CD or 24 bit download

crusaderlord

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I heard that Mike Oldfield Crises album was available again. I found a deluxe CD version which looks very neat but also there is a 24 bit download option from Linn Records. Trouble is i just cant quite part with my money just to get PC files even though they will most likely sound better. I guess i am too old fashioned - but for once i was quite tempted to buy the 24 bit this time and have no CD. Maybe i will get 1 track on 24 bit just to test out the differences this time.
 

mitch65

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crusaderlord said:
I heard that Mike Oldfield Crises album was available again. I found a deluxe CD version which looks very neat but also there is a 24 bit download option from Linn Records. Trouble is i just cant quite part with my money just to get PC files even though they will most likely sound better. I guess i am too old fashioned - but for once i was quite tempted to buy the 24 bit this time and have no CD. Maybe i will get 1 track on 24 bit just to test out the differences this time.

I know it's difficult when they put 5 discs in a nice box compared with naff all with a download .........probably why I bought the CDs :)........fwiw the cd sounds very good and one of the better remasters out there.
 

davedotco

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crusaderlord said:
I heard that Mike Oldfield Crises album was available again. I found a deluxe CD version which looks very neat but also there is a 24 bit download option from Linn Records. Trouble is i just cant quite part with my money just to get PC files even though they will most likely sound better. I guess i am too old fashioned - but for once i was quite tempted to buy the 24 bit this time and have no CD. Maybe i will get 1 track on 24 bit just to test out the differences this time.

There is no fundamental technical reason why a 24/96 (or better) download should sound better than an accurately ripped CD.

What may make a difference, and a big difference at that, is the difference in the production values of the two releases.

We can reasonably assume that the sound quality will be pretty much at the top of Linns agenda in producing this release, but do we know the same of the 'Deluxe CD' version.

It is quite possible that in this context, 'Deluxe CD' may mean extra tracks, other extras of some sort and deluxe packaging, the sound quality of the CD may not be the issue, there are many examples of 're-issues', 're-mastered' or otherwise 'Deluxe' CDs where the sound quality is less good than the regular original disc.

Edit. Sorry Mitch, just seen your post. Maybe the well discs are well produced. You don't now until you try them.
 

datay

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I have bought several releases (electronica/techno) in the past year that turned out to be 24/44.1 or 96 once I'd downloaded them (sometimes they were advertised as such sometimes not, a couple were albums, a couple EPs). Probably the only remotely well-known of these was Autechre's Exai on Warp (in fact, a purchase of the CD included 24/44.1 files in the price). All these recordings cost the same as they would in 16/44 and the larger files were unadvertised, unheralded. A very pleasant surprise. Yet Linn (and others) are asking 18 quid for 24/96 ("Studio Master", which is in fact not necessarily an accurate description) compared to £10 for the CD / 16/44 version. Sorry, but it 's hard to deny that's a bit of a rip-off. If the labels I bought the 24-bit releases from can charge the same as normal, why can't Linn? We're talking small, dance/electronic labels here, not majors, e.g. two releases were bought via Bandcamp. I think it rather throws the companies charging a premium for 24-bit into a dim light.
 

crusaderlord

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I didnt notice the price difference at first. It is a bit crazy that the 24 bit downloads are more than a 2 CD deluxe set with booklet etc - why would it cost so much to handle the files ? I have decided to stick with the CD option again - i think longer term satisfaction of owning it will win out in the end. Hard to see how download files will really become everyones first choice option if its actually cheaper to buy the CD. Anyway with a recommendation of a decent remaster its one i will get since i lost my vinyl copy a long while ago now.
 

GeoffreyW

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The only way you'll be sure is to try a download, either Studio Master or CD quality, in whichever format you're going to use, and compare it against your own CD. It must be worth the cost of just one track, just to see?

I've downloaded some Studio Master Flac files to my laptop, saved them to a memory stick, and play back through my Uniti, and they do sound a bit more vibrant than my CDs, but CDs are easier to navigate. I've certainly heard differences when listening to samples, on phones, from my laptop, via my Fiio E7, but haven't listened to downloaded files that way, I have to admit. Something to do later, then.
 

SiUK

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Downloaded 24/96 and 24/192 tracks from various comparison sites (they also offered 16/44.1 downloads for comparisons) and there is a clear difference usually, but not always. But I can't see that the prices being charged for these high resolution downloads are at all warranted. I am of the opinion that it is pretty much a big rip off but if your pockets are deep enough and you don't mind paying twice the price for a download carry on.... I can't bring myself to do it. I think if the source is good then it doesn't much matter, And I wonder whether a lot of what is being passed off has hr music actually is. I shalln't name any particular site, but their sampler album is a mixed bag and I'm not at all convinced...and definitely not at the prices they were charging.
 
T

the record spot

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The Linn service offers a different mastering. Unless you compare the same mastering, you're pretty much comparing apples with oranges.

Incidentally, the Virgin VIP release from the early 90s was very good.
 

ifor

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the record spot said:
Incidentally, the Virgin VIP release from the early 90s was very good.
That's the one I have, as well as the original vinyl, so I think I can pass on all the new options.
smiley-smile.gif
 

davedotco

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the record spot said:
The Linn service offers a different mastering. Unless you compare the same mastering, you're pretty much comparing apples with oranges.

Incidentally, the Virgin VIP release from the early 90s was very good.

This is, pretty much, the issue in a nutshell.

In general terms the record industry does not give a flying fig for the sound quality of it's output, the loudness wars are merely the latest incarnation of this fact.

This does allow for some specialist companies, Linn for example, to put out product with superior SQ but for them to be able to do so the SQ has to be there on the original recordings, the record industry simply can not be bothered to put it on the standard CD.

In fact the industry just loves to repackage the music you already own and sell it to you again as 'Special' or 'Delux' or 'Remastered' versions often with no better SQ, just better packaging and a few 'bonus' tracks that were not good enough for the original release.

There is a bonus for them too, they can, once again, sell you the same music this time on 'Audiophile' quality formats such as DVD, SACD and now Blu-ray. For them it is a win, win.
 
T

the record spot

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I probably should be clearer; Linn's hi-res mastering differs from the standard WAV or mp3 downloads it offers. This is by Linn's own admission (there's a thread on this forum that Steve_1979 did a year or so back).

The Deluxe edition may have been done by someone else, you'd need to check then compare if they're the same guy's work. Hence apples and oranges. :)
 

davedotco

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the record spot said:
I probably should be clearer; Linn's hi-res mastering differs from the standard WAV or mp3 downloads it offers. This is by Linn's own admission (there's a thread on this forum that Steve_1979 did a year or so back).

The Deluxe edition may have been done by someone else, you'd need to check then compare if they're the same guy's work. Hence apples and oranges. :)

Indeed it does, but the original source material, the multitrack recording is the same. It depends what Linn have access to, most probably a good copy of the stereo mix that they then 'master' to their own standards.

This is straightforward enough but the point I am making is simply that, if the record company had employed the same production values in the first place there would be no need to do it again.

Linn would possibly not agree but the big difference is not the precise method by which the recording is mastered, but the care and attention with which it is done.

I have a story about how George Peckham set up his cutting room at Abbey road back in the seventies but I guess that might be considered a bit of a 'porkie' too.
 

Electro

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davedotco said:
I have a story about how George Peckham set up his cutting room at Abbey road back in the seventies but I guess that might be considered a bit of a 'porkie' too.

Please tell the story :) , I find your personal experiences very interesting and a good source of knowledge .
 

Neuphonix

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Electro said:
davedotco said:
I have a story about how George Peckham set up his cutting room at Abbey road back in the seventies but I guess that might be considered a bit of a 'porkie' too.

Please tell the story :) , I find your personal experiences very interesting and a good source of knowledge .

Indeed, please tell. :)
 

davedotco

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Maybe I've 'over egged' this one a little, but it was pretty interesting at the time.

Back in the mid 70s I was the UK "applications engineer" for a major US speaker manufacturer. We were in the process if selling EMI some new monitors for their 'rock' studios and I arranged for some of the technical people from the US to get a tour of Abbey Road.

The delegation from the US was pretty heavyweight so Ken Townsend, then Director of Abbey Road gave us the grand tour. It was interesting for various reasons, one being that Wings were in Studio 3 recording, among other things, Mull of Kintyre.

They were not there at that time in the morning, so we were able to wander around looking at the miking and general setup, all very interesting.

Most interesting though was the vinyl mastering and cutting 'suite'. Not much more than a back office in those days but apparently George Peckam was reluctant to move as he liked the sound of the largely untreated room. Our guys were pleased to see a pair of their 4310 monitors along with the ubiquitous Tannoys.

Mos of the interest though centered around the cutting lathe, (a Scully If i recall correctly) and the various mods that had been done to it. Of particular interest was just how precisely the groove width could be varied, enabling George to cut deeper than average bass and higher levels than was the norm at this time.

Legend had it that George, working at night mostly to benifit from reduced traffic noise, would set the groove width 'by ear', ie listening to the preview signal and adjusting the lathe by hand, in real time. This was considered rather more effective than relying on the automated system that was fitted to the lathe, bear in mind that this was pre computer and the automated system was pretty crude.

Still, I expect a lot has changed since those days, though "Porkies Prime Cuts' remain legendary to this day.
 

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