BLOWN Mordaunt-Short Aviano 1 with Denon PMA-510AE; what to do?

[CallumMcLean1]

Hey guys,

I bought a combo of a pair of Mordaunt-Short Aviano 1s and my Denon PMA-510AE amp from Richer Sounds about two years ago now (Specs here for the Denon and here for the Mordaunt-Shorts). I was very happy with the combo at first but the whole setup has been through a bumpy ride - basically several house parties.. I'm not very clued up on troubleshooting these incidents and want to work out whether there could be anything wrong with my setup other than a blown speaker, before I go ahead and start shopping for replacements.

One of my aviano 1s has now been blown TWICE, just recently about a year after replacing the woofer the first time. At the moment the cone has come well away from the rubber, it's a grizzly sight to behold! Last time was similar, though a much smaller part of the cone became detached (which is what causes the rattling). Worse, although it looks absolutely fine, the other also seems to rattle a tiny bit at high volume, though I think it sounds fine at low and medium volume, especially as it sits very near me on my desk.

I'd like some advice on:

1) whether it sounds like my second speaker might be blown

2) whether I'm safe to just replace the one woofer again and continue with this setup

and

3) how I can avoid this happening again, other than buying a subwoofer to use for future parties

I use a turntable with its own preamp and an RCA-jack cable into my laptop mostly for music, that both go direct into the Denon. But I also have a set of CDJs and a mixer that I use - these are what were being used at all the parties, including the ones where my speaker blew. I never allow the output from the mixer to go past halfway, and it's usually quieter than an iPod through the line-in on the Denon at the same volume. I certainly never let the Denon's volume go past about 2-3 o'clock and 99% of the time have it well below halfway.

I thought previously that I might have run into trouble at parties when DJs (some amateur) turned the channel volumes of tracks up so they peaked. Also, rarely, someone has pulled the RCA-jack out (of an iPod or my laptop) without taking the Denon's volume down first, so it makes a god-awful noise. But perhaps what I assume to be the biggest danger to the speakers is my mixer which has a faulty power input - sometimes it suddenly cuts out and then when the power re-connects it makes a very loud popping sound. I assume these are all a classic recipe for a blown speaker, despite my care with volume levels? What could I do to reduce the risk? Other than what I've been recommended a few times to do, which is buy a sub-woofer for the Speaker B output of my Denon to reduce the power going to the Avianos.

My Denon mixer also suffered an accident one party where a sugary drink was spilled on it while it was playing pretty loudly. I'm not 100% sure if that's still affecting the setup - I cleaned the circuitry very carefully and dried it out for a long time after which it seemed to be working perfectly. The only trouble I've had with it seems to be a regular dust build up in the volume control which sometimes causes a quiet static noise, but this pre-dates the spill. Could this be a contributing factor, or could the rattling I hear have anything to do with the mixer instead of the better-sounding speaker?

As a sort of icing on the cake, I've noticed that sometimes I get a small electric shock from touching the RCA-jack or even the metal face of my DJ mixer. Could there be an issue with how I'm powering everything? I do use a couple of extension leads, and here at the moment in Amsterdam I'm also transforming everything from UK plugs to EU sockets.As you can imagine, I'm reluctant to go ahead and replace another woofer in case this happens again, and especially if both speakers are blown, in which case I'd rather just get a new set than replace the drivers for around £90, for which I could just get a new, probably better, pair.I would normally take the whole lot into Richer Sounds but for one I'm in Amsterdam without a car, and also the last time I took the speakers in they swore they weren't broken, even though I'm 99% sure at least one had been partially damaged by that point (it has been mildly rattling for some months, but only just exacerbated to the extent I've described above).Anyway sorry for the essay, I hope someone can point me in the right direction!Much obliged!

 

[CallumMcLean1]

Update - contacted the manufacterers and it would cost me £70/€85 just for ONE replacement woofer. It's sounding more and more appealing to just buy a new pair. Thoughts?

 

[Dougal1331]

You are right: pops and bangs from careless plugging/unplugging at high volumes, will not do the speakers any favours. And the knackered mixer probably bears most blame...

Also, run the tone controls on both the amp and mixer FLAT. Hifi speakers are not designed for PA use- using EQ or bass boost via the tone knobs can kill a speaker very quickly. I guess from your post that you probably don't use them anyway.

The Avianos are lovely speakers, but as you say, there are now other options on the market. Might be worth, however, scanning the 'bay for a big pair of JBLs or Jamos for when you're partying, and a sensible set for when you're not... It would probably save you money in the long run!

Jon.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Not a hugelypowwrful amp. Suggest using the volume knob sensibly or buying proper dj/pa kit. Hope u have good neighbours

 

[CallumMcLean1]

Thank you both so much for your help!

@RobinKidderminster:

Yeah you're right, I would love a spare PA but the big obstacles are not just money but practicality in terms of moving equipment around - I'm a student and currently based in Amsterdam for a year, before returning to the UK in June. But out of curiosity for when I get back to my University town, what is a reasonably amount to expect to spend on a system for partying, and how much could a budget PA system retain its sale value? I'd probably have to sell it again after less than a year as wouldn't have the car-space to bring it home.

@Dougal1331:

Thanks for the advice! Just curious about flattened tone controls - does harmful EQing include reducing treble or bass volume? I certainly never raise either above 12 o'clock on my amp, but I usually have the bass reduced for the benefit of the apartment above. Also obviously there is EQing on the DJ mixer - while I never push any of the EQ bands past midway, I obviously do cut bass & treble for mixes. And one of the DJs at the party is fond of doubling up kick drums - as in, one per track with both tracks at mid-volume. I'm presuming that would qualify as potentially harmful for speakers? That's the last time I let anyone do that!

Is that kind of EQing (both reducing bass/treble AND doubling up bass) still harmful at lower volumes? And if, as I have been suggested to, I used a sub with the same system and cranked the bass from the bookshelf speakers DOWN, would this reduce the risk of EQing damaging anything?

An alternate set of speakers would be mighty handy for sure. But would it make much sense to run, as you say, some big Jamos or JBLs with my fairly low-power mixer? The PMA-510AE is only 45+45 watts at 8ohms.

Overtaking this whole situation is the fact that I'm now left with ONE speaker of a pair that costs too much to complete, when I could just buy new speakers or even sell up and start all over again. With this thread in mind, would you possibly be able to find the time to make a couple of suggestions about where I could go next in terms of equipment? I've already started a separate thread with no replies!

 

[davedotco]

It is quite possible to have speakers that sound good at low levels yet are robust enough to do duty as a party system, assuming we are talking about house parties that is.

If that is the case, then something like the Adm A7x and A8x models (£700-1000) will do the case very nicely indeed, bear in mind these are active speakers so will run directly off a pre-amp or mixer, no power amp required. For about £1200-1300 the Mackie HR824 is a complete animal of a party speaker, sounds good a lower levels too. Somewhat lower capabilities but still pretty impressive for the money the new cheaper Mackie MR series might do the job, £260-460 pair for the latest MK3 models.

These are studio monitor type speakers, good bass and the capability to play pretty loud, unless you are planning to play halls or similar spaces a PA system will not be needed.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

I don't know about the UK, but over here Conns will sell you a party setup for about 700 dollars and upwards, so I guess 700 quid and up from Currys (Shudder).

Failing that you could probably pick up a used "Dave Doubledecks" setup pretty cheaply on Fleabay.

 

[CallumMcLean1]

It is quite possible to have speakers that sound good at low levels yet are robust enough to do duty as a party system, assuming we are talking about house parties that is.

Thanks Dave for your advice. I hadn't considered active speakers at all actually, it seems to open up a whole new can of worms in my head!! Without delving too deeply into the passives vs actives debate, would you be able to briefly sum up any potential drawbacks to opting for active over separates with a standalone amp?

Also unfortunately my budget is just no way extending to more than maybe MAX £400 (≈$650) for the whole system, and that's after selling my Denon and a couple of other bits. Where do subs fit into this equation if we're using active speakers? Or do you not think I'd really need one?

I don't know about the UK, but over here Conns will sell you a party setup for about 700 dollars and upwards, so I guess 700 quid and up from Currys (Shudder).

Failing that you could probably pick up a used "Dave Doubledecks" setup pretty cheaply on Fleabay.

I'm afraid you lost me at "dave doubledecks" Benedict!! Again, not gonna be able to spend anything like £700. Also my major concern with investing that much in party equipment is, obviously, risk of damage, and subsequent risk of me being very annoyed if some pisshead spills beer on my shiny new gear.

Thanks all.

 

[davedotco]

It is quite possible to have speakers that sound good at low levels yet are robust enough to do duty as a party system, assuming we are talking about house parties that is.

Thanks Dave for your advice. I hadn't considered active speakers at all actually, it seems to open up a whole new can of worms in my head!! Without delving too deeply into the passives vs actives debate, would you be able to briefly sum up any potential drawbacks to opting for active over separates with a standalone amp?

Also unfortunately my budget is just no way extending to more than maybe MAX £400 (≈$650) for the whole system, and that's after selling my Denon and a couple of other bits. Where do subs fit into this equation if we're using active speakers? Or do you not think I'd really need one?

Budget is tight, so you are going to have to make some tough decisions. Best bet I think will be a pair of Mackie MR8, the new Mk3 version is just coming out and you might be able to pick up a pair of Mk2s for around £350.

The big 8 inch bass driver and a total of 150 watts per speaker will give you the biggest possible sound for the budget, hard to see past them for that sort of money, a sub will only be needed for electronica with really deep bass, most everything else should be fine.

The value for money is the obvious attraction, a pair of pretty robust, biggish, standmount speakers and 150 watts per channel, hard to match with normal passive hi-fi. Downside is that it is all integrated, if you want to change anything you have to sell and start again, low 'bling' factor too, if that is important.

They should, with reasonable care, be able to handle any house party you throw at them, keep them as a party only system if you find you have money to spend on 'real' hi-fi. You will not regret it, you will get invited to lts of parties....... :dance:

 

[CallumMcLean1]

The big 8 inch bass driver and a total of 150 watts per speaker will give you the biggest possible sound for the budget, hard to see past them for that sort of money, a sub will only be needed for electronica with really deep bass, most everything else should be fine.

The value for money is the obvious attraction, a pair of pretty robust, biggish, standmount speakers and 150 watts per channel, hard to match with normal passive hi-fi. Downside is that it is all integrated, if you want to change anything you have to sell and start again, low 'bling' factor too, if that is important.

They should, with reasonable care, be able to handle any house party you throw at them, keep them as a party only system if you find you have money to spend on 'real' hi-fi. You will not regret it, you will get invited to lts of parties....... :dance:

Thanks again for some solid advice Dave! I'll definitely look into these, there are singles going for £160 at the moment - definitely affordable if I consider selling up the rest of my stuff. I might even consider keeping my mixer and ONE speaker (haha) and keep an eye out for cheap passives as you say (there's a pair of used Monitor Audio Radius 90s going for £60 right now!!). Although I would almost certainly want to use the Mackies for mixing myself. Do you know how they sound at low volume? Ideally I'd want to be able to use them instead of my current hi-fi for general listening. Also how adjustable is the EQ, and can you reduce the sub? Obviously my neighbours wouldn't be too happy with me if I was rattling the ceiling 12hrs a day.

Also, you do mention 'electronica with really deep bass'. That kind of sounds like MOST of my music haha, especially what I'd be DJing. UK Bass type music basically, sub-alicious.

 

[davedotco]

The big 8 inch bass driver and a total of 150 watts per speaker will give you the biggest possible sound for the budget, hard to see past them for that sort of money, a sub will only be needed for electronica with really deep bass, most everything else should be fine.

The value for money is the obvious attraction, a pair of pretty robust, biggish, standmount speakers and 150 watts per channel, hard to match with normal passive hi-fi. Downside is that it is all integrated, if you want to change anything you have to sell and start again, low 'bling' factor too, if that is important.

They should, with reasonable care, be able to handle any house party you throw at them, keep them as a party only system if you find you have money to spend on 'real' hi-fi. You will not regret it, you will get invited to lts of parties....... :dance:

Thanks again for some solid advice Dave! I'll definitely look into these, there are singles going for £160 at the moment - definitely affordable if I consider selling up the rest of my stuff. I might even consider keeping my mixer and ONE speaker (haha) and keep an eye out for cheap passives as you say (there's a pair of used Monitor Audio Radius 90s going for £60 right now!!). Although I would almost certainly want to use the Mackies for mixing myself. Do you know how they sound at low volume? Ideally I'd want to be able to use them instead of my current hi-fi for general listening. Also how adjustable is the EQ, and can you reduce the sub? Obviously my neighbours wouldn't be too happy with me if I was rattling the ceiling 12hrs a day.

Also, you do mention 'electronica with really deep bass'. That kind of sounds like MOST of my music haha, especially what I'd be DJing. UK Bass type music basically, sub-alicious.

These are home studio monitors in what I would call the american style, loud, oddles of bass and very dynamic, downside is that they are not the most refined, but that said, not at all bad.

My favourite Presonus Eris 8 (£398pr) is probably a better all round speaker, more refined in pretty much all respects but just maybe a little less punchy, it is though a bit more expensive. That said it has a better range of controls, including bass filters which the Mackie does not, which should allow for better setup and is definitely clearer and more articulate at lower levels.

Bass performance is always an issue, I have no interest in modern 'bass driven' music of any kind so find outbut below around 50-60hz to be largely irrelevant though in general terms I find speakers with solid, punchy bass in the 60-250hz region to be pretty convincing. Most modern music is produced in the knowledge that it is rarely going to get played on systems with trully deep clean bass so is mixed to sound pretty convincing on regular systems, most of which are far less capable than the options discussed above.

The best solution is to get yourself down to a local music shop that does a bit of redording gear, and get them to play you one of the cheaper monitors that they have, say around £300-500 pair with an 8 inch bass driver.