Can we hear sound above 20kHz!

[nopiano]

Is having a tweeter being able to produce super high frequencies above 20khz better for the frequencies under 20khz in terms of smoothness or resonance?

I’ve always broadly believed that, yes. Because from 15kHz to 30kHz is only an octave, and it’s generally accepted that young humans can hear up to 20kHz. After that it rather depends on the design, but most dome tweeters resonate north of 20kHz, and the higher the better.

As you say, the further the resonance is from any likely signals the better. An unfortunate side-effect of hi-res mastering can be spikes outside audibility, and we don’t want those modulating wanted signals either.

You can see the HF resonances in reviews of speakers in Stereophile and Hifi News, many of which are searchable on their websites.

 

[AJM1981]

Is having a tweeter being able to produce super high frequencies above 20khz better for the frequencies under 20khz in terms of smoothness or resonance?

Frequency ranges of a well configured tweeter don’t overlap with the midrange and are not smoothing anything out.

The “super tweeters” I came across are mostly ribbon or AMT and they give a different signature within the audible. Placing them on top of a loudspeaker to replace another type of tweeter will both change the literal position and the signature of the tweeter. So you basically end up with a “different loudspeaker”.

The inaudible frequencies won’t do anything.

 

[Jasonovich]

Frequency ranges of a well configured tweeter don’t overlap with the midrange and are not smoothing anything out.

The “super tweeters” I came across are mostly ribbon or AMT and they give a different signature within the audible. Placing them on top of a loudspeaker to replace another type of tweeter will both change the literal position and the signature of the tweeter. So you basically end up with a “different loudspeaker”.

The inaudible frequencies won’t do anything.

Yes it has changed the character slightly, on my Dali Oberon 3 but in a good way. The range on my Dali's is 47-26k Hz. I have my extender tweeters set to 10kHz and onwards.

The enhanced support of the upper frequencies reminds of that song by Lou Bega Mambo No. 5 (a Little Bit of...).

It gives that nice bit of sparkle and a lift. It may not work with all speakers but it actually does nicely with the Dali's

 

[AJM1981]

Yes it has changed the character slightly, on my Dali Oberon 3 but in a good way. The range on my Dali's is 47-26k Hz. I have my extender tweeters set to 10kHz and onwards.

The enhanced support of the upper frequencies reminds of that song by Lou Bega Mambo No. 5 (a Little Bit of...).

It gives that nice bit of sparkle and a lift. It may not work with all speakers but it actually does nicely with the Dali's

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View attachment 8457

First of all.. nice one.

The point made in that it elevates the physical position creating a slightly different vertical soundstage ánd the type of tweeter does the rest. But it still makes everything work withing the audible range.

Also sound signature besides this is defined by emphasis. When bass or treble is in some way stronger, the mids automatically get a little bit less pronounced. You might even try the wharfedale AMT tweeter effect by adding a resistor between to slightly make the output slightly less bright. Which would be on my list having this syste.. But that is all according to taste.

I own a three way system with an AMT tweeter and a two way bookshelf system. I like the slightly broader vertical soundstage in a bigger space and details produced by the AMT system, but it automatically makes it slightly less forgiving. Both loudspeakers have their charm.

 

[Jasonovich]

First of all.. nice one.

The point made in that it elevates the physical position creating a slightly different vertical soundstage ánd the type of tweeter does the rest. But it still makes everything work withing the audible range.

Also sound signature besides this is defined by emphasis. When bass or treble is in some way stronger, the mids automatically get a little bit less pronounced. You might even try the wharfedale AMT tweeter effect by adding a resistor between to slightly make the output slightly less bright. Which would be on my list having this syste.. But that is all according to taste.

I own a three way system with an AMT tweeter and a two way bookshelf system. I like the slightly broader vertical soundstage in a bigger space and details produced by the AMT system, but it automatically makes it slightly less forgiving. Both loudspeakers have their charm.

Nice

 

[RJW232]

I play the audio test tones on Spotify and I can hear 13kHz easily and just hear 14kHz, if turned up a bit.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn07AMCfaAI

The question is how pure these tones are. Spotify uses a lot of compressions, so you could also hear artefacts of lower frequencies. I used to work at the Philips audio R&D department and to test DAC's we used two test tones of 19 and 20 kHz. If we heard a sound we knew something was wrong....

 

[Gray]

I used to work at the Philips audio R&D department and to test DAC's we used two test tones of 19 and 20 kHz. If we heard a sound we knew something was wrong....

Was that simultaneously and to test for intermodulation distortion - or one at a time to make sure they were getting through?

 

[podknocker]

The question is how pure these tones are. Spotify uses a lot of compressions, so you could also hear artefacts of lower frequencies. I used to work at the Philips audio R&D department and to test DAC's we used two test tones of 19 and 20 kHz. If we heard a sound we knew something was wrong....

I've no reason to doubt their accuracy and to be honest, it's not a big deal for me. It was a 5 minute experiment to see if I could hear the higher frequencies. I really don't care if they are not totally accurate, as I don't spend my time listening to test tones. I still don't know why anyone would spend so much of their time listening to these test tones anyway. When I play my tunes on Spotify, I never wonder if there are really high frequencies coming from my speakers. I reckon 99% of the tunes I listen to don't contain anything above 10 kHz and I'm fine with that. Test tones are not music and I doubt I'll listen to these test tones ever again. I get a really good sound from my £2k system and a new pair of speakers might give me a bit more treble, but I don't think a large outlay would really be worth it. My next demo won't include any CDs of test tones. Your music may contain harmonics above 10 kHz and some may reach 20 kHz, but it's up to your amp and speakers to actually maintain and reproduce these sounds. Very few people own HIFI capable of preserving and reproducing this stuff accurately., without distortion. I think you'd need to be superhuman to detect very high frequencies and hear any distortion of these frequencies. I think many people are looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[abacus]

Test tones are great to check that your system is set up correctly, however once done there will be no need to use them again unless you change your system.

Test tomes don't take up much space so no need to remove information to make the files smaller.

Bill

 

[Revolutions]

Test tones are great to check that your system is set up correctly, however once done there will be no need to use them again unless you change your system.

Test tomes don't take up much space so no need to remove information to make the files smaller.

Bill

You are forever wise & succinct, always a joy to see your replies. I’d love to read a book of Bill-isms.