Buying hifi without auditioning.

[idc]

I have bought the majority of my hifi without auditioning it first. The first two serious hifi systems I bought were purely on the strength of awards in magazines, including What Hifi. When I went to start on the upgrade ladder I made my one and only unauditioned purchase that I was very unhappy with, a CDP. By then I was in Glasgow so I auditioned its replacement and for the next few years I was able to audition kit. But then I moved away and so for the next few years purchases were unauditioned. Now I am back in the big smoke and can easily access auditioning again.

But, over the past 10 years or so, with the rise of the internet, I now have access to loads of different reviews. I also have access to forums. I can happily spend hours reading up on products. So even though I can easily access five dealers, my last three purchases have been unauditioned. And I am delighted with them.

It seems to me that, so long as you do your research, there is no problem buying unauditioned. Or, could I have done better and I just dont realise it?

 

[Anonymous]

all my purchases so far have been without auditioning ... reason is that I cannot afford new, so buy vintage/classic gear

did audition a new cambridge audio system with mezzo 8 speakers (did not enjoy that system) and was also keen on buying a naim supernait amp (on terms) so spent approx 1 1/2 hrs listening to a sytem with a naim amp ...

The naim system was good, but then was not sure if it was all that much better than what I already have, so have shelved that (for now) ... went about it the wrong way, as I need to connect the naim amp on my system at home and see how it works with my current cdp and speakers in my lounge/listening room

I read old reviews, ask plenty questions and frequent several forums where people who have actually owned the gear comment ... I prefer doing it that way, than just reading a review from a magazine who has spent 30 min testing the kit, then you read another review from another magazine which is in total contrast to the 1st

the hardest part is combining the older gear to create a superb overall system and to ensure that all items match each other

so far, I think I have been very lucky ... dont have the best system, but feel I have the best for what I paid

 

[idc]

dim_span:

I read old reviews, ask plenty questions and frequent several forums where people who have actually owned the gear comment ... I prefer doing it that way, than just reading a review from a magazine who has spent 30 min testing the kit, then you read another review from another magazine which is in total contrast to the 1st

I am sure that the serious hifi magazine reviews are more than 30 minute listening sessions. I have also found that there is quite a consistency between reviews. Any differences can be easily explained by different kit and different rooms.

 

[Anonymous]

i think speakers and headphones are a must listen other components not so important

it also pays to read between the lines of the review and know the preferences of the reviewer as the sound she or he likes may be anathematic to you

 

[Anonymous]

well one example was the gotham interconnect? .... people who owned the interconnect gave rave reviews (for the price paid) ... then read a review 'somewhere' (cannot remember where?) ... that was in total contrast and actually very 'demeaning'

 

[John Duncan]

dim_span:then read a review 'somewhere' (cannot remember where?) ... that was in total contrast and actually very 'demeaning'

Here, possibly?

 

[Anonymous]

that review was a 'bit rough' (based on what owner's of the interconnect had to say)

 

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:dim_span:then read a review 'somewhere' (cannot remember where?) ... that was in total contrast and actually very 'demeaning'

Here, possibly?

and here is an 8 page set of reviews from people that actually bought the interconnect, ran them in and commented ... a 'bit different' from what WHF had to say? ... for less than £20 delivered? .... thats why I prefer reading what owners have to say

LINK REMOVED BY MODS - please read the House Rules

 

[Craig M.]

i would always trust a review from whf over a forum review. how many cables do you think the guys at the mag have heard? with the same methodology and kit for each test? sure sometimes they go a bit mad with talk of night and day differences, but with respect to the link you provided (which will prob be removed and could get you in a spot of bother), i doubt any of those guys have the experience of whf team or have used the same kit consistently for all their cable comparisons.

 

[Anonymous]

Craig M.:

i would always trust a review from whf over a forum review. how many cables do you think the guys at the mag have heard? with the same methodology and kit for each test? sure sometimes they go a bit mad with talk of night and day differences, but with respect to the link you provided (which will prob be removed and could get you in a spot of bother), i doubt any of those guys have the experience of whf team or have used the same kit consistently for all their cable comparisons.

oops .... sorry craig

 

[Frank Harvey]

I think with a bit of research you can build some pretty good systems, although I do think it helps to have an idea of how a particular manufacturer sounds TO YOU. We're all too individual for one product to be the answer to all our prayers. If we were, there would only be one type of car on the road.

Once you get above entry level and start entering the mid priced sector of the market, most products are good, and putting them with other products won't produce any serious disasters. But one thing I will say is that people who build systems this way don't usually have a point of reference - they don't really know if they have the best for their money, and also don't really know whether there's another product out there that might've 'sang' in their system rather than just being good. I've done it myself in the past with discontinued products, and bought stuff without hearing them, but it's usually been products that I've heard other models within that range.I sort of stopped doing it when I purchased a used Krell power amplifier which did nothing for the KEF Reference 4.2's I had at the time. At almost £2k, it was an expensive mistake to make. I have bought KEF Reference without audition before, but that's because I know what to expect.

I think when using reviews and forums, you are at the mercy of what somebody else is saying. They're not you, they don't know what you like, only what they like. Forums can be a haven of extremely useful info, and can also be home to some complete nonsense. Apart from people who have only ever heard their own system, you'll find plenty of people who, in their genuine efforts to be helpful, are just repeating what they've read elsewhere - whether that info is accurate or not.

Auditioning is the only way to truly know what a product is capable of, and how well it will suit other components.

 

[Anonymous]

I think when using reviews and forums, you are at the mercy of what somebody else is saying

yes Frank ... but when 30 or more people say the same thing, then I stand up and listen a bit more carefully ... that's the way I have been buying and have been fine (so far) ... will continue to upgrade in this manner

and when reading a review in a magazine, I only use it as a basic guideline ... I prefer to hear what owner's of the items have to say .... many people who frequent the hifi forums are passionate about their systems, are experienced and have owned several systems ... so I take all on board, then make my own decision based on that

 

[Anonymous]

couldnt agree more dave about auditioning that is

the trouble with forums is that people are intensely loyal to the products they have or admire and dont have the chance to hear lots of equipment so a bit if bias creeps inn

on the other hand issues like reliability dont usually come up in the reviews but in the forums simply because reviewers dont usually keep gear for long so arent aware if there are problems

 

[Anonymous]

couldnt agree more dave about auditioning that is

I agree with that statement 100% ... but sometimes you cannot audition (especially when buying used gear or older gear) ...

we see many posts on this forum where people live in other countries and cannot audition all the components together in 1 system, so they ask for advice from people who have owned the said systems

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thanks oneoff.

Only problem there is you're more likely to hear of problems on forums rather than whether it works faultlessly. This is good for finding out any niggly issues or bath problems, but bad if it's a product that is 99.99% reliable. In other words, bringing up problems on a forum that migtht only affect a couple of people may put a lot of people off, underservedly.

 

[Craig M.]

no need to apologise to me dim_span, i spend quite a bit of time over there.

was just pointing out that links to other forums are usually deleted, esp that one

however, that cable was flavour of the month over there and was then dropped in favour of something else by a lot of posters there.

 

[Anonymous]

craig, am not disputing the gotham cables, just pointing out that I feel WHF review was a bit 'below the belt' on that one, especially when it only cost a tenner ...

most of the people who commented, were actually very happy with the Gotham considering what was paid .(as can be read on the link I posted) .. their comments are totally opposite to the WHF review?

I also bought the following 'flavour of the month' (Silver High Breed) ... sounds fine (actually sounds very good on my system) and have been using it for a while ... (seems to get better the more you use it) ... not bad for what I paid .... would love to get an expensive one (hopefully I might get lucky at a carboot or charity shop)

 

[Dave_]

Craig M.:however, that cable was flavour of the month over there and was then dropped in favour of something else by a lot of posters there. It was flavour of the month here too, and the review led to the infamous "gotham thread"

dim_span:most of the people who commented, were actually very happy with the
Gotham considering what was paid .(as can be read on the link I posted)
.. their comments are totally opposite to the WHF review? The vast majority also failed to mention build quality too.I got caught up in Gotham forum hype, and the one i received had the look and feel of something that had been knocked up in a garage(badly) and the sound to match.

 

[Anonymous]

daveh75:Craig M.:however, that cable was flavour of the month over there and was then dropped in favour of something else by a lot of posters there. It was flavour of the month here too, and the review led to the infamous "gotham thread"

at the end of the day, it cost a tenner ... was well received and reviewed by most owners (for the price paid) ... some compared it favourably to interconnects that cost several times more .... was never really compared by WHF with something similar that cost the same price which IMHO was totally unfair and below the belt:

That's about it for the good news, though - having the measure of a cable costing £0.00 isn't enough to make the GAC-1 a product worthy of serious consideration.
the Gotham Swiss will do a job for you - in much the same way that a pair of slippers is better for mountaineering than going barefoot.

then you read the comments from people who actually bought the interconnect and it's in total contrast? ... 8 pages of comments?

that's why I stated that I always prefer reading reviews from owners and not from magazines ... I read reviews from magazines, then shortlist items based on their reviews, ... then reasearch further

 

[Anonymous]

pleeeze dont let them review the silver high breed ... I'd be gutted if they said it was carp!

 

[idc]

dim_span:pleeeze dont let them review the silver high breed ... I'd be gutted if they said it was carp!

I wont, as they cost about £20 and they work for me. Chunky cables also got regular mentions in the same SHB thread. But I went with SHB because they were continually described as bright, which I like and they use silver, which again is described as bright.

The star rating system employed here and elsewhere has come under discussion at various times. I have looked at star ratings, but prefer descriptions of sound. So What Hif have given products 4 stars and I have still bought them, because of the description of the sound. I also look for corroboration. That way, if What Hifi say they feel something is too bright, but elsewhere, the descriptions are still 'its bright' but do not have that as a criticism, then I will consider that good. But if both reviews say it is too much, I would worry.

Reader reviews are good, but bandwagons and favourites can form too quickly, so I am wary. Where applicable I do check out Amazon reader reviews of products as there are often so many, you can get a very good idea of what a product is like overall.

I cringe when I see first posts of 'what amp?' and it appears a purchase has then been made on the responses to that alone.

 

[matthewpiano]

I think auditions are very compromised things because room acoustics make such a difference, particularly to the performance of a loudspeaker. There is no substitute for home demonstration to find out how well a set-up will perform in its target environment.

Having said that, the best two auditions I've ever had were very informative and told me a great deal about the equipment I was hearing. The first was an amp shoot-out at Practical Hi-Fi (now Audio T) in Preston during which I listened to a Naim Nait 5i, Rotel RA-06, Arcam A80, Marantz PM7001 KI-Signature, and an Audiolab 8000S. The equipment was set up well and I was left to rifle through my own selection of music. It gave me time to realise that the Naim is worth the extra over the others and, if it hadn't been for another bill at the time, I would have gone for it.

The second was an all-Rega demonstration at Southport Hi-Fi where the guy was a real music enthusiast and very positive about Rega products. The Apollo/Brio 3/R3 set-up was superb and I regret being swayed by a Denon set-up (PMA/DCD1500AE) at another dealer. The demonstration showed me the strengths and (relatively minor) weaknesses of the Rega kit and when I make my next change it will be for a similar Rega set-up. I'll be going back to Southport Hi-Fi for it as well.

I do think it is possible to put together a decent set-up without audition but I think its always best to spend that bit more time and energy listening to a choice of kit where it can be done.

 

[plastic penguin]

matthewpiano:I think auditions are very compromised things because room acoustics make such a difference, particularly to the performance of a loudspeaker. There is no substitute for home demonstration to find out how well a set-up will perform in its target environment. Having said that, the best two auditions I've ever had were very informative and told me a great deal about the equipment I was hearing. The first was an amp shoot-out at Practical Hi-Fi (now Audio T) in Preston during which I listened to a Naim Nait 5i, Rotel RA-06, Arcam A80, Marantz PM7001 KI-Signature, and an Audiolab 8000S. The equipment was set up well and I was left to rifle through my own selection of music. It gave me time to realise that the Naim is worth the extra over the others and, if it hadn't been for another bill at the time, I would have gone for it. The second was an all-Rega demonstration at Southport Hi-Fi where the guy was a real music enthusiast and very positive about Rega products. The Apollo/Brio 3/R3 set-up was superb and I regret being swayed by a Denon set-up (PMA/DCD1500AE) at another dealer. The demonstration showed me the strengths and (relatively minor) weaknesses of the Rega kit and when I make my next change it will be for a similar Rega set-up. I'll be going back to Southport Hi-Fi for it as well. I do think it is possible to put together a decent set-up without audition but I think its always best to spend that bit more time and energy listening to a choice of kit where it can be done.

 

[bigboss]

There will always be an element of risk when buying without auditioning. I almost bought the Pioneer receiver when I went to the Sound and Vision show in Bristol. Luckily I didn't. It sounded horrible to me when I auditioned it later.

Having said that, I've bought a lot of things without checking them out. In fact, I bought my first car online without ever test driving it! I just saw the car on the road once, liked it, & ordered it online at a significant discount.

 

[matthewpiano]

plastic penguin:
matthewpiano:I think auditions are very compromised things because room acoustics make such a difference, particularly to the performance of a loudspeaker. There is no substitute for home demonstration to find out how well a set-up will perform in its target environment. Having said that, the best two auditions I've ever had were very informative and told me a great deal about the equipment I was hearing. The first was an amp shoot-out at Practical Hi-Fi (now Audio T) in Preston during which I listened to a Naim Nait 5i, Rotel RA-06, Arcam A80, Marantz PM7001 KI-Signature, and an Audiolab 8000S. The equipment was set up well and I was left to rifle through my own selection of music. It gave me time to realise that the Naim is worth the extra over the others and, if it hadn't been for another bill at the time, I would have gone for it. The second was an all-Rega demonstration at Southport Hi-Fi where the guy was a real music enthusiast and very positive about Rega products. The Apollo/Brio 3/R3 set-up was superb and I regret being swayed by a Denon set-up (PMA/DCD1500AE) at another dealer. The demonstration showed me the strengths and (relatively minor) weaknesses of the Rega kit and when I make my next change it will be for a similar Rega set-up. I'll be going back to Southport Hi-Fi for it as well. I do think it is possible to put together a decent set-up without audition but I think its always best to spend that bit more time and energy listening to a choice of kit where it can be done.

Why the raised eyebrows PP?

I'm not changing at present if that is why!! I'm very happy. I just know what my next step will be, thats all. These auditions were some time ago.