I visited a dear old colleage recently and found his Cambridge Audio Azur 651 based system to be quite capable - surprisingly transparent, punchy, taught yet articulate bottom end and reasonably fast. This got me thinking that the 851E preamp & 851W power must be superb value for money. If you have experience comparing the 851E & 851W combo to the likes of Bryston, Rotel etc. or Emotiva across the pond, I would be very interested. It seems to me like Cambridge Audio is one of those high value brands being overlooked these days - just compare the number of reviews of (say) Bryston gear, Cambridge Audio seem to be mostly overlooked especially in the UK - or am I mistaken? I have gone through a few upgrades myself over the years and now have Bryston 3BSST2 feeding a pair of PMC PB1i Signatures. Would the experts here recommend upgrading to 851E & 851W or would I be better off saving up for a Electrocompaniet AW180 ? As always, the ideal scenario would be a home demo but I do not see a chance for that so your comments would be much appreciated.
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Cambridge Audio Azur 851E & 851W
- Thread starter Theo
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We need more of these Asian Cambridge Audio ads in Europe to get sales going. I mean, Ben Baumont is hot and all but I wont diverge from heterosexuality over some hi-fi.
Electro
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I have not heard the Cambridge audio models you mention and they do seem like good value for money, but in your situation I would rather keep the Bryston 3BSST2 . What pre-amp are you using ?
As I am sure you already know the PMC PB1i's are very revealing of the components that feed them and they need a very good amp to drive them if you want to hear what they are really capable of, the Bryston 3b is about the minimum you need imo .
I would save up the money for a Bryston BP26 and 4BSST2 if you like the ultra clean and powerful Bryston sound , this combo will drive the PB1i's to live music levels without distortion and they also have that reassuring 20 year warranty .
As you can see from my signature I personally prefer The Electrocompaniet EC 4.8 pre and AW 180 monoblocks that you mentioned , they are a bit more expensive that the Brystons and they are very big and heavy but believe me they are worth it , the extra presense combined with the power and scale is amazing , with good recording the musicians sound like they are there in front of you in the space they were playing in when they were recorded.
I would not call myself an expert but I do know that imo the PMC / Electrocompaniet combo is one of the most realistic sounding systems that I have ever heard .*smile*
As I am sure you already know the PMC PB1i's are very revealing of the components that feed them and they need a very good amp to drive them if you want to hear what they are really capable of, the Bryston 3b is about the minimum you need imo .
I would save up the money for a Bryston BP26 and 4BSST2 if you like the ultra clean and powerful Bryston sound , this combo will drive the PB1i's to live music levels without distortion and they also have that reassuring 20 year warranty .
As you can see from my signature I personally prefer The Electrocompaniet EC 4.8 pre and AW 180 monoblocks that you mentioned , they are a bit more expensive that the Brystons and they are very big and heavy but believe me they are worth it , the extra presense combined with the power and scale is amazing , with good recording the musicians sound like they are there in front of you in the space they were playing in when they were recorded.
I would not call myself an expert but I do know that imo the PMC / Electrocompaniet combo is one of the most realistic sounding systems that I have ever heard .*smile*
Thanks Electro.
Actually, it was you who introduced me to the PMC range of speakers - this was in another forum I had been discussing B&W 802s and the fact that they are unsuitable for low volume listening. I started off with a PMC Twenty 24 and found the lows not strong enough for my taste then stubled upon a set of PMC PB1i Signatures at a dealership. I am currently running a NAD M51 Pre/DAC direct to the power amp. Prior to the Brystons, I had a pair of Emotiva Monoblocks - actually I regret selling those as I didn't get the sort of upgrade I was looking for moving to the lower powered Bryston. I have heard about the PMC/Electrocompaniet synergy in other forums and this is still an option but its a long term goal I have to admit. In the meantime, I am tempted to revert to back the Generation 2 of Emotiva XPA-1s which runs 60W in Class A. Then there is the Cambridge Audio Azur 851s - I am seriously tempted to try this at home somehow - no one seem to have any opinon on these ones but for the asking price, I am not sure whether there is anything better out there.
Actually, it was you who introduced me to the PMC range of speakers - this was in another forum I had been discussing B&W 802s and the fact that they are unsuitable for low volume listening. I started off with a PMC Twenty 24 and found the lows not strong enough for my taste then stubled upon a set of PMC PB1i Signatures at a dealership. I am currently running a NAD M51 Pre/DAC direct to the power amp. Prior to the Brystons, I had a pair of Emotiva Monoblocks - actually I regret selling those as I didn't get the sort of upgrade I was looking for moving to the lower powered Bryston. I have heard about the PMC/Electrocompaniet synergy in other forums and this is still an option but its a long term goal I have to admit. In the meantime, I am tempted to revert to back the Generation 2 of Emotiva XPA-1s which runs 60W in Class A. Then there is the Cambridge Audio Azur 851s - I am seriously tempted to try this at home somehow - no one seem to have any opinon on these ones but for the asking price, I am not sure whether there is anything better out there.
I think you can do better than Cambridge Audio. I owned the 840C CD player for 3 years. It was fine but I found it boring. I heard many of their amps too before and they are always very competent but some how just boring. The Emotiva stuff is cheap for the money and has value but you get wait you pay for. Not excited by their stuff either.
Bryston is much better than either of those brands but it should be as it cost more. 20 year warranty! Electrocompient is also better. I have no idea why in the world you would want to trade in your Bryston amp for a Cambridge Audio one? The Electro would only be side-ways move as well.
What is your price range? What pre-amp are you using now?
Bryston is much better than either of those brands but it should be as it cost more. 20 year warranty! Electrocompient is also better. I have no idea why in the world you would want to trade in your Bryston amp for a Cambridge Audio one? The Electro would only be side-ways move as well.
What is your price range? What pre-amp are you using now?
Electro
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Theo said:
Have a look at this Ex demo Electro AW 250 dual mono stereo power amp .
http://www.audiodestination.co.uk/used-products/electrocompaniet-aw-250-r-power-amplifier
250 wpc - 8 ohms
380wpc- 4 ohms
625wpc - 2ohms
1100wpc - 1 ohm
100 amps peak current delivery .
This will drive the PB1i's like little else on the planet , it is just a touch smoother than some other Electro amps but that is not going to be a problem with the PMC's
I am also confident that you will be able to negotiate the price *smile*
I bought my amps from Audio Destination .*good*
Electro
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Vladimir said:
Only time will tell if reliability can be added to the list of things Andrew Everard loved about the Cambridge audio pair .
They do seem like good value but they could not be described as cheap *smile*
http://andreweverard.com/2014/05/30/review-cambridge-audio-azur-851e851w/
Not cheap, not pricey. It competes with Rotel separates but does it win, I don't know.
Electrocompaniet is a class above, so not really comparable. The cheapest Mercedes is better in many ways than the TOTL Dacia. *biggrin*
Electrocompaniet is a class above, so not really comparable. The cheapest Mercedes is better in many ways than the TOTL Dacia. *biggrin*
Great feedabck, thanks! That AW250 looks tempting too, would that be smooth as in laid back or tubey compared to other Electros? Partly my issue could be listening room dimensions at 24' x 10' it is long and narrow and I keep the PB1is along the length at about 8 feet apart. So the sidewalls are too far away and the back wall is too close. As you know, the PB1is are known to be very sensitive to placement and when placed the way I have done, the lower mids and bottom end suffers - I see no way out with that. I have an absorption panel behind the speakers which has improved things a bit but the side walls being too far means bottom end energy suffers. I am a huge fan of the THTST album http://www.thtst.com and the PB1is should be ideal to convey the energy, attack and articulation of the percussion instruments but I find myself having to turn the volume way high up to experience that. And I have heard the PB1is sounding way better than this albeit at a dealership and it was while back but they were using some Marantz gear. So my quest continues and I want to be sure before buying any more components - hence the reason for this thread. Perhaps my room characteristics mean I will have to go with tone controls to boost the lows - so far have tried to keep away from this route but maybe the 851E/W duo will be a better match because of that.
Electro
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Theo said:
The AW250 is not laid back or boring at all , it is incredibly powerful and dynamic right across the frequency spectrum but it is slightly more tubey sounding than some of the other power amps but only slightly so , it combines incredible power and impact but is also detailed and delicate in equal measure .
The bass power, dynamics and slam it can provide will make you Bryston sound a little anemic and weak but the mid and top are never overpowered or masked by the powerful bottom end when the music gets complicated and loud , it has almost unlimited transient power !
If I were you I would put the panel or panels behind you head on the wall because you are so close to the speakers and your head to the wall , the fact that the speakers are not near the sidewalls is a good thing and should not affect the bass amount or impact .
My room is 24' x 15' and my PB1i's are on the long wall away from the sidewalls and I experience very deep sub bass and incredible impact that can with some recordings pressurise the whole room even at low volumes , drums sound like real live drums with all the impact leading edges and textural decay , deep synth bass feels like you are floating on vibrating air !
If you are really interested I am sure Mike and Caroline at Audiodestination will let you try the AW250 before you buy it , they are very helpful *smile*
The AW250 is utterly borring and laidback. Unfortunately due to its vulgar 250Wpc in 8 ohms, 1100Wpc in 1 ohm, 100A high current delivery, extremely low global negative feedback, it reproduces all frequencies in the recording at full with no THD or IMD, at a very wide bandwidth, with any speaker on the planet. What were they thinking? We need musicality, PRaT and exciting sound, not a welder.
(maybe reverse psychology will work?)
(maybe reverse psychology will work?)
Very useful comments again as usual, what a great resource we have here in the forum.
Didn't mean to stray away from the original discussion and title of this thread but as usual, I find it very difficult to gather feedback comparing Cambridge Audio Azur 851E & 851W vs other mainstream brands.
Count me impressed already 🙂
Now why didn't I think of that - it makes perfect sense and I think you make a strong point here - my seating position is indeed too close to the wall and no doubt all the reflections would have a significant effect. I am going to order some good quality foam tiles to stick on the wall behind my seating position. The other panels are probably best left as-is, being professional grade, heavy and intrusive, they will not be suitable to fix on the wall area being seating position.
I am based in Scotland so I will have to see what the best option would be here - but thanks for the tip anyway.
Vladimir said:
Didn't mean to stray away from the original discussion and title of this thread but as usual, I find it very difficult to gather feedback comparing Cambridge Audio Azur 851E & 851W vs other mainstream brands.
Electro said:
Count me impressed already 🙂
Electro said:
Now why didn't I think of that - it makes perfect sense and I think you make a strong point here - my seating position is indeed too close to the wall and no doubt all the reflections would have a significant effect. I am going to order some good quality foam tiles to stick on the wall behind my seating position. The other panels are probably best left as-is, being professional grade, heavy and intrusive, they will not be suitable to fix on the wall area being seating position.
Electro said:
I am based in Scotland so I will have to see what the best option would be here - but thanks for the tip anyway.
Electro
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I put three large panels on the wall behind my head and it made a massive improvement to everything !
Next year I am planning to move things around and point the speakers down the length of the room with bass traps in the corners and a mixture of absorbtion and diffusion panels on the side walls and leaving at least 7' clearance behind my head to see if it is an improvement ,but I am in no hurry because it sounds so dam good as it is !*smile*
If you did decide to try the AW250 I think that you could do so for the cost of the return postage in the very unlikely event that it did not change your whole perception of what is possible from a good HiFi system .
It is worth a phone call .*smile*
Next year I am planning to move things around and point the speakers down the length of the room with bass traps in the corners and a mixture of absorbtion and diffusion panels on the side walls and leaving at least 7' clearance behind my head to see if it is an improvement ,but I am in no hurry because it sounds so dam good as it is !*smile*
If you did decide to try the AW250 I think that you could do so for the cost of the return postage in the very unlikely event that it did not change your whole perception of what is possible from a good HiFi system .
It is worth a phone call .*smile*
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