Biamping ONKYO875 and MA RS6s

[admin_exported]

Hi,

Having now lived with the ONKYO for a month or so even my highly unattuned ears can detect just how much of an unmusical child it is.

What I 'm not sure is if this is being caused by the Biamping of the Speakers (using the rear 7.1 channels). In pure audio mode music sounds low and slightly restricted and I wondered if this is because in this mode the "surround" element of the Receiver is not being used so therefore only half of the drivers on the speakers?

Would I be better off just biting the bullet and getting a more musical amp and biamping the two and if so can some one explain in words of one syllabal how this works and what benefits would be achieved? Would the Music Amp run the fronts in total and if so would I lose any of the features the Onkyo provides?

Lots of questions I know but I have the oppurtunity to buy an Arcam Amp and CD Player (FMJ 32 and 36) for a good price and the answers may just seal the deal.

Best regards

Aeis

 

[Anonymous]

I would definitely think about getting a decent stereo amp if musicality is your aim. Whilst the Onkyo is relatively decent for a receiver at playing music it is poor compared to a good £2-300 stereo amp.

Wouldn't bother with bi-amping though, leave it to the dedicated stereo amp.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for that; my RS6 are the fronts from my home cinema system so will need to be either Biamped or connected some other way so I get surround sound when using the ONKYO.

Is there any way to achieve this without Biamping with ONKYO?

 

[Anonymous]

Yes you can connect your Onkyo's front channel pre-outs to any of the 2 channel amps inputs via RCA. Don't use the Onkyo's bridged 'bi-amping' when doing this (or anything for that matter) it will not improve the sound and only add complication.

Then connect your cd player to the stereo amp for best results. Some people will connect their sources to the receiver so the stereo amps volume can be left at the same setting all the time, however this method sounds notably worse. One solution to this Naim amps (that I know of) is Naim amps which have a setting which effectively turns them into power amps when on the AV setting and integrated using everything else. (Sorry if that's confusing, but you'll get there!)

Keep in mind what the Onkyo does is not bi-amping. There was a great explanation of bi-amping on the forums a while back, do a search for a full explanation.

 

[Andrew Everard]

What the Onkyo does is exactly biamping: it reassigns the two rear surround channels so they are carrying the same signal as the front left/right channels, so each element of the speaker is driven separately. Or at least it does if the biamp mode is chosen in the menus.

In bridged mode it uses those extra channels in association with the front channels to give a push-pull effect, just like any bridged amplifier.

 

[Anonymous]

OK I'll retreat on the science of that one, but I hold (in my experience) the sonic difference with a bi-amped receiver is zero, whilst a more conventional (2 mono) set up is well worth a large outlay of cash.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Again we'll have to agree to differ on that one.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew,

Bi-amping mode is switched on in the Onkyo's settings. Do you know if in Pure Audio Mode it continues to use the rear two channels thus running all drivers or does it default back to just the front outputs?

 

[Andrew Everard]

No, using Pure Audio mode should have no effect on biamping or bridged operation

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Andrew.

Guess there's no point in buying the Arcam then as it would appear to give little or no benefit if the ONKYO is already Bi-amping the speakers.

Onk really isn't that great musically (as you have said many, many times) I just do not want to have two sets of main speakers; thought that Biamping the Arcam and Onkyo might have been the answer.

 

[Anonymous]

No, sorry you missed the point during the discussion. There is every reason to get the Arcam, it will make a huge difference. You do not need to bi-amp the Onkyo, nor have two sets of speakers. The discussion with Andrew was not really related to your question, more to the logic of it.

Take a look in your Onkyo instructions, find the preouts for the front channels... then follow my instructions above. No complicated bi-amping involved.

 

[Andrew Everard]

While I'd agree that a purist stereo amp used in concert with the 875 might be a workable solution, I have to take issue with the Onkyo not being musical - I use it a lot for SACD multichannel, and find it very enjoyable.

And let's not get too hung up on the idea that the Onkyo's bridged operation or biamping are in some way not really biamping or bridging - they're the real things (two different things, in fact), and can have a very noticeable effect on the sound of the receiver.

 

[Anonymous]

But do you not agree adding the Arcam would dramatically improve the quality of the audio?

 

[Andrew Everard]

It will certainly sound different, but I doubt what improvement there may be will be dramatic.

 

[Anonymous]

OK, I am certainly surprised by that response, in terms of the difference in bi-amping/non bi-amping an Onkyo, dramatic is certainly a word that could define the difference when adding the Arcam to the set up.

 

[Anonymous]

Looks to me that Andrew is saying that the Arcam would make that much difference over the ONKYO so me thinks I'll save my cash and possibly use it to upgrade the CD player instead

Thanks guys

 

[Andrew Everard]

Octopo:
dramatic is certainly a word that could define the difference when adding the Arcam to the set up.

Yes, 'dramatic' may describe the difference, but as I said it may not describe any improvement.

 

[Anonymous]

Good luck! But keep an open mind about this, maybe even try it if you get chance. Everybody's (including Andrew's) opinion is different.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Octopo:Everybody's (including Andrew's) opinion is different.

No, my opinion tends to stay the same.

 

[Anonymous]

Indeed it does... but is that not a different one from that of Aeis?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Octopo:Indeed it does... but is that not a different one from that of Aeis?

Until he's tried it and reported back on his findings, who knows? One of the benefits of this job is that one gets to hear a lot more equipment than the average consumer could ever manage, and also spend a lot of time tuning and tweaking products.

I've been using the 875 for over a year now, including trying all its various amplifier modes, and am pretty convinced it's an extremely special all-round product.

 

[Anonymous]

Absolutely agreed, I mention opinions when I said about keeping an open mind, so that if he ever gets chance to test such a set up, he won't dismiss the opportunity because of what we have said. People with experience should offer advice, not instruct.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm just grateful to all you kind folks who take your time to help the like sof me feel my way through. I've decided to let the Onkyo settle in for a bit more given that both it and the Speakers are fairly new.

Andrew as an aside, can you recommend a decent CD Player that would sit well with the Onk and my Monitors? Would the Arcam CD36 or Music Fidelity X-Ray V8 be a good pairing? I listen to an ecelctic mix of music from Classical to The Prodigy

 

[Sliced Bread]

So what gives the best results...biamping or bridging?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Aeis:
Andrew as an aside, can you recommend a decent CD Player that would sit well with the Onk and my Monitors? Would the Arcam CD36 or Music Fidelity X-Ray V8 be a good pairing? I listen to an ecelctic mix of music from Classical to The Prodigy

Of those two I'd probably go for the X-Ray V8.