Desktop HiFi - Headphones?

[Paulq]

I recently dusted off my NJC Audio DAC and headphone amp and plan to use them with my iMac using Audirvana+. For the first listen I used both of my existing headphones - Denon AHD-7000 and Shure SRH-1540, both of which I have always enjoyed listening to.

Trouble is, and this is a first, using the above kit I really noticed a drop off in the level of detail that both of them provided. I may be making unfair comparisons as most of my listening these days is done through an Aktiv Linn setup where there is TONS of detail but I really did notice it using the headphones for the first time.

Naturally, I am thinking ' have my listening preferences changed'? I think they have and, if so and if it's greater clarity and detail that I want, then are the headphones I have right now the right ones anymore?

My initial thought is to try some different ones that meet the above criteria and I have read about the following:

HiFiMan HE400i

Grado SR325e

Beyerdynamic T1 (2nd Gen)

Sennheiser HD800

but I'd welcome views on any more that are revealing without being overly bright. My initial view is that open back may provide me with greater soundstage, especially given the 2 I already have are closed back.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dalethorn]

I recently dusted off my NJC Audio DAC and headphone amp and plan to use them with my iMac using Audirvana+. For the first listen I used both of my existing headphones - Denon AHD-7000 and Shure SRH-1540, both of which I have always enjoyed listening to.

Trouble is, and this is a first, using the above kit I really noticed a drop off in the level of detail that both of them provided. I may be making unfair comparisons as most of my listening these days is done through an Aktiv Linn setup where there is TONS of detail but I really did notice it using the headphones for the first time.

Naturally, I am thinking ' have my listening preferences changed'? I think they have and, if so and if it's greater clarity and detail that I want, then are the headphones I have right now the right ones anymore?

My initial thought is to try some different ones that meet the above criteria and I have read about the following:

HiFiMan HE400i

Grado SR325e

Beyerdynamic T1 (2nd Gen)

Sennheiser HD800

but I'd welcome views on any more that are revealing without being overly bright. My initial view is that open back may provide me with greater soundstage, especially given the 2 I already have are closed back.

Thanks in advance.

I had to give up on my 1540 with certain amps because of lack of detail. The Grado, the T1, and the HD800 are kind-of going the opposite way, and may indeed be too bright. The funny thing is, try as hard as I can to think of headphones that hit the sweet spot between a really shy lower treble/presence (SRH1540, Focal Elear, Blue Ella, AQ NightHawk etc.) and the brighter ones like the above three, I don't find any good choices. The Audeze LCD2 that I had was pretty neutral, but dropped off on both ends. I was thinking seriously about the Abyss Diana, but so far the critics aren't convinced.

 

[Paulq]

Seems like we have the same issue Dale - I am struggling. The HE400i seems to get good reviews - any views?

 

[Leif]

I'm sure you've seen this site:

https://www.innerfidelity.com/

I found the reviews very helpful and matched my own experiences. Obviously there's many headphones they've not tried. Maybe you can demo a few from your local shop at home?

 

[Paulq]

I don't have the opportunity to demo any unfortunately so am relying on the ability to return if not suitable.

I hesitated between something like the DT880 but the reviews were mixed between excellent and too bright.

After reading pretty universal positive reviews I've plumped for a pair of HE400i.

They will be my first set of Planar headphones and I am looking forward to hearing what all the fuss is about.

 

[richie60]

Let us know what they're like. I was going to chip in and suggest the Beyer DT1990 as that is getting good reviews.

 

[Paulq]

They arrived today and I knew pretty quickly they were not for me. I had read about their detail and clarity when, frankly, I heard none of those. I A/B'd them with the Shures and found the Shures to present far more detail than the HE-400i's. The Shures are not a detailed headphone so draw your own conclusions.

The only caveat I can offer is that my regular desktop DAC is in for repair at the moment. However, I was using a Dragonfly Black instead and that's more than capable of delivering great results so there wasn't much to criticise kit wise.

I have returned them and instead ordered the Beyerdynamic DT880 (600 Ohm) which will arrive tomorrow. I am a fan of Beyer headphones anyway so, even if they are not perfect or the solution I am looking for, I know I will like them. I am also pondering whether to exchange my NJC DAC/Amp for the Oppo HA-1 but that's gonna take some thinking through as the NJC stuff is absolute quality.

I am struggling though and still agree with Dale - there's little out there that fills the void between those in the 'veiled/dark/warm' camp and others in the 'harsh/bright/edgy' group.

Edit: I find the opposite is true for IEM's where there is a plethora of choice. Listening through the Dragonfly with Flare Audio R2S I get staggering detail, bass and pretty much everything. Pity the full sized ones seem more challenging in this regard.

 

[Leif]

Are you sure they didn't need burning in? My new speakers bought a few weeks ago sounded awful at first but after 50+ hours they now sound good. That said, I don't think I noticed any burn in on my Audeze Sine headphones. It was a demo pair, said to be one week old and tried by one person.

 

[dalethorn]

They arrived today and I knew pretty quickly they were not for me. I had read about their detail and clarity when, frankly, I heard none of those. I A/B'd them with the Shures and found the Shures to present far more detail than the HE-400i's. The Shures are not a detailed headphone so draw your own conclusions.

The only caveat I can offer is that my regular desktop DAC is in for repair at the moment. However, I was using a Dragonfly Black instead and that's more than capable of delivering great results so there wasn't much to criticise kit wise.

I have returned them and instead ordered the Beyerdynamic DT880 (600 Ohm) which will arrive tomorrow. I am a fan of Beyer headphones anyway so, even if they are not perfect or the solution I am looking for, I know I will like them. I am also pondering whether to exchange my NJC DAC/Amp for the Oppo HA-1 but that's gonna take some thinking through as the NJC stuff is absolute quality.

I am struggling though and still agree with Dale - there's little out there that fills the void between those in the 'veiled/dark/warm' camp and others in the 'harsh/bright/edgy' group.

Edit: I find the opposite is true for IEM's where there is a plethora of choice. Listening through the Dragonfly with Flare Audio R2S I get staggering detail, bass and pretty much everything. Pity the full sized ones seem more challenging in this regard.

I've only heard one planar that had reasonably good detail, and that was the MrSpeakers Mad Dog, which in actuality is a modded Fostex T50rp I believe. I've tried equalization with the LCD2/Fazor and the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, but wasn't satisfied. I use some EQ with the Blue Ella planar, which does help, but it's still not as good as some of the better dynamics.

 

[Leif]

I chose my Audeze Sine because it had more detail and a better tonal balance than the other headphones I tried, mainly the B&W P series. The OPP PM-3 seemed good too. That said, I prefer my Sennheiser HD600 for home use.

 

[Paulq]

Are you sure they didn't need burning in? My new speakers bought a few weeks ago sounded awful at first but after 50+ hours they now sound good. That said, I don't think I noticed any burn in on my Audeze Sine headphones. It was a demo pair, said to be one week old and tried by one person.

You're really asking the wrong guy as I simply don't believe in this notion of burn in

. None of my equipment sounds any different to me from the day I bought it.

I know some people do though and I respect their view and am glad you like yours. Thanks for trying to help.

 

[Paulq]

Slightly different question for you Dale regarding the Dragonfly. I have the black and use it with iMac (occasionally) but mainly with MacBook Pro. In the Audio Midi settings would you set the sample rate to 44k or 96k? The reason I ask is that I was listening to Tidal last night after setting it to 96k and it was Magenta the whole time.

Most of Tidal's streams are CD quality so I wouldn't have expected it to be that colour unless it's upsampling the streams? Am I better to leave it at 44 and let it decide?

Do you find much difference between black and red? The black is an amazing piece of kit.

 

[Leif]

Are you sure they didn't need burning in? My new speakers bought a few weeks ago sounded awful at first but after 50+ hours they now sound good. That said, I don't think I noticed any burn in on my Audeze Sine headphones. It was a demo pair, said to be one week old and tried by one person.

You're really asking the wrong guy as I simply don't believe in this notion of burn in . None of my equipment sounds any different to me from the day I bought it.

I know some people do though and I respect their view and am glad you like yours. Thanks for trying to help.

Before buying new PMC twenty.21 speakers, I Googled and came to the conclusion that speaker burn in was a myth, and that it is in fact the listener becoming acclimatised to the speakers, and the brain adapting to the sound. I accepted the explanation as I know how plastic the brain is, and how much BS and misinformation exists in the hifi world e.g. speaker cables.

Anyway I recently listened to a pair of used PMC 20.21 speakers driven by the same model of amp as I have, and they sounded really lovely. When I wired in some new ones back home, they sounded awful, especially the bass which was muddy, and voices were odd. Over the course of a week, the sound became more natural, and the bass opened up. It was a significant change and not subtle. PMC in their brochure state that 50 hours burn in is required, and I'd agree with that. So yes, I am now in the speaker burn in camp, at least for the PMC speakers I own. As I said earlier, I did not notice any such effect with my Audeze Sine headphones.

It's odd because this is so easy to settle. Just get some used speakers alongside some new ones, and do a blind test.

 

[Paulq]

I think the assertion of burn in with speakers holds more weight, given that they contain moving parts. Headphones may also have them - I actually don't know. It's probably reasonable to assume that there's an element of 'settlement' going on. Others far better qualified than I will be able to give a summary with greater scientific authority. Personally, I have never encountered it but am prepared to accept that others may have.

The situation with cables, even to my simple mind, is pure nonsense IMO. I recall reading what is generally regarded as an authoritative article some years ago whereby pretty much every argument supporting cable 'burn in' was dispelled. I can no longer find it but it made perfect sense to me.

I am much more in the corner that supports 'brain in'. Cable burn in, nope. Not having that.

Anyway, back to the Headphones and, secondarily, DACs......

 

[dalethorn]

Slightly different question for you Dale regarding the Dragonfly. I have the black and use it with iMac (occasionally) but mainly with MacBook Pro. In the Audio Midi settings would you set the sample rate to 44k or 96k? The reason I ask is that I was listening to Tidal last night after setting it to 96k and it was Magenta the whole time.

Most of Tidal's streams are CD quality so I wouldn't have expected it to be that colour unless it's upsampling the streams? Am I better to leave it at 44 and let it decide?

Do you find much difference between black and red? The black is an amazing piece of kit.

The Red is smoother than the Black, but significantly less efficient. I believe it's worth the money - well worth it, but I'd hang onto both. I'm still trying to find out if anyone has experimented with the MQA features in the new firmware. The data rate settings are tricky - I don't think I've ever seen those work properly. On my Mac, playing FLAC files locally, the light always shows the 96k color, even with 44k CD rips. Once upon a time I went through the documents that AQ supplied, and then some other Web docs, and read as much as I could, then this is still what I get. But the main thing is, if possible the settings should allow for the maximum 96k data rate, but that might not apply for streaming - don't know.

 

[dalethorn]

I think the assertion of burn in with speakers holds more weight, given that they contain moving parts. Headphones may also have them - I actually don't know. It's probably reasonable to assume that there's an element of 'settlement' going on. Others far better qualified than I will be able to give a summary with greater scientific authority. Personally, I have never encountered it but am prepared to accept that others may have.

The situation with cables, even to my simple mind, is pure nonsense IMO. I recall reading what is generally regarded as an authoritative article some years ago whereby pretty much every argument supporting cable 'burn in' was dispelled. I can no longer find it but it made perfect sense to me.

I am much more in the corner that supports 'brain in'. Cable burn in, nope. Not having that.

Anyway, back to the Headphones and, secondarily, DACs......

I've seen Innerfidelity's test runs with headphone burn-in, which were small (1-2 db) changes, but they used a premium headphone that likely ran a few hours on the QA bench at the manufacturer. Most manufacturers of premium products have output areas where the items run unattended for awhile to make sure they will keep running when the customer gets them.

I've heard dramatic differences with speaker cables, mostly in bass damping, but also in treble changes if the cables have excessive capacitance. Interconnect cables shouldn't make a significant difference, if they're kept short, if the contacts are kept clean and maintained, and if the cables don't have weird electrical properties. Headphone cables usually are pretty short, so rarely an issue. But the classic Sennheiser cables (HD580/600/650 etc.) always corrode at the connectors, and will fail eventually. The good news is, every one that I've had restored perfectly when I pulled the plugs, wiped them off, made sure the sockets were clean, and plugged them back in.

 

[Leif]

I've heard dramatic differences with speaker cables, mostly in bass damping, but also in treble changes if the cables have excessive capacitance. Interconnect cables shouldn't make a significant difference, if they're kept short, if the contacts are kept clean and maintained, and if the cables don't have weird electrical properties. Headphone cables usually are pretty short, so rarely an issue. But the classic Sennheiser cables (HD580/600/650 etc.) always corrode at the connectors, and will fail eventually. The good news is, every one that I've had restored perfectly when I pulled the plugs, wiped them off, made sure the sockets were clean, and plugged them back in.

I took my iPhone, Chord Mojo and a basic 3.5mm to twin phono adapter in to play through the amp when choosing speakers. The sales chap dismissed my very cheap cable as rubbish, and pulled out a nice one to use. Back home I bought a better cable (albeit still modestly priced), and compared the two. Nope. Zero difference.

My Sennheiser HD600 cable failed after 10+ years. I assume you mean that you simply cleaned the little two pin plugs that fit into the ear pieces? I must try that and see if I spent £15 for nothing. I assumed that the cable had failed due to a break or somesuch, cleaning would have made sense. Doh.

Apologies for going off topic.

 

[dalethorn]

My Sennheiser HD600 cable failed after 10+ years. I assume you mean that you simply cleaned the little two pin plugs that fit into the ear pieces? I must try that and see if I spent £15 for nothing. I assumed that the cable had failed due to a break or somesuch, cleaning would have made sense.

Yep, just wipe the little plugs, but also if you can get anything like the bristles of a clean dry toothbrush into the sockets the little plugs go into, it might improve the connections to make sure those are clean. At the least, get a strong blower and blow out anything that's loose.