Denon flagship AVC-X8500H

[leenorm1]

Denons new flagship AVR is imminent and what a powerhouse it is! 13 channels of power giving up to 7.2.6 Dolby Atmos or DTS:X as well as the Asahi Kasei 4490 DAC on all channels.... it should sound true to a flagship Denon. Hopefully getting ours soon.

 

[bigboss]

I don't think it'll attract people by describing the capability of driving 7.2.6 Atmos. More importantly, it's now possible to run both Atmos and Auro 3D configurations without compromising speaker positions.

 

[leenorm1]

Good point, just didn’t want to bleat on about its features like I was reading a product flier. Should also give the possibility of multiple bi wiring. The earc should be good too, when TV manufacturers start to use it.

 

[abacus]

13 channels in one box, I wonder what they have sacrificed to get them all in, (Power supply is the usual item) definitely needs to be heard in a system before purchase. (Apart from one (Anthem 1120 with lower power Atmos channels) I have yet to hear any one box solution that doesn’t fall flat on its face once you go above 9 channels)

Bill

 

[bigboss]

13 channels in one box, I wonder what they have sacrificed to get them all in, (Power supply is the usual item) definitely needs to be heard in a system before purchase. (Apart from one (Anthem 1120 with lower power Atmos channels) I have yet to hear any one box solution that doesn’t fall flat on its face once you go above 9 channels)

Bill

A demo of Marantz SR8012 is due for you then!

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

My SR7010 does quite nicely in my media room - all be it at "sensible" listening levels and with a stereo power amp for channels 10 and 11.

And see my previous thread on watts vs decibels. You increase the dBs by 10 ( and thus double the "loudness") you need 10 times the power not twice. An extra 20 or 30 watts per channel won't do jack, erm, shot!

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Marantz SR-7010 rated power consumption is 710 watts (I assume RMS).

Assuming I can get 60 watts per channel RMS with all nine channels driven. 60 x 9 = 630 watts. So that's pushing the limits of credibility, assuming 90% of the power in gets converted into power out.

So assuming with all 9 internally amplified channels going full tilt, and with an extra two channels also going full tilt, and assuming an average 10 foot separation between speakers and ears, I get a calculated 106.5 decibels. Which is somewhere between a newspaper printing press and an airliner passing overhead at 1000 feet (i.e. effing loud).

At 50 watts per channel I still get 105.7 dB and at 40 watts 104.7 dB. 80 watts per channel gives an imperceptably small increase to 107.8 decibels. So, as I said, 30 watts per channel doesn't do much.

If I used, say, a pair of Emotiva XPA-Gen 3 7-channel modular power amps, 5 or 6 channels per box, I only get to 111.7 decibels (a 5.2 dB increase) with the rated 200 watts per channel all channels driven power output. That's quite a bit louder, granted, but not TWICE as loud.

To get to 116.5 decibels, or sounding "twice as loud" (which would be deafening, quite literally deafening) I would need 600 watts per channel.

This done using the calculator at:

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

And according to the scientists:

​Exposure to sounds above 85 dB causes short term hearing losses called "temporary threshhold shifts". If these occur, your ears become less sensitive and sounds seem quieter than normal {hence you can't hear your mates on the way home from an Iron Maiden concert]. After some time, normal hhearing returns.

Repeated exposure to sounds that cause temporary threshhold shifts result in permanent damage to the ear in the form of a permanent threshhold shift. The ear loses sensitivity in the 3 kHz to 6 kHz range resulting in a "notch" in th ehearing range. Time of exposure is important, the louder the sound, the less exposure time before permanent damage sets in.

According to OSHA [the US version of the UK's HSE] are (A-rated, most HT measurements are C-rated, but you get the idea):

90 dB 8 hours

92 dB 6 hours

95 dB 4 hours

97 dB 3 hours

100 dB 2 hours

102 dB 1.5 hours

105 dB 1 hour

110 dB 30 minutes

115 dB less than 15 minutes

Now. I do accept that not all parts of a movie are really loud, but even so, think carefully before going for a "one point twenty one gigawatts" flux capacitor based amp!

 

[leenorm1]

Thoroughly agreed, too many people look at power claims when purchasing a receiver. A film is recorded at 75db with 20db headroom meaning a max of 95db. LFE is generally 10db above this. So in an average or even a large room you do not need masses of power. That is unless you are running floorstanders at full range. The bass is the power hungry part, if you cross over all speakers at 80hz and let your subwoofer do the hard work then the AVR isn’t being laboured, that’s why the LFE channel was conceived after all.

Anyway, back to the AVC-X8500. Its the sound that matters and with the latest Denon AVRs sounding spot on, especially with dialogue, I think we are in for a treat.

 

[abacus]

You forgot to take into account the efficiency and load properties of the speaker, which makes the biggest difference to the amount of volume that the receiver can produce. (The differences can be up to 6db, plus if an 8 ohm speaker drops down to 4 ohms (Which is quite typical in high end loudspeakers) in parts of the frequency range, the amp is theoretically required to produce twice the amount of power to drive it correctly, (This is where a beefy power supply comes in) which is where most multi-channel receivers fall down once you start going over 9 channels on board)

Bill

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

My sums were done using the calculator in the linked above. I don't think the author intended it to be spot on. How could he when there are so many variables out with his control?

I used 88 dB/W/m as that's the quoted sensitivity of my speakers. Likewise 8 ohms. You're sure to get different results with different inputs.

You can run your own numbers including dropping the impedance to 4 ohms if you like.

Best to regard the sums as comparative not definitive, however, but I think my point is made.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Just to add, I'd give (a shaving off of) my right nut for a Marantz 13 channel processor and a brace of seven channel Emotiva power amps whatever the numbers say

I'll save the rest of my right nut for a 140 inch 8K wallpaper OLED TV to go with them...