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CD Player vs DAC
- Thread starter alienmango
- Start date
In my case, I find there's not a whole lot of difference and I've been through a few. Currently using an Arcam Alpha 6 CDP that I picked up for a song recently and it sounds excellent as compared to the onboard DAC in the Onkyo. Happy with either really. How much more would you need to spend on one or the other? Depends on what you think the deficiencies are between one and the other!
Thanks for the reply...I was just wondering because obviously a CD player needs more stuff/moving parts/typically bigger etc whereas a dac is just a chip+power circuitry in a box with a few inputs/outputs.
Stands to reason in my opinion the source is going to be the least important factor, then the amp then the speakers in changing the "tone" / "sound" of a recording.
alienmango said:
You can get a reference DAC for under £100 these days. The actual cost is pennies. What is more important is implementation and quality of the analogue stage.
IMO.
I guess you could compare something like Audiolab's £600 M DAC with their £800 8200CD which adds the CD transport and is double the size. Even here though, where in theory the answer seems to be £200, or a third more, it's complicated by the fact the M DAC has a larger screen and variable output but, i think I am right in saying, a less sophisticated power supply.
in practice I would say there is probably no sensible general answer to your question - the answer will vary from price range to price range, listener to listener, system to system, and so on.
in practice I would say there is probably no sensible general answer to your question - the answer will vary from price range to price range, listener to listener, system to system, and so on.
Good question. I still prefer the sound of Marantz CD-63 KI to my HRT DAC, but I think as fr0g says, in my case I think it's more to do with the quality of the post-DAC analogue-stage in the CDP that marks the difference. HRT is all mass-produced consumer-grade surface-mount components.
Mac Mini > Rega DAC via optical sounds superior to Apolllo R CDP > Rega DAC via optical - dont ask me how it just does, how do I know ? Cos I owned the Apollo R
James7 said:
A more reasonable comparison would be the 8200DQ vs the 8200CDQ, which is about 100 GBP difference. (The later literally is te former with a cd drive added.)
I have the 8200CD.
In itself it works well because the CD is in close proximity to the onboard DAC, which is one of the better performing DACS for the money.
If I was to put the CD coax outlet into an M-DAC, I doubt it would sound as good.
The external power on most DACs puts me off too and there always seems to be a secondary market in costly up-scale power supplies.
If CD players had great DACs that also let other sources use their DAC, I would also go this way rather than get an external DAC.
Companies like Cyrus are upping the game on efficient drive servo / dual internal power supplies i.e. less work to do internally so their DACs work better.
They're costly yes, but realistically do you need to pass the Cyrus CD8SE2 signal into a DAC for digital processing or into an amp for analogue processing?
I'd go straight to the amp.
On the other hand, I also have a Cyrus CD transport that is input to the DAC inbuilt within an 8XPDQX integrated amp. The reason for this is that the DAC is in close proximity to the pre-amp.
The 8200CDQ has a CD / DAC / pre-amp in one box. The 8200DQ goes without the CD, so you can look for a better transport, such as the Cyrus transport.
So effectively there is a gain to be had (IMHO) by having a source with a great DAC (or a pre-amp with a great DAC) rather than having a totally separate DAC in between source and amplification.
In itself it works well because the CD is in close proximity to the onboard DAC, which is one of the better performing DACS for the money.
If I was to put the CD coax outlet into an M-DAC, I doubt it would sound as good.
The external power on most DACs puts me off too and there always seems to be a secondary market in costly up-scale power supplies.
If CD players had great DACs that also let other sources use their DAC, I would also go this way rather than get an external DAC.
Companies like Cyrus are upping the game on efficient drive servo / dual internal power supplies i.e. less work to do internally so their DACs work better.
They're costly yes, but realistically do you need to pass the Cyrus CD8SE2 signal into a DAC for digital processing or into an amp for analogue processing?
I'd go straight to the amp.
On the other hand, I also have a Cyrus CD transport that is input to the DAC inbuilt within an 8XPDQX integrated amp. The reason for this is that the DAC is in close proximity to the pre-amp.
The 8200CDQ has a CD / DAC / pre-amp in one box. The 8200DQ goes without the CD, so you can look for a better transport, such as the Cyrus transport.
So effectively there is a gain to be had (IMHO) by having a source with a great DAC (or a pre-amp with a great DAC) rather than having a totally separate DAC in between source and amplification.
Hey adamrobertshaw
that is some intersting kit you have there. How is the Aurium / HD800 combination, and how does it compare with your loudspeaker based systems?
that is some intersting kit you have there. How is the Aurium / HD800 combination, and how does it compare with your loudspeaker based systems?
stevebrock said:
Wow that is interesting Steve. I've been thinking of picking up an Apollo-R and assumed it would sound better than the computer to DAC running equivalent res files. Maybe i should just save for the amp upgrade. still enjoying the Elicit-R?
I feel the same having both the same cdp and dac as you. I am really starting to lose faith in dacs as stand alone products, you seem to be overpaying. For instance the difference between the dac magic and a music streamer (Denon 720 AE) of the same price sounds nearly identical with the dac magic a bit brighter.MajorFubar said:
James7 said:
The HD800 are, to me, bordering on what the Aurium can adequately drive at 300 ohms. The gain knob is almost maxed out. But my hi fi dealer said a few customers reported that after about 200 hours the HD800 improve sonically (like someone had poured some lovely golden syrup over the drivers is how I recount the wording).
The Aurium isn't as dynamic as other amps like the TEAC HA 501 but where it wins is a lovely sweet / warm listening experience with no hint of fatigue. The HD800 are really transparent. As a combo there is nothing to let the listener down.
I've been tempted to add volume but settled on a 50% volume output. I can hear everything clearly. Nothing added. Nothing missing.
The Aurium can sit quietly between source and speaker amp. It's totally transparent as a pass through.
As for the MA GX50 and Audiolab gear, they have the better alround presentation. The GX50 ribbon tweeter sometimes gets my ears wincing whereas the headphone listening produces no fatigue.
As for my Cyrus gear and PMC twenty 22 ... this easily has the superior soundstage / presentation. I have absolutely no appetite for headphones within this system.
I swapped out my Mac mini as a source for headphone listening in place of my Stream X2 as FLAC is better than Apple m4A. There's no point having average / not your best sources with the HD800 and Aurium.
Lastly I think the Aurium is a bit too relaxed for energetic / dance / electronic music. Or if you're a bass addict. But I don't like bass intusion.
The HD800 are not upset by any type of music.
Interesting. Thanks.
i would have thought the Aurium would cope fine with the 800s but I guess those are some difficult to drive headphones! Just powerful enough though it seems, and I can well imagine that the transparency of the HD800s would be a lovely match to the Pathos. I am thinking that with my two very young children a serious headphones system could well be the way to go, and this combination sounds tempting indeed. 🙂
i would have thought the Aurium would cope fine with the 800s but I guess those are some difficult to drive headphones! Just powerful enough though it seems, and I can well imagine that the transparency of the HD800s would be a lovely match to the Pathos. I am thinking that with my two very young children a serious headphones system could well be the way to go, and this combination sounds tempting indeed. 🙂
shafesk said:
You're right, and I think a lot depends on how good the DAC is in the computer to start with. The HRT wastes the nasty soundcard in my HP laptop, but compared to the DAC in my MacMini, I'd have to sit and do an A-B comparison to spot the difference; if I walked into the room with either playing, I couldn't tell you which it was. And what I suspect is a superior more-refined analogue output stage in the CDP is what causes it to beat the HRT DAC, not the DAC's resolving ability..
How much more would a cd player typically cost than a DAC for the same performance?
It depend how much the brand want from you. :cheers: Some brands have DAC that are costing more that their good cd players, other choose to make the cd player more expensive. But it's more depending on the decision of the marketing & CEO. A lot of brands want to use the momental hype for DAC's, for making easy money. if I compare with my studio gear, the prices of hifi dac's are completely crazy.
It depend how much the brand want from you. :cheers: Some brands have DAC that are costing more that their good cd players, other choose to make the cd player more expensive. But it's more depending on the decision of the marketing & CEO. A lot of brands want to use the momental hype for DAC's, for making easy money. if I compare with my studio gear, the prices of hifi dac's are completely crazy.
James7 said:
I also bought my headphone system to take pity on my neighbour who is a bit deaf but will still feel the vibrations from my speakers.
The HD800 are open backed large driver headphones. If I take them off while music is still playing ... god they're loud.
The Aurium doesn't strain with the HD800 but up the volume and it will run hot. Saves putting the heating on. 😉
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