Cartridge "running in "

[trebor1594]

OK so ive googled this and there are conflicting reports . Just bought a Ortofon Quintet REd and an IFi Zen phono amp . Ive got it set to 60db and 100ohm . Cartridge sounds a bit muddy and bass is ill defined . The mids and trebles are too sharp .

Im using the remaster of Pink Floyds Animals which is an album ive listened to many times on Cd and streamed in CD quality.

Ive got the setup as spot on as i can on my Project Classic turntable .

Any ideas or do i just need to be patient ?

 

[gasolin]

what phono is it ?

https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-phono/ ?

Amp,turntable,speakers, cable ?

 

[trebor1594]

Sorry yeah i thought i said -its an Ortofon Quintet Red Moving Coil. AMP Rotel Rb 1580 mk2 Pre Amp Rotel 1590mk 2 TT Project Classic Mk 1 Speakers Dali oberon 5 Audioquest XLR cables . Pre Amp phono IFI Zen 3 .

 

[gasolin]

WTF You only have Dali Oberon 5

They are without any doubt the weakest link

https://www.avforums.com/threads/dali-oberon-5s-sounding-muffled-and-lacking-treble-detail.2351968/

Mids harsh with Oberon 5s?

Hi there I recently bought some new kit. I have Dali Oberon 5 speakers & an Arcam A5 amp. I'm finding the (what I would call...) high mids quite harsh. So for example a crash cymbal sort of range. Can anyone offer any advice? Could it be that the kit just needs to run in? I'm finding the...

forums.whathifi.com

#25
I had dali Oberon 5 awhile back and wasn't a fan as they too sounded a tad harsh with my Arcam amp.
I changed them by taking my amp with me to richer sounds and demoing my way to the QA 3050i in which the difference to me a much better pairing.

 

[Fandango Andy]

OK so ive googled this and there are conflicting reports . Just bought a Ortofon Quintet REd and an IFi Zen phono amp . Ive got it set to 60db and 100ohm . Cartridge sounds a bit muddy and bass is ill defined . The mids and trebles are too sharp .

Im using the remaster of Pink Floyds Animals which is an album ive listened to many times on Cd and streamed in CD quality.

Ive got the setup as spot on as i can on my Project Classic turntable .

Any ideas or do i just need to be patient ?

Is this an existing turntable on which you have upgraded the cartridge? If so how did if sound before?

Or, have you recently purchased it new without a cartridge and tis is the first time you have used it? if so are you 100% sure the setup is perfect. Do you have the appropriate counterweight for the cart? And in this instance, have you listened to this actual record before, or is that new too. Modern remasters and pressings aren't always the best version. They can sacrifice dynamic range in favour of volume.

 

[gasolin]

Some Project The Classic Evo comes standard with a Ortofon Quintet Red so it should be a fine match

On there website it's the silver cartridge but many evo's form store comes with a Ortofon Quintet Red

Henley Audio | The Classic EVO Turntables | Welcome to Henley Audio

The Classic Evo utilises a simple and elegant “frame” design, which bears a notable resemblance to some of the most famous turntables of the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s. To learn more about this product, head to our website today! Henley Audio - Quality Hi-Fi Distribution.

www.henleyaudio.co.uk

Pro-Ject The Classic Evo (Walnut)

Shop for Project The Classic Evo Walnut Turntable with Richer Sounds for a 6 Year Guarantee, expert advice and Lowest Prices Guaranteed

www.richersounds.com

 

[Fandango Andy]

Some Project The Classic Evo comes standard with a Ortofon Quintet Red so it should fine match

On there website it's the silver cartridge but many evo's form store comes with a Ortofon Quintet Red

Henley Audio | The Classic EVO Turntables | Welcome to Henley Audio

The Classic Evo utilises a simple and elegant “frame” design, which bears a notable resemblance to some of the most famous turntables of the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s. To learn more about this product, head to our website today! Henley Audio - Quality Hi-Fi Distribution.

www.henleyaudio.co.uk

Pro-Ject The Classic Evo (Walnut)

Shop for Project The Classic Evo Walnut Turntable with Richer Sounds for a 6 Year Guarantee, expert advice and Lowest Prices Guaranteed

www.richersounds.com

I understand it comes with an option of either a 2M Silver or without a cartridge. I the case of the latter some stores may put one of their (or customers) choosing.

It isn't clear if the OP has upgraded or this is a new purchase that has come with (or he has added) the Quintet Red. I'm sure they will come back with more info soon.

 

[gasolin]

I have a ifi phonostage myself and new cables that are not burned in yet

A little brighter than neutral but i don't know a Project Classic Mk 1 with a Ortofon Quintet RED and an IFi Zen phono 3 sound like

It could sound more bright, analytic + combined with cheap speakers realtive to the rest of the system, not be a perfect match

100ohm load might not be perfect

MC Quintet Red

Enter the Exclusive world of Ortofon’s famous moving coil sound.The Quintet Red is a perfect introduction to the world of Ortofon moving coils.It features an Elliptical diamond which is cut and polished to Ortofon’s standards.This entry-level MC cartridge has very high price-to-performance ratio...

ortofon.com

 

[Al ears]

I have a ifi phonostage myself and new cables that are not burned in yet

A little brighter than neutral but i don't know a Project Classic Mk 1 with a Ortofon Quintet RED and an IFi Zen phono 3 sound like

It could sound more bright, analytic + combined with cheap speakers realtive to the rest of the system, not be a perfect match

100ohm load might not be perfect

MC Quintet Red

Enter the Exclusive world of Ortofon’s famous moving coil sound.The Quintet Red is a perfect introduction to the world of Ortofon moving coils.It features an Elliptical diamond which is cut and polished to Ortofon’s standards.This entry-level MC cartridge has very high price-to-performance ratio...

ortofon.com

View attachment 8099

Unfortunately yes, like all Ortofons, Quintet Red is the cheapest in the line and not necessarily any good, its a cheap moving coil.
I would suggest binning it in favour of a decent moving magnet and letting the Rotel preamp do its bit.

 

[Gray]

.....and new cables that are not burned in yet

Stop it! 😆

 

[skinnypuppy71]

In my limited experience, a new cartridge should sound very good straight from the box and gradually refine its sound over the first 10-20 hours of use....I just fitted a new Nagaoka mp-500 and it sounded excellent straight away and it's only improving.......only about 6 hours in.

 

[DougK1]

In my limited experience, a new cartridge should sound very good straight from the box and gradually refine its sound over the first 10-20 hours of use....I just fitted a new Nagaoka mp-500 and it sounded excellent straight away and it's only improving.......only about 6 hours in.

That is a lovely cartridge

 

[nopiano]

Is this an existing turntable on which you have upgraded the cartridge? If so how did if sound before?

Or, have you recently purchased it new without a cartridge and tis is the first time you have used it? if so are you 100% sure the setup is perfect. Do you have the appropriate counterweight for the cart? And in this instance, have you listened to this actual record before, or is that new too. Modern remasters and pressings aren't always the best version. They can sacrifice dynamic range in favour of volume.

Seconded. The Zen has various settings, and I’d like to know if 60dB gain is the MC Low setting.

Running in isn’t the issue. The Quintet Red I heard at an Ortofon demo was quite decent, but the Reds are all the mellowest toned in each range. Very hard to diagnose remotely!

 

[Al ears]

Seconded. The Zen has various setting, and I’d like to know if 60dB gain is the MC Low setting.

Running in isn’t the issue. The Quintet Red I heard at an Ortofon demo was quite decent, but the Reds are all the mellowest toned in each range. Very hard to diagnose remotely!

Unfortunately the Quintets are perhaps not the best cartridges for the money. No real benefit over a moving magnet design for that money. However, as you say, there are many settings to play with on the Zen.

 

[daytona600]

Input impedance 50 ohms , Input gain 60dB
Quintet Red loading on my fifth now

 

[gasolin]

I don't know why op wanted a ifi zen phono 3 when he has an expensive pre amp

Personally i don't care for mc cartridges, my ifi air phono has the option for mc but the sweet spot for my phonostage is mm

good small speakers vs bigger mediocre speakers or good "small" amp vs bigger (more power) amp, i would always choose the smaller one that sounds better

return the cartridge and phonostage, if not possible sell it and get a good mm cartridge + use the phonostage in the pre amp, another option is to buy a better cartridge, pro-ject makes mc cartridges, if you still wanna use one

Cartridges – Pro-Ject Audio Systems

www.project-audio.com

 

[trebor1594]

Thakyou all for your input . I know the Dali's are the "weak link" but what i have failed to mention is that i am also running a REL T5X sub which raises their performance significantly .

I have upgraded from a Orofon Blue MM to the Quintet . I was first using the Blue in a Planar 1 with a Rega phono 2 - i was not impressed with the phono stage in the Rotel pre amp -but maybe that needed "running in "too !

I bought the Project classic with no cartridge fitted . I wanted to try moving coil but both the Rega and the Rotel pre amps dont cater for it. I tried the blue in the Classic before deciding to try the red MC l.It sounded pretty much the same as it did in the Planar1 -bass was better defined but any other differences were slight.

so i will fiddle with the setting on the IFi and see how it sounds after about 30 or so hours of playing.

 

[Fandango Andy]

Thakyou all for your input . I know the Dali's are the "weak link" but what i have failed to mention is that i am also running a REL T5X sub which raises their performance significantly .

I have upgraded from a Orofon Blue MM to the Quintet . I was first using the Blue in a Planar 1 with a Rega phono 2 - i was not impressed with the phono stage in the Rotel pre amp -but maybe that needed "running in "too !

I bought the Project classic with no cartridge fitted . I wanted to try moving coil but both the Rega and the Rotel pre amps dont cater for it. I tried the blue in the Classic before deciding to try the red MC l.It sounded pretty much the same as it did in the Planar1 -bass was better defined but any other differences were slight.

so i will fiddle with the setting on the IFi and see how it sounds after about 30 or so hours of playing.

A sub isn't going to improve the sound quality of the speaker, it is just going to give you more at lower frequencies. I think in saying the speakers are the weak link, the poster may be suggesting the speakers aren't as good as the cartridge and you may not notice the difference.

 

[trebor1594]

Im afraid you are completely wrong about the sub . The Rel has its own built in amp - it has a crossover that is adjustable and a gain control . You have to spend a good while setting this up so that it "disappears " its only when you turn it off that you then realise what it is adding to the sound . Its a completely different concept to a movie set up where you just want more bass.
Watch this well renownowed hi fi reviewrs video

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNO0BhcfqMA

 

[Fandango Andy]

Thakyou all for your input . I know the Dali's are the "weak link" but what i have failed to mention is that i am also running a REL T5X sub which raises their performance significantly .

I have upgraded from a Orofon Blue MM to the Quintet . I was first using the Blue in a Planar 1 with a Rega phono 2 - i was not impressed with the phono stage in the Rotel pre amp -but maybe that needed "running in "too !

I bought the Project classic with no cartridge fitted . I wanted to try moving coil but both the Rega and the Rotel pre amps dont cater for it. I tried the blue in the Classic before deciding to try the red MC l.It sounded pretty much the same as it did in the Planar1 -bass was better defined but any other differences were slight.

so i will fiddle with the setting on the IFi and see how it sounds after about 30 or so hours of playing.

There is a lot to unpick from your original question and the answers you have given. If I have understood you correctly, the turntable, cartridge and phono amp are all new. Also, you didn't particularly like your old setup. It also sounds like you didn't that one long either, as you are talking about running in again. Is this all correct? If it is, you have no real baseline for comparison. If you liked your new setup it wouldn't be a problem as you don't, you need a new starting point.

Do you still have the old Rega record player and preamp? if you do the first thing to try is the Old record player with the new Ifi to see how that performs. if that sounds muddy, there is your problem, and a better phono amp may do it.

Secondly, you could try the Orofon Blue with you new Pro-Ject record player. You can try that with both phot amps, and the inbuilt one in your amp. If you don't still have the old kit, you probably need to buy another cartridge to see how that performs.

Despite being expensive, the Ortofon Quintet Red is an entry level in the world of MC, so you are probably going to have to get closer to the £1,000 mark before you start getting a noticeable difference over a £200 MM.

Good luck, i sure you will get there inn the end.

 

[Fandango Andy]

Im afraid you are completely wrong about the sub . The Rel has its own built in amp - it has a crossover that is adjustable and a gain control . You have to spend a good while setting this up so that it "disappears " its only when you turn it off that you then realise what it is adding to the sound . Its a completely different concept to a movie set up where you just want more bass.
Watch this well renownowed hi fi reviewrs video

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNO0BhcfqMA

Not wrong, I think we are talking at cross purposes. I'm not saying a system won't sound better with the addition of a sub. I am saying it won't fix any shortcomings with a a loudspeaker except at the bottom end. For the record, you actually have good speakers, its just that your amp and record player are better.