Canton DM50 audio problems

[daveb73]

Hi everyone, I'm new here so please be gentle

I have just bought a Canton DM50 sound base and am running a bluray player and TV into it. Everything has been connected as per instructions - the TV via an optical toslink and the bluray player via a coaxial (both cables were supplied with the unit).

The issue I'm having is that, whilst watching a bluray, the audio is working fine when in the menu area, but when the movie actually starts to play there is no audio. On some discs you have the option to set a standard DD 5.1 track which resolves this issue, but many bluray films do not offer this manual option.

Another 'fix' was to go to the actual bluray player settings and set the Dolby Digital and DTS to 'downmix PCM' but from what I understand this converts the multi channel into a stereo channel which is less than ideal.

According to the specification the Canton does decode Dolby 5.1 and DTS but I don't know how to send the correct signal without comprimising to 2 channel stereo or manually setting a given films audio options to a standard 5.1 track (taking into account that a lot of films don't give this manual option).

Is there some setting I need to make on the bluray player in order to have 5.1 sent to the Canton correctly - shouldn't it just work?

My Bluray player is a Sony BDP-S350.

Many thanks

 

[Clare Newsome]

Hello!

We distribute Canton in the UK, so I can help on this one.

It's an HD audio/HDMI issue from the SONY (hence it being fine when you have a standard 5.1 track).

The solution should be simple: let your TV pass through the audio signal to the Canton, instead of having a direct connection. You've already got an HDMI running from the Blu-ray: let it carry both audio and video to the TV. The optical connection from your TV to the Canton should do the rest.

With other devices - Sky/Virgin boxes; DVD player; games consoles etc - you're fine running the optical or coax straight into the Canton.

Let me know how you get on!

 

[daveb73]

Hi Clare, thanks so much for your response.

I figured it might be something to do with HD audio but I am surprised that you can't just connect up a bluray player (as per Canton's own instructions) and it just work - I hooked up a Samsung bluray player last night and it had the same issue (unless I set the output to PCM).

Regarding running through the TV, I'm 99% sure that the optical out will only output 2 channel stereo regardless of the input from the bluray or other sources. From what I've researched for my TV (Panasonic TX50PST60 plazma), the optical out on the TV will only output 5.1 from an actual TV channel that is broadcasting 5.1 audio, all other output will be 2 channel.

What I'm finding odd is that Canton list Dolby Digital and DTS in the specifications yet it clearly states in the instruction manual:

"Please check the correct setting of your source device (see
Page 6). “DTS” or “Dolby Digital” coded output formats
cannot be reproduced."

What does this mean? When I get a bluray film that allows me to manually select standard Dolby Digital 5.1 from the audio options (not the bluray player options but the actual movie menu options) it works fine and sound is reproduced.

Just to clarify, will the Canton output the same surround 'effects' regardless of whether it recieves a 2 channel signal from the TV optical out or a 5.1 signal via the coaxial? I'm getting the impression that there will be some difference and there does seem to be some audible difference when I switch between the TV and DVD inputs, mainly the dialogue appears more central and clear when using a dirict coaxial connection from the bluray player as opposed to going through the TV.

Sorry for all the questions but I need to clarify all this as I'm really confused as to why Canton advertise Dolby Digital and DTS in the specifications:

Features:

bass and treble control
Dolby® Digital
DTS TruSurround®
Remote control
integrated Subwoofer
LED Display
LipSync function for exact speech synchronization
Virtual surround sound & stereo playback

Thanks again.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Think part of the issue here is the difference between formats the Canton can handle and those it can reproduce. Like any soundbase, it's not a surround sound device - it outputs in stereo or pseudo surround (which is where the DTS comes in - it's TruSurround, not decoding).

As you note, the key is finding the best place for the necessary processing to take place: the player, the TV or the Canton itself.

I've asked Canton for clarification and will get back ASAP.

 

[daveb73]

Hi Clare, thanks for getting back to me.

I think I've worked out the issue - the Canton will happily receive a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal which is why the odd bluray film plays fine, and is also why those that dont play but do have a 5.1 in the audio options, will end up playing fine.

The problem lies with the DTS formats I think - on the bluray player options, if I set my DTS digital option to 'downmix PCM' then the track plays fine (but will lack quality compared to 5.1). I can leave Dolby Digital as 'Dolby Digital' as the Canton appears to handle this just fine.

I would appreciate a response from Canton if you can get one though, as I'd like to know how they would suggest configuring things.

My main concern is where there could be a quality difference between the Canton receiving a 5.1 signal and a PCM signal - whether it's surround effects would be compromised dependant on imput.

As I said earlier, running through the TV via the optical I did notice a drop in dialogue centreing performance compared to a direct connect from the bluray player - this could be down to the fact that the Canton is only receiving a stereo signal from the optical (due to the TV's limitations).

thanks

 

[Clare Newsome]

Still waiting on an answer on the quality differences - some of which may be dependant on the TV/players concerned - but will forward that on when you get it.

But I was right re DTS: the Canton uses DTS TruSurround technology to create its psuedo-surround effects from the input it's receiving. But it does not include a DTS decoder. (This is becoming more common - see also SONOS Playbar - as manufacturers focus on streaming services/TV/set-top boxes rather than discs).

Therefore the handful of movies with a DTS-only soundtrack will need to be downmixed at some stage. Will wait on Canton's suggestions on this one...

 

[daveb73]

Thanks Clare, look forward to hearing from Canton on this one.

 

[daveb73]

Any news from Canton Clare?

thanks

 

[Clare Newsome]

Just got an email back from them. Essentially DTS TruSurround will find it easier to create a psuedo surround effect from a 5.1 input than a stereo one, as it's not having to use another layer of processing to 'create' a mix. There should be no degradation of sound: merely a less pronounced 'surround' effect.

Obviously none of this is an issue if using the DM50 in stereo mode, which (as the What Hi-fi review and others have stated) may be preferred anyway.

On the question of which is 'best' way to connect, it's impossible for Canton to give general advice on this, as there are too many possible permutations of TV/player/set-top box etc. Again, it comes down to personal preference: if you think it sounds better connected from player to DM50, go for it! Others may prefer to route all inputs via their TV, with a single lead going to the Canton.

Hope this helps! As I noted in an earlier post, lot of this comes down to the fact that soundbases are inherently very simple devices, designed to improve your TV sound: they're no replacement for an AV amp and full 5.1 sound, and neither are they designed to be.

 

[daveb73]

Thanks Clare

I think it's worth connecting the bluray player direct as it will output a DD 5.1 signal (when available) to the Canton - going through the TV will negate both a DTS and DD 5.1 as the TV downmixes to stereo through the optical-out in all cases.

There is a marked difference in both volume and the dynamics of the sound between a downmixed PCM (DTS) track and a DD 5.1 track - DD 5.1 is markedly better quality and the vocals are more centralised. Saying this, the downmixed DTS still sounds very good, just not as good as the DD 5.1.

What are the chances of a firmware update in the future to include DTS codecs, I see the Canton has a stand alone 'service' port connection?

thanks

 

[AlbaBrown]

yes, a little perspective is needed.

The Canton DM50 is just a (albeit exceptionally good) soundbase designed to give much better reproduction, and potentially wider dispertion than current TV speakers. It is simply not revealing enough though to convey the losses when DTS is being externally converted to PCM.

The point raised about the Sonos having a similar restriction is certainly more valid (and less forgivable) as that device is promoted as being at the center of having the potential to expand to a (very expensive) 5.1 system.

Just be content that you have by far the best sound plinth available at that price (with build quality that all-in-one 5.1 kits have no hope of matching at that price!)

 

[Clare Newsome]

Thanks Clare

I think it's worth connecting the bluray player direct as it will output a DD 5.1 signal (when available) to the Canton - going through the TV will negate both a DTS and DD 5.1 as the TV downmixes to stereo through the optical-out in all cases.

There is a marked difference in both volume and the dynamics of the sound between a downmixed PCM (DTS) track and a DD 5.1 track - DD 5.1 is markedly better quality and the vocals are more centralised. Saying this, the downmixed DTS still sounds very good, just not as good as the DD 5.1.

What are the chances of a firmware update in the future to include DTS codecs, I see the Canton has a stand alone 'service' port connection?

thanks

It's not on Canton's roadmap at moment - I know there are cost as well as technical issues involved (DTS charge a chunky licensing fee, regardless of whether you ever intend to use the decoding). Obviously if that changes i'll update you.

Re the downmixed PCM performance: have you tried switching the Canton to stereo mode when using that? You may prefer it, as it'll be cutting out any 'surround' processing.

 

[daveb73]

[/quote]

It's not on Canton's roadmap at moment - I know there are cost as well as technical issues involved (DTS charge a chunky licensing fee, regardless of whether you ever intend to use the decoding). Obviously if that changes i'll update you.

Re the downmixed PCM performance: have you tried switching the Canton to stereo mode when using that? You may prefer it, as it'll be cutting out any 'surround' processing.

[/quote]

Hi Clare and AlbaBrown, thanks for your feedback.

To answer your question Clare, yes, I have tried stereo mode when listening to DTS (PCM) discs and the dialogue does improve a bit, but at the cost of the psudo surround effect which is what I like during movie playback.

As you both say, the DM50 is not designed to be a high-end 5.1 solution, I fully understand this, I'm just a little dissapointed that it doesn't decode the DTS tracks as this was one of the deciding factors in chosing this model (I was missled by the advertised 'DTS TruSurround' feature).

It strikes me as odd that it decodes DD 5.1 but not DTS as the majority of newer bluray films seem to be DTS tracks (luckily, some include a DD 5.1 track in the audio options) but I get where you are coming from Clare, in that this is aimed more at the TV side of things, not bluray enthusiasts.

AlbaBrown, I completely agree RE the quality of both the sound and build of this product, in fact I'm absolutely blown away by the surround effect and overall audio quality when playing back a DD 5.1 disc - I was just a little dissapointed at the DTS (PCM) quality in comparison.

You say: "It is simply not revealing enough though to convey the losses when DTS is being externally converted to PCM." If I understand what you are saying here I dissagree entirely - When playing a bluray through the DM50, DTS downmixed to PCM sounds markedly less dynamic and punchy, and the dialogue is weeker when compared to a DD5.1 track. I can test this in real time during say Avatar, as that has DTS as the main track but you can switch to DD 5.1 during playback and the difference is considerable. Downmixed DTS is still very good, but DD 5.1 sounds fantastic!

For the record, I paired my ipod with the DM50 last night via bluetooth and again, I'm blown away by the sound quality for music play back!

Overall it's an incredible product and I can see why it got the 5 stars - personally, and now I've had a few days with it, I'd be happy to have paid an extra £50-£100 for DTS decoding, this would have been the icing on the cake for me.

Thanks to both of you fro taking the time to help me with some of my issues, I look forward to any more comments or advice you may have.

Dave

 

[Clare Newsome]

Thanks Dave. I'll be sure to alert Canton to your comments, plus let you know if there are DTS-shaped developments!

 

[byakuya83]

I'm getting one of these. Will mostly use for TV and Bluetooth from my iPad. When watching movies on my PS3 what would be the best audio setting/connection? For the most part it will be used in stereo but occasionally I might give the surround effect a try.

 

[daveb73]

I'm getting one of these. Will mostly use for TV and Bluetooth from my iPad. When watching movies on my PS3 what would be the best audio setting/connection? For the most part it will be used in stereo but occasionally I might give the surround effect a try.

Firstly i would suggest running your TV using the stereo option and your movies using the surround option (sounds much better).

From what I've read online, the PS3 has the capability to reencode DTS into Dolby Digital so if you set your digital output options in the PS3 audio options to this, then the Canton will be decoding all your DVD's and blurays from Dolby 5.1.

It's worth noting that the Canton sounds a lot better when it's fed a proper 5.1 track as well - if you set your digital audio to output PCM (2 channel stereo) only, then the sound created is noticably less loud, dynamic and spacious.

I purchased a Samsung bluray player that had the reencoding option specifically for this and all my blurays sound fantastic

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100003513589318]

Hi Clare

Hope you help me. My DM50 volume needs to be turned up to approx. 45 before any sound can be heard. I listen to movies at apprxo. 50-65 depending channels. This ends up to normal listening level nowhere near to loud. While this acceptablenI am wondering where the 200 Watts of power are.

Is tnis normal? Thanks for your kind comments.

Cheers

Marcus

 

[Clare Newsome]

Hi Marcus,

Is this an issue with all devices attached to the Canton?

And are you using the TV's remote, or the Canton's?

Let me know, and i'll get feedback from Canton. I've certainly never heard a DM50 struggle to produce a big sound; we were told to turn it down when demo-ing it at the Bristol Show, for example!

 

[Clare Newsome]

And here's some input from Canton:

"A realistic volume range for the general use is between 50-75; the volume range of 0-99 is in dB steps, this is why a realistic sound starts by 50."

 

[GurpalP]

Hi all,

I've just purchased a Canton DM50 and was wondering whether the TV sound should be muted when using it? Does it enhance the sound from the TV or should I use it as a standalone option when utilising it?

Hope that the question makes sense! Thanks for your help.

 

[Glacialpath]

Hi there. I'm pretty sure the internal TV sound should be turned off as that's what you do when you have a AV reciever. A Canton a basically a simpler AVR. There should be an option in your TVs menu to turn Speakers Off. Either that or when you connect to the Canton via Optical the TVs internal audio will be bypassed.

 

[RobGhigi]

Hi , I just bought the Canton DM 50, very happy with it, the volume is at 70 at the moment, it's does not seem that loud, any advice please ?

 

[Legacy260]

As mentioned above the level shown on the blue display of the DM 50 is a decibel level. Anywhere from 68-80 is easily enough to enjoy any film or tv programme. Turn it way up and the sound becomes uncomfortable but rarely distorted. You have nothing to worry about, if you were thinking that the level goes from 1-100 and is 70 nearly as loud as it gets.....it isnt even half way there.

 

[Visitt]

I've just bought a Canton DM50 and want to know the optimum set up incorporating an Xbox one, Sky HD box and my Sony Bravia TV. At the moment I've got the optical running from Sky to the DM50 and the analogue rca cable running from the Bravia to the DM50. Not sure with this set up I'm going to get the best sound from the Xbox One especially as I play Blu Rays with this. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

 

[Barleymo]

I have just bought this sound base and the sound is good, just waiting for the speakers to bed in. I must admit it's weird having the sound up high in numbers ie listening to a normal sound volume but on 60 but as you crank it up the volume rises.