the Unisons and think they would sound less harsh. For a sound that's as bass heavy as the Naim I find the lack of tone controls quite annoying, which the Pioneer has. Now, I would be looking at keeping the Naim because the rdock is less of a loud and less forward presentation than the bose and just generally more natural if less punchy (this is what I discoverd when doing a blind test with both on the Pioneer amp)... However, annoyingly there's a really loud humming sound emanating from the speakers when I connect the Arcam rDock to the Nait's CD input (which I was told was the right one). Mind it's the same using the AV input instead! So, as far as I can tell my options are ditching the Arcam rDock and home demo a Wadia 170i using the SPDIF output into the Nait if I want to keep the Nait amp and maintain ipod playability at decent quality. I've tried plugging into a different mains point and the sound does not stop. If there is no hum than I could opt for this, but I still regard as not a good match for the MA BR2s. I really shouldn't have bought the Nait having only demoed on other speakers. My thinking though was that my current speakers could at least serve for an interim period before I considered pricier standmounters like the Ruark Sabres.

So keeping the Nait 5i will be a pretty costly affair cos it wil require changing the rest of the system. Despite the hard treble and overblown bass with the Bose as a source, and hum with the rDock, they do sound great with acoustic stuff and anything more laidback. Hand them rock music (Which generally seems to be regarded as as a genre which the Nait's are strong on) and they're excessive, but with conveying emotion in voices such as Tracey Chapman in Revolution or Fast care they really soar and actually are very exciting but not at the expense of souding natural and if they the singer is in the room . However, as an all rounder with the BR2s I prefer the 27 year old Pioneer. True I need a more revealing monitor to reveal the detail the Naim are capable of, but I still can get a fair impression of their potential and I'm surprised that, to my ears, in terms of conveying detail, amplifiers have not moved on more from the Pioneer - the main difference is different in presentation.

Before I decide to sell the Nait though, I wondered if the hum problem with the rDock might be because of a rubbish DC in cable - could this be the case?

If the DC cable is not to blame and the rDock and nait 5i are just incompatible I could either keep the set up as it is, which works great despite the lack of ability to control the rDock's volume. Of course I could have gone for the Solo music or mini (former went for a bargain of £510 on ebay recently) but I was persuaded the separates route would have more longevity. If I sell the Naim I'm likely to make a £50 loss once the cost of delivery is taken into account, but it's not too great!

Ah, my head hurts. Sorry for the length of this post. By the way I'm only 18 and don't have a massive music collection or a massive budget, but if I recoup almost all the money from the Naim (Which is a fair wad) than I could easily afford the Unison Research Unico if I like it in my system on a home demo from Guildford Audio. However, my perception from reading various threads mainly on What hifi but all over the net too, is that speakers become a 'limitation' much quicker than the actual source, and to a lesser extent, less quickly than the amplification.

 

[Anonymous]

My initial thought was that a used Unico would cost every bit as much as a used Nait, let alone the CDP, a £1.5k unit RRP. Anyway, I've heard the Unico P with CDP and was very impressed. The midrange was it's highlight, the treble being next and then the bass. The bass was good but may be very slightly wallowy compared to an in-class transistor amp (like the Cyrus 8vs2 I tried at the same time which sounded 'orrid in comparison). However you analyse it, the Unico hybrids are superb amps.

I heard them on the Sonus Faber Concerto Domus and Dynaudio Focus 110. The former were very nice but lacked punch and rhythm with the Unico. I wonder whether the SF need a fair bit more power to get the smoothness to show some punch. The Focus 110 were very good but I'd be careful about positioning due to the shocking level of (dry) bass being produced. This may have been partly down to the room but my reaction was one of fear of boom in my lounge. I know that the Dyns need super-current to perform and this might be why they sounded a bit unbalanced.

What would I partner it with? I'd probably head straight to the PMC DB1i as their neutrality would compliment the amp's smoothness.

 

[Audioholic]

If I decide to change the amplifier I could get the Unico for about £520 inc delivery which seems pretty good, or the Unico modded to level 2 by Underwood hifi online for £800 + delivery.

6moons audio review of the Unico modded to level 2 by Underwood had kind of ignited my interest! The link is here, and although they don't compare against the stock Unico, they seem to think the performance difference between the level 2 and level 1 unico is 'far from subtle' - review is here:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/unison2/unico.html

Underwood Hifi's page detailing the mod changes is here:

http://www.underwoodhifi.com/mod_unison.html

Do you reckon that the original unico modfiied to level 2 would compare well against the new Unico Primo and Secondo?

Thanks

Jonny

 

[Anonymous]

Audioholic:
If I decide to change the amplifier I could get the Unico for about £520 inc delivery which seems pretty good, or the Unico modded to level 2 by Underwood hifi online for £800 + delivery.

6moons audio review of the Unico modded to level 2 by Underwood had kind of ignited my interest! The link is here, and although they don't compare against the stock Unico, they seem to think the performance difference between the level 2 and level 1 unico is 'far from subtle' - review is here:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/unison2/unico.html

Underwood Hifi's page detailing the mod changes is here:

http://www.underwoodhifi.com/mod_unison.html

Do you reckon that the original unico modfiied to level 2 would compare well against the new Unico Primo and Secondo?

Thanks

Jonny

Wouldn't have a clue I'm afraid. What I can say is that I believe after-market upgrades have the potential to be very cost effective and high performance. An after-market upgrader is likely to use very high quality components that are prohibitively expensive for use in mass production. The further cost of component matching and tuning may also play a role.

My Quad has been rebuilt as a Netaudio amp based on the original 405 design but with great improvements, using very high quality components. The cost to me to buy the amp and upgrade it, £500. The performance, staggering.

 

[Audioholic]

Anyone?

 

[Audioholic]

bump

 

[Audioholic]

Has anyone heard the original Unico and know how it compares to newer Unico models, like the Primo?

 

[Anonymous]

Audioholic,

I've only heard the Unison Research as I said, but perhaps it's worth persevering with the Nait5i, which I've heard in different systems and have found to be an excellent amp, if not .

Might be worth trying it with a CD player as source, to see if this is where half your problem is. The other half lies, as you say, with the speakers.

Both the Naim and the Unison Research are worthy of way better speakers than the BR2s, though they are good budget models. It's a touch arbitrary, but you should spend on the speakers as much if not more than you spend on the amp.

Buying the Unison Research will make the sound warmer, but you'll still have the same imbalance. I'd audition other speakers before selling the Naim and buying the Unison Research. Might save you some money in the long run, too.

 

[Audioholic]

Great advice! Thanks

 

[Audioholic]

Just put a deposit down for a pair of Ruark Sabres today. They were unbelievably good. What I would say is that the Epos M12i, which was the main speaker I was comparing it to,were great value for money, but the Sabres didn't fail to impress on everything I listened to. I started with Tracey Chapman's Revolution and it was just really lush, really communicative just like the reviews have picked out. For me there and then with a Nait 5i(2) and CD5i(2) I could not actually conceive of a better sound. Also listened to 'Simon' by Lifehouse, which was very lifelike and real. The Naim's aren't renowned for life-likeness usually so that surprised me!

I had to pay the shop to have them ordered in specially to listen to, but am really glad I pushed ahead, depsite the shopfloor manager originally saying that Ruark had not produced a competitive speaker in years. Now he likes them to the extent that he's thinking of stocking them. I asked him directly whether he himself preferred any speakers he'd listened to for under a grand, and he said no. He said to get what he would consider a step up I'd be looking at Audiovectors. Of course I could dismiss his conviction that they're the best speakers he's heard as pure salesmanship, but he seems to have spoken his mind regarding what he does and doesn't like so much about the components which they stock, so I believe him.

I have to admit, I never heard the Spendor SA1 which seems to be considered a top class standmount. But I was really stretching myself budget-wise with the Sabres. The PMC Db1i is great, but the Ruark just made me melt into the music more. I dunno if it was much better, but I just enjoyed the Ruarks more.
Value's pretty subjective - they're a little more than I'm really comfortable, but I no I'll have no what ifs with them. Well unless I hear the Spendors and they better the Sabres but I'm very happy. I now need to decide what to change my Bose source to. All I know is the Sabres are the front end - I've been told that speakers changes are usually more drastic than source ones, so have pluumped the greatest amount of money into this.

Despite what one would imagine would be a biased answer towards their newer designs, whe I emailed Unison Research asking for thier subjective thoughts on 'real world' differences between the Unico and " " Primo they said:

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"It is testimony to the fact that the original Unico design was basically
correct and hard to
improve upon that it has been in
production for so many years, and the the changes now incorporated
are
relatively minor ones. In addition to
the improvements to focus, speed and grip that I mentioned earlier, the Unico
Primo
probably has a tidier and more controlled low register.
Taken together, these things add up to a more convincing
sound." The impression I get from that response is that the diffeences are quite subtle although I imagine if comparing the Secondo to the Primo (i.e different models at different price points in Unison's current range) the differences are more noticeable. Do you think in my current situation using a Bose wave system as the source, effectively any separates CD player will be a night and day difference to the Bose? I obviously need to try it out - cos I'm either thinking of getting the Naim cd5i(2) - I got the impression I should aim for the matching CDP to get the best out of the nait - or selling the Nait 5i and pursuing the Unison Research idea? At the moment I am not stunned by the Nait 5i, but from listening today with the Nait 5i which according to most accounts is just a bit more refined, and matching CD5i(2), it's a very nice sound. I can get a used Unico Cd for the same price as a Cd5i(2) at £825.
What do you reckon I should do?

 

[Anonymous]

Audioholic:
Just put a deposit down for a pair of Ruark Sabres today. They were unbelievably good. What I would say is that the Epos M12i, which was the main speaker I was comparing it to,were great value for money, but the Sabres didn't fail to impress on everything I listened to. I started with Tracey Chapman's Revolution and it was just really lush, really communicative just like the reviews have picked out. For me there and then with a Nait 5i(2) and CD5i(2) I could not actually conceive of a better sound. Also listened to 'Simon' by Lifehouse, which was very lifelike and real. The Naim's aren't renowned for life-likeness usually so that surprised me!

I had to pay the shop to have them ordered in specially to listen to, but am really glad I pushed ahead, depsite the shopfloor manager originally saying that Ruark had not produced a competitive speaker in years. Now he likes them to the extent that he's thinking of stocking them. I asked him directly whether he himself preferred any speakers he'd listened to for under a grand, and he said no. He said to get what he would consider a step up I'd be looking at Audiovectors. Of course I could dismiss his conviction that they're the best speakers he's heard as pure salesmanship, but he seems to have spoken his mind regarding what he does and doesn't like so much about the components which they stock, so I believe him.

I have to admit, I never heard the Spendor SA1 which seems to be considered a top class standmount. But I was really stretching myself budget-wise with the Sabres. The PMC Db1i is great, but the Ruark just made me melt into the music more. I dunno if it was much better, but I just enjoyed the Ruarks more.
Value's pretty subjective - they're a little more than I'm really comfortable, but I no I'll have no what ifs with them. Well unless I hear the Spendors and they better the Sabres but I'm very happy. I now need to decide what to change my Bose source to. All I know is the Sabres are the front end - I've been told that speakers changes are usually more drastic than source ones, so have pluumped the greatest amount of money into this.

Despite what one would imagine would be a biased answer towards their newer designs, whe I emailed Unison Research asking for thier subjective thoughts on 'real world' differences between the Unico and " " Primo they said:

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"It is testimony to the fact that the original Unico design was basically
correct and hard to
improve upon that it has been in
production for so many years, and the the changes now incorporated
are
relatively minor ones. In addition to
the improvements to focus, speed and grip that I mentioned earlier, the Unico
Primo
probably has a tidier and more controlled low register.
Taken together, these things add up to a more convincing
sound." The impression I get from that response is that the diffeences are quite subtle although I imagine if comparing the Secondo to the Primo (i.e different models at different price points in Unison's current range) the differences are more noticeable. Do you think in my current situation using a Bose wave system as the source, effectively any separates CD player will be a night and day difference to the Bose? I obviously need to try it out - cos I'm either thinking of getting the Naim cd5i(2) - I got the impression I should aim for the matching CDP to get the best out of the nait - or selling the Nait 5i and pursuing the Unison Research idea? At the moment I am not stunned by the Nait 5i, but from listening today with the Nait 5i which according to most accounts is just a bit more refined, and matching CD5i(2), it's a very nice sound. I can get a used Unico Cd for the same price as a Cd5i(2) at £825.
What do you reckon I should do?

Tricky, but it's very tempting to suggest that you go with the matching Naim CDP. Synergy of kit can add up to a lot.

 

[Audioholic]

I am erring towards the Naim Cd5i and sticking with the Nait.

It's quite hard to sum up everything I'm thinking but the reason I am attracted to the Unison Research Unico modded to level 2 is:

a) it looks pretty nice + anything hand-made in Italy is a bit of a talking point

b) the end of WHF's review of the Sabre says:

"The treble is highly detailed, but can occasionally become hard and
aggressive. But if you sensibly choose balanced or smooth-sounding
partners, then you'll hear the Ruarks at their absolute best."

Is the Naim combo balanced and smooth sounding? I suppose the smooth sounding makes you think of Arcam, whose presentation is very different to Naim. The Primare CD31 is considered quite smooth and pops up on eBay now and again - do you think this would be better suited to the Sabre III or just different than the Naim combo?

Another review on the net commented how the next Cd player up the Naim ladder - the CD5x - 'sounds smooth, relaxed, unhurried and unforced. It makes
all other CD players I've heard sound distinctly 'digital'. The real
beauty is that this doesn't come at the cost of detail or dynamics.
This player actually also has a lot of drive, especially in the lower
frequencies. The bass is tight, deep and tuneful and connects very
well to the midrange, giving instruments like piano real substance.
There's no boom or woolliness to the bass at all. The mid region is
open and transparent and the high frequencies are crisp and detailed.
Overall, the impression is that nothing is left out and everything on
the disk is retrieved'.

If the Cd5i(2) is thought of as retaining this smoothness than it should be a good match one would think and it seemed to be today.

c) The Unico is considered pretty darn good by most people and the single review that seems to be avialble for the level 2 modded Unico describes a night and day difference when comparing level 1 and 2 mods. So assuming that the level 1 mod makes the Unico actually no worse than stock, it should sound phenomenally good with the right player, and the Unico CD I'm sure would be.

However, there's considerable hassle involved in selling anything if I decided to go for Unison Research. Also I cannot actually listen to a level 2 modded unit, so I would be buying the amp blind trusting in the 1 review to be found here

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/unison2/unico_2.html

As the reviewer himself points out he 'can only guess at the differences compared to the stocker', although the Unison Research Unico stocker did happen to win their Bluemoon award in 2002 and the review seemed to heap euphoric praise on it!

Going back to the Unico modded to level 2, the only reference to something negative in the whole review (Which seems surely quite a big confession) is when he mentions that he "detected a fair degree of hum and
low-level noise on both Unicos during idling or quiet passages. The
little Bryston, while not endowed with the sheer dynamic oomph and
resolving power of either Unison Research unit, was as quiet as a tomb."

This sounds like potentially quite a big issue he's pretty casually shedding light on, unless he's listening super critically or thinks its a fault of something else in his system!

That's pretty much the only thing putting me off getting the amp - that and the fact I'd be buying from overseas - I've currently been quoted £200 (yep, ouch) for insured delivery, so paying roughly £1000 total for a modded 8 year old amp design. I think most people would regard it as a timeless design, but some would say it's mad paying this much for anything almost a decade old, regardless of it's differences to the stocker.

 

[Anonymous]

Audioholic,

See if you can hear the Naim combination with your Ruarks before you make a decision. Unfortunately reviews can only go so far, and it's your ears that count.

I've made some expensive mistakes buying what looked like bargains over the internet.

 

[Audioholic]

The seller of the Unico modded to level 2 has said the price would be £950 (inc. delivery)

I've heard the Naim combination and liked it. I am wondering whether I can save a lot of cash by using the Rega Apollo which is generally considered excellent, especially for it's price. I think I'm going to do A/b tests with the Apollo against the Cd5i and if I don't really prefer the Naim combination, go with the Rega and save myself quite a lot.

 

[Anonymous]

Good choice! The Rega Apollo should be a good match with the Naim amp, at least from what I've been told. Heard the earlier Planet with a Naim combo, which was pretty good.