DAC or Music Streamer with old AVR?

[Bromiley]

I've been re-thinking about what to buy next. I've bought the B&W 685 S2 speakers and am currently using a Denon AVR (1610) with them in direct mode for stereo playback from my bluray player. I have to prioritise my next purchases due to budget.

My orignal thought was to buy a stereo amp to replace the Denon AVR next, but now I'm uncertain. Someone once told me that the 'source' is more important than the other componants. Since most of my music is based on my MacBook Pro, I'm thinking that a DAC or a Music Streamer would be a better buy than a new amp to begin with. I would be looking at connecting the Mac to a DAC or Music Streamer via USB-B.

So far I've looked at the following to conect to the Denon AVR:

Arcam irDAC

Pioneer N-50A

I'd appreciate any comments about the choice of DACs / Music Streamers you think are good PLUS whether you think using an old Denon AVR-1610 would have a negative effect on sould quality when using a DAC or Music Streamer. My budget is about 450 GBP.

 

[davedotco]

I assume you are connecting your Macbook digitally to your Denon so I am not sure what you hope to achieve by adding an outboard Dac. Sure I would expect something of the quality or the irDac to be better than the Dac in the Denon, particularly using USB, but on the other hand, I would expect those differences to be quite modest considering the not inconsiderable cost.

Similarly by adding a separate streamer you are changing the way your system operates functionally rather than making a substantial improvement in sound quality, again at quite high cost.

When it is this difficult to decide what to do, it suggests that you have a nicely balanced setup and to make any real changes may well require a substantial rethink and a pretty large investment.

For example, thinking several steps ahead you might want to upgrade the Dac but go a bit further than the irDac and get a Dac/pre-amp like the M-dac or similar or even a fully functional streamer/Dac/pre-amp like the new Cambridge CXN, an updated all singing, all dancing Stream Magic.

Use any of these as the hub of your system, the AVR can still act as a power amplifier for the time being and get a better more potent amplifier at a later date, you will not believe how good your 685s will sound with such amplification.

If you are not averse to a bit of bargain hunting, the current version of the Stream Magic is available at £499, which is great value for money, keep your eyes open for a beefy power amp bargain down the line.

 

[Leeps]

First of all, it's worth bearing in mind the different qualities of your analogue and digital inputs on your AV receiver. I found on mine that the internal DAC is pretty good, but the quality of my analogue inputs aren't that great. So I could spend a vast amount of money on an external DAC, the quality of which is completely negated by using analogue RCA interconnects into my AVR. So I know for my own AVR, it's generally better using its coaxial or optical inputs. You may find that a higher quality DAC similarly actually has a detrimental effect on sound quality.

Also, if you're using your Mac as a source (and therefore have to have it switched on to play music), why add a streamer when you Mac already plays the music? Streamers only make sense to me if you want to switch off your computer and have all your music on a NAS.

Perhaps a critical question might be, do you ever intend to go multi-channel?

If not, how about considering the Cambridge Audio Azur 651A stereo amplifier which now comes with its own USB input? It's a decent amp: just plug your Mac straight in. Check to see if your Bluray has analogue RCA outputs though. If it doesn't then this may not be the ideal solution for you.

Alternatives you could audition that have additional digital inputs if you Bluray doesn't have analogue outputs: NAD D3020, Rotel RA-11 (a smidgen over budget). However, please do audition any amps with your speakers. It really is worth the hassle. So many of us on this forum (including me) have learned this the hard way by snapping up 'bargains' without auditioning them, only to lose money later swapping them in on Ebay because I don't like them.

 

[Bromiley]

Thanks davedotco and Leeps. I appreciate your replies.
davedotco, you mentioned about my connecting my Macbook (5 years old now) directly to the Denon (10 years old). Yes, I’ve tested this via optical and was surprised at the result. I imported a CD into the Mac (using Apple Lossless) and played it via optical and then played the same CD on my budget Bluray player. The sound from the Bluray was far better! Perhaps this is because via optical the sound card in the Mac is being used rather than a USB-B connection where a superior DAC would be used. Or, perhaps it’s the age of my Mac sound card. One point you also mentioned really caught my attention. You said (referring to a better amp at a later date) “you will not believe how good your 685s will sound with such amplification”. I’ll come back to this later. Leeps, you mentioned the quality of the analogue and digital inputs on the Denon. Since it’s an AVR, I would assume that the analogue inputs aren’t as good as a stereo amp. And given the poor sound quality via optical from my Mac, perhaps I should rethink my next purchase again. You mentioned the Azur 651A. Yes, there is USB-B input but no optical input. I have my Bluray player connected to my TV via HDMI and then optical from the TV to the Denon. I would still need this type of connection as the Bluray player only has HDMI. I’m now coming to the conclusion that the following options may be better: 1. New amp e.g. Marantz PM7005 which has USB-B and optical connections. This would take care of the Mac connection and also the Bluray player via the TV. I would assume that the USB DAC would give me better sound quality from the Mac. Or 2. New amp e.g. Marantz PM6005 with Marantz CD6005 CD player and forget about playing music from the Mac. Or 3. Marantz PM6005 with an external USB DAC. The USB connection being important so that I can bypass the Mac’s internal sound card. What do you both think? The Marantz amp/CD combination got a very good review from WHAT HI-FI. Surely this combination or the Marantz PM7005 would be far superior to the Denon AVR I’m using now.

 

[Leeps]

Amps with optical AND USB inputs aren't that common in your price range, which is some ways makes the process less confusing for you.

These forums are useful initially thinking through your options, but really the next step is to find a dealer who stocks the amps on your shortlist (and ideally stocks your speakers too, to save you lugging them there) and have a good listen. Take some CD's, take your Mac and take plenty of time before making your decision.

I don't use a computer as a source, but it's just worth checking whether your Mac's settings aren't preventing you from bypassing its own sound card in the comparisons you've made. Others may be more knowledgeable on that score.