Changes at AVI - a move eastwards?

[avole]

2 new shareholders, Dr Tommy Tan and Maria Tselentis, both with TC Capital, a Singaporean bank specialising in "mergers and acquisitions". Dr Tan is the CEO, apparently.

Does this indicate a move to Asia for AVI? They also seem to have reversed their previous direct selling model and are starting to go through dealers, at considerable price increases apparently.

Just thought the handful of AVI fanatics might be interested, since they've been quiet of late.

By the way, you can check the info at the companies house website.

 

[lindsayt]

AVI previously sold through at least 2 dealers - for the same price they sold direct.

Those dealers weren't "Help the AVI" charities.

It's possible that a price increase of 10% to 15% might be warranted in order to make the brand more attractive for other dealers to take on.

My speculation is that the £500 price increases are due to the new owners having had to pay a certain amount of money in order to take over the company, which they are now looking to recoup by increasing prices. Which would be entirely fair and understandable enough from their point of view.

 

[chebby]

Is this a little bit of that "John Lobb of St. James - with their kind permission and a guided tour - and Chinese customers were just starting to appear on their order book.)

Just mulling over a coffee right now. I won't be going near their website anytime soon but I like to hear the updates.

 

[jmjones]

As per title, I was wondering where the speakers are made at the moment? Price rise would suggest they can't make up for dealer requirements and profit targets with efficiency increases on manufacture. LindsayT is probably bang on the money.

 

[Andrewjvt]

But if you order soon or might have expired but you could still get for the original price.

Its still.a good deal. £2000 for top quality monitors with good amp, pre amp and dac all built in.
I stand corrected but Avi were the first company to provide this all in one solution.
Now other companies are following the trend.

 

[chebby]

But if you order soon or might have expired but you could still get for the original price.

Its still.a good deal. £2000 for top quality monitors with good amp, pre amp and dac all built in. I stand corrected but Avi were the first company to provide this all in one solution. Now other companies are following the trend.

They weren't the first by a big margin. Meridian DAC and pre-amp equipped actives were on the market long before AVIs. Bang and Olufsen too.

 

[jmjones]

It would be interesting to get the latest actives from AE, Kef (and others?) up against a set of AVIs. Maybe WHF should consider that for a group test.

I find the concept of a minimalist system very appealing, although speakers in the £2k range face some serious competition, and have the small disadvantage of being hard to update as technology moves on.

The AE1 at half the price, with added pre-amp/DAC would be an interesting concept. A little more future-proof possibly, and I'd be very interested to hear the SQ differences.

 

[shadders]

But if you order soon or might have expired but you could still get for the original price.

Its still.a good deal. £2000 for top quality monitors with good amp, pre amp and dac all built in. I stand corrected but Avi were the first company to provide this all in one solution. Now other companies are following the trend.

Hi,

Not wishing to be contentious - but Ashley James did make the following claims in the following post :

http://www.techradar.com/news/home-cinema/home-theatre-audio/home-cinema-audio/audio/hi-fi-radio/hi-fi-boss-slams-rip-off-industry-162930

Text as follows :

"I'm not going to mention the name of a company which sells an AV processor for several thousand quid. You boys with computers will know perfectly well that if you want Dolby 5.1 you can get a PC card for £7.50 with the same chipset in it," he said.

So a preamp chip and DAC is probably at most £15. So, is it value for money compared with other active speakers ?.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Frank Harvey]

We can all be economical with the truth...

Look at it this way. The average two-channel analogue ampifier costs around £200-500. Most AV receivers have seven channels, so there's at least three times those costs straight away (£700-2000+). Add in ADCs for inputting analogue sources, an HDMI board with 5-10 HDMI inputs, and between 1 and 3 outputs, a room EQ system with associated licences, the numerous licences needed for the myryad of surround codecs nowadays, Bluetooth and AirPlay hardware and licences, music streaming services and associated licences, video streaming, a comprehensive remote control, a comprehensive control app, sometimes IP control, more metalwork for a solid chassis, frame and case, etc etc. Have I missed anything out? Probably. By now we all know that AV receivers around the £2k mark are far more flexible, capable, powerful, and sound better than those under say the £1k price point. That's generalising, but that's what I've found over the years.

To compare a top spec, compete AV receivers to a single PC board is stretching things a little, and just perpetuating hatred towards the hi-fi and AV industry, as he has for many years. He's clever though, and obviously getting out before the market for active speakers hots up, by which point it will be taken over by the companies with the best R&D departments and monitoring/testing facilities. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[avole]

as he still owns a substantial amount of shares.

I'm not sure if the company hasn't missed the boat. Dynaudio and Devialet have always left them for dead technically, as have Meridian, and with Kef, AE and others coming on board, speakers without wifi, airplay or bluetooth are beginning to look a bit sad.

Anyway, it is interesting that all those fanboys have deserted this forum, now that it no longer has a big enough audience and no longer sells enough speakers for them.

 

[shadders]

We can all be economical with the truth...

Look at it this way. The average two-channel analogue ampifier costs around £200-500. Most AV receivers have seven channels, so there's at least three times those costs straight away (£700-2000+). Add in ADCs for inputting analogue sources, an HDMI board with 5-10 HDMI inputs, and between 1 and 3 outputs, a room EQ system with associated licences, the numerous licences needed for the myryad of surround codecs nowadays, Bluetooth and AirPlay hardware and licences, music streaming services and associated licences, video streaming, a comprehensive remote control, a comprehensive control app, sometimes IP control, more metalwork for a solid chassis, frame and case, etc etc. Have I missed anything out? Probably. By now we all know that AV receivers around the £2k mark are far more flexible, capable, powerful, and sound better than those under say the £1k price point. That's generalising, but that's what I've found over the years.

To compare a top spec, compete AV receivers to a single PC board is stretching things a little, and just perpetuating hatred towards the hi-fi and AV industry, as he has for many years. He's clever though, and obviously getting out before the market for active speakers hots up, by which point it will be taken over by the companies with the best R&D departments and monitoring/testing facilities. Just my opinion, of course.

Hi,

Yes - AV Receivers are amazing value for money, with the features available at the low end of the market being quite numerous. Even thouse in the £700+ price are very good value too - as you have referred to - R&D etc. The component cost for many of the features when purchased in the numbers by the big manufacturers, is going to be low - so the value is the number of features. If only they provided a cheap processor - currently you have to pay a lot for basic functions. All i want is the same AV amplifier without the power amplification. If Active speakers do become more popular - then processors may become more prolific.

The post i referenced was old - 2007.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The post i referenced was old - 2007.

Regards,

Shadders.

Doesn't mean his views have changed! I bet they're exactly the same

 

[shadders]

as he still owns a substantial amount of shares.

I'm not sure if the company hasn't missed the boat. Dynaudio and Devialet have always left them for dead technically, as have Meridian, and with Kef, AE and others coming on board, speakers without wifi, airplay or bluetooth are beginning to look a bit sad.

Anyway, it is interesting that all those fanboys have deserted this forum, now that it no longer has a big enough audience and no longer sells enough speakers for them.

Hi,

In their current form - they are expensive - the article i referenced indicates that the complaint is Hifi industry over charging for simple chip sets, but a DAC chip is £10 for one of the best, and £10 for a digital volume control. So AVI are probably doing the same. The extra £500 has nothing to do with the statement that the product was originally under valued and that £2k is still good value.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[luckylion100]

having heard them unlike most here.

But I won't engage with those just wanting silly arguments. Have fun. ;-)

 

[avole]

of the topic, LL. Have a read of the first post again. Whether you've heard them or not is irrelevant, since the speakers aren't the point of the discussion.

 

[Al ears]

of the topic, LL. Have a read of the first post again. Whether you've heard them or not is irrelevant, since the speakers aren't the point of the discussion.

The whole point of your thread was to resurrect the AVI brigade was it not? Otherwise who gives a damn who owns what in hifi companies anyway?

 

[avole]

It was exactly as written. Hang your ears in shame, al

 

[alchemist 1]

We can all be economical with the truth...

Look at it this way. The average two-channel analogue ampifier costs around £200-500. Most AV receivers have seven channels, so there's at least three times those costs straight away (£700-2000+). Add in ADCs for inputting analogue sources, an HDMI board with 5-10 HDMI inputs, and between 1 and 3 outputs, a room EQ system with associated licences, the numerous licences needed for the myryad of surround codecs nowadays, Bluetooth and AirPlay hardware and licences, music streaming services and associated licences, video streaming, a comprehensive remote control, a comprehensive control app, sometimes IP control, more metalwork for a solid chassis, frame and case, etc etc. Have I missed anything out? Probably. By now we all know that AV receivers around the £2k mark are far more flexible, capable, powerful, and sound better than those under say the £1k price point. That's generalising, but that's what I've found over the years.

To compare a top spec, compete AV receivers to a single PC board is stretching things a little, and just perpetuating hatred towards the hi-fi and AV industry, as he has for many years. He's clever though, and obviously getting out before the market for active speakers hots up, by which point it will be taken over by the companies with the best R&D departments and monitoring/testing facilities. Just my opinion, of course.

David just how good are those Ophidians......?

 

[Frank Harvey]

David just how good are those Ophidians......?

As you know, it's all personal, but when I heard them for the first time at Bristol last year, I knew I wanted them to offer customers - there aren't many speakers the size of Monitor Audio Radius (a tad smaller, actually), and any that are aren't good enough for a genuine high quality audio system or are designed more for AV use. Their port system works quite differently to other speakers, and if you put your hand over the grille of the port, there's very little air flow, which enables them to sit closer to room boundaries and affect the speaker's sound far less.

The Minimo and the Mambo are the standout models for me (despite the Mojo being quite a noticeable improvement over the Minimo). The detail they're capable of is quite amazing. Sure there will be similarly priced alternatives that offer a lot more speaker for your money, but very few will work as well as the Ophidians do in average/small rooms. Oddly they actually work quite well in large rooms too...

I'd love to hear an AV system using Minimos all round because they're so small! I bet it'd be quite impressive.

 

[luckylion100]

I think it's interesting that the new owners appear to have real faith in the products, especially the DM10's. It's now competing much more directly in terms of price with the new Kef LS50 Wireless model. I'm sure other makes like AE will continue to follow suit in this approach to hifi speakers. And of course AVI were not alone in this previously.

To many potential buyers the added cost due to distribution, the middle men 'dealers', hopefully an improved and a more personal approach to after sales support etc is largely accademic, £2000 is still £2000 compared to the old £1500. Although the new option to audition in store and proper aftersales support is welcome to many it comes at a serious premium. The price hike may put the DM10's beyond the budget of many.

My only hope is I'd love them to produce an orange veneered variant. I hear it's all the rage in the Asian market of late. ;-)

 

[lindsayt]

luckylion, what do YOU think of the recent AVI £500 price increases? Would you like to expand on your comment that you think it's "madness"?

Would you like to express an opinion on AVI's decision to sell through a lot more dealers than they used to?

Do you have any thoughts on the direction that AVI is being taken by the new owners?

BTW, I couldn't describe myself as a "partner in crime" of Avole. Not when he said the following about me on this forum: "He may be a *****, but he knows what he is talkng about."

I made post #2 in this thread in response to this thread: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/new-active-kid-block?page=1 whereby I wanted to express some thoughts without taking the AE actives thread even further off topic.

I don't understand why you feel that this thread is a "virtual trap", luckylion? It's only a thread on a hi-fi forum on the Internet. Participation in this thread is entirely optional.

 

[avole]

Avole I understood the original post and the reasons behind it perfectly well thank you.

I agree with Al Ears 100%. The reason behind the post was to resurrect arguments of old. Sadly your bait sat there close to a week without a single bite, then your partner in crime resurrected/bumped it by posting. Most AVI Fantactics (first post) or Fanboys (post 10) as you put are mad about a quality product not the company or who owns it. In fact Avole I'd put you up there with the most ardent and obsessive fan as you jump on any thread when the products of this company are mentioned and apparently suffer from withdrawal sympthoms if AVI are not mentioned for a while. There I've bitten but not as a fanactic or fanboy but as someoe that enjoys a quality product regardless of the branding. I'll happily sing the praises of Oppo or Technics but fear being unfaithful to the AVI brotherhood. ;-)

I'd suggest try being a little less obvious next time you intend to place a virtual trap, we're not as stupid as you seem to think.

I'm off to read about hifi related issues not feed your obsession. Enjoy your weekend.

and you need to get over it.

I thought you might be interested in the topic, but apparently you're more interested in regurgitation.

Really sad to see.

 

[jonathanRD]

Previously, the DM10's and their predecessors were considered great VFM and part of the reason for that was the direct selling model. The problem for many potential buyers therefore, was to get to hear them before parting with some cash. Looking back at that selling model, how much was saved not pushing them through a large dealer network? So before this price increase, what would you have expected the speakers to cost if they followed that dealer distribution model?

I have little knowledge of that market in terms of what the markup is from manufacturer to retailer but I would gusess at between 20% to 40%. In this case the markup from the direct selling price is about 33%.

In time, the direct selling option might be just old history, and if they are as good as many say, then the price will remain at that level. if not then we may see the price adjusted.

 

[luckylion100]

Perhaps our messages crossed.

To be honest i haven't given the matter a great deal of thought. My limited views are above re the price hike and new ownership. I own my speakers, I simply enjoy them.

Avole makes a point that the AVI fan club have all but vanished from this forum, can you blame them? Sometimes it appears they're the Whathifi forum whipping boys. I don't post much now, for it's in my nature to reply in what can sometimes seem an aggressive manner. It's certainly not my intention but still comes across like that. So for past indiscretions I apologise to any I may have rubbed up the wrong way, yourself included.

So now I follow this forum from afar, sat in silent solitude because my passion is hifi and music but I still enjoy the read here. Of late I've been less likely to engage, i suspect others may do the same.

Just my take.

 

[luckylion100]

of the topic, LL. Have a read of the first post again. Whether you've heard them or not is irrelevant, since the speakers aren't the point of the discussion.

The whole point of your thread was to resurrect the AVI brigade was it not? Otherwise who gives a damn who owns what in hifi companies anyway?

Avole I understood the original post and the reasons behind it perfectly well thank you.

I agree with Al Ears 100%. The reason behind the post was to resurrect arguments of old. Sadly your bait sat there close to a week without a single bite, then your partner in crime resurrected/bumped it by posting. Most AVI Fanatics (first post) or Fanboys (post 10) as you put are mad about a quality product not the company or who owns it. In fact Avole I'd put you up there with the most ardent and obsessive fan as you jump on any thread when the products of this company are mentioned and apparently suffer from withdrawal sympthoms if AVI are not mentioned for a while. There I've bitten but not as a fanatic or fanboy but as someoe that enjoys a quality product regardless of the branding. I'll happily sing the praises of Oppo or Technics but fear being unfaithful to the AVI brotherhood. ;-)

I'd suggest try being a little less obvious next time you intend to place a virtual trap, we're not as stupid as you seem to think.

I'm off to read about hifi related issues not feed your obsession. Enjoy your weekend.