Better speakers or better amp?

[daveredfern]

Hi all,

I am looking to spend around £1200 (although could stretch a bit) for an amp and speakers.

I previously posted about some b&w 685 and b&w cm1 s2 http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/bw-685-vs-cm1-various-amps.

I've since been looking and noticed I could probably go with the b&w cm5 or the kef lS50, which are obviously more expensive.

My question is should I invest more in speakers or the amp? E.g. is a kef lS50 with a Pioneer A50 a better option over b&w cm1 s2 with rotel ra-12.

The Pioneer a50 seems a great deal and has a lot of power, good for both the kef and b&w speakers. Is it any good?

Thanks again!

Dave.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Hi all,

I am looking to spend around £1200 (although could stretch a bit) for an amp and speakers.

I previously posted about some b&w 685 and b&w cm1 s2 http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/bw-685-vs-cm1-various-amps.

I've since been looking and noticed I could probably go with the b&w cm5 or the kef lS50, which are obviously more expensive.

My question is should I invest more in speakers or the amp? E.g. is a kef lS50 with a Pioneer A50 a better option over b&w cm1 s2 with rotel ra-12.

The Pioneer a50 seems a great deal and has a lot of power, good for both the kef and b&w speakers. Is it any good?

Thanks again!

Dave.

Half on here will tell you speakers, the other half will tell you amp!

My personal opinion is to get the most neutral powerful amp you can afford then you are free to choose speakers of your taste and room size. Also if you ever want to upgrade to more expensive speakers in the future with a more demanding load, you can this more easy with a powerful amp.

 

[TrevC]

Hi all,

I am looking to spend around £1200 (although could stretch a bit) for an amp and speakers.

I previously posted about some b&w 685 and b&w cm1 s2 http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/bw-685-vs-cm1-various-amps.

I've since been looking and noticed I could probably go with the b&w cm5 or the kef lS50, which are obviously more expensive.

My question is should I invest more in speakers or the amp? E.g. is a kef lS50 with a Pioneer A50 a better option over b&w cm1 s2 with rotel ra-12.

The Pioneer a50 seems a great deal and has a lot of power, good for both the kef and b&w speakers. Is it any good?

Thanks again!

Dave.

Half on here will tell you speakers, the other half will tell you amp!

My personal opinion is to get the most neutral powerful amp you can afford then you are free to choose speakers of your taste.

Luckily most amplifiers are neutral and meet their spec, because nobody tests any of them properly any more.

 

[DocG]

Hi Dave,

The LS50s are great speakers, but they are rather demanding for the amp that drives them. I'm not sure the A50 is up to it (65wpc/8 Ohm and 90 wpc/4 Ohm). A less capable amplifier can make them sound all wrong.

So be sure to audition the combo, at your usual listening levels, if you consider that option...

 

[daveredfern]

Probably going to sound niave but...

What you're saying is that as long as the power is right, choosing between a pioneer a50 or an arcam a19 makes a less difference than the choice between b&w 685, cm1, cm5 or kef LS50.

Or... The difference between a £500 or £700 amp is smaller than the difference between a £500 and £700 pair of speakers?

Thanks!

 

[daveredfern]

The speakers say the amplifier requirements are 25w to 100w. The Pioneer is 65w. Should I generally be aiming for the upper end of the requirements when looking at amps?

Thanks!

 

[DocG]

The speakers say the amplifier requirements are 25w to 100w. The Pioneer is 65w. Should I generally be aiming for the upper end of the requirements when looking at amps?

Thanks!

The spec sheet also says they have a sensitivity of 85 and (more importantly) a minimum impedance of 3.2. The latter means your amp must produce a lot of current to keep a stable voltage.

So with LS50s, an amp with 35 wpc/8 Ohm -- 70 wpc/4 Ohm -- 140 wpc/2 Ohm will do great, whereas one with 100/8 -- 120/4 -- 130/2 will make them sound flat and boomy.

If this all sounds too technical: just use your ears!

 

[rainsoothe]

Probably going to sound niave but...

What you're saying is that as long as the power is right, choosing between a pioneer a50 or an arcam a19 makes a less difference than the choice between b&w 685, cm1, cm5 or kef LS50.

Or... The difference between a £500 or £700 amp is smaller than the difference between a £500 and £700 pair of speakers?

Thanks!

Imo the differences are just as important, and I would go for a relatively balanced setup - the RA12 + B&W. Or, as I said in the previous thread, try to test the B&Ws with Nait 5si as well, it might be right down your alley if you found the Arcam A19 boring/veiled.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Both amp and speakers are important so best getting a demo on the amp + speakers that your interested in so they both work nicely together just make sure the amp that you choose can manage the speakers ok but in a nut shell 50/50 I would say with your budget

 

[pyrrhon]

Hi all,

I am looking to spend around £1200 (although could stretch a bit) for an amp and speakers.

I previously posted about some b&w 685 and b&w cm1 s2 http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/bw-685-vs-cm1-various-amps.

I've since been looking and noticed I could probably go with the b&w cm5 or the kef lS50, which are obviously more expensive.

My question is should I invest more in speakers or the amp? E.g. is a kef lS50 with a Pioneer A50 a better option over b&w cm1 s2 with rotel ra-12.

The Pioneer a50 seems a great deal and has a lot of power, good for both the kef and b&w speakers. Is it any good?

Thanks again!

Dave.

Stay on used market till you know what you like. Be aware that most shop demo are optimal : good room, source, cable etc.. I'd say that a vendor will try to hide problems, for exemple he can avoid bass light tracks when speaker lack bass, he can skip harsher recording on agressive speakers, he can play louder to mask a speaker that's bad at low volume. Most shop will try to impress but at home the truth will come. That's why we always recomanded a home demo.

 

[MajorFubar]

I haven't read through all the responses but anyone who's told you it's all about balance and there's no straightforward answer is feeding you a believable rendition of the truth, though exactly how you should split the budget is open to debate. I think unless you've got a substandard amp, doubling the price of your speakers gives you a better return for your money than doubling the cost of your amp. But that's my personal opinion not provable fact, and I respect that others might disagree.

(strange how we get two similar threads within days of each other...)

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I'm in the camp of focus on the amp - speakers secondary.

The reasoning - a quality amp will drive 'budget' speakers way beyond their price tag.

In that for example a Roksan k3 will make a pair of bronze 2 (you can add budget speaker of choice) sound much better than they would on the end of a rotel ra11.

It will also stand upgrades.

Going the other way say some Spendor A6's with a Rotel ra11 will leave you dissatisfied.

I'd always recommend building a set from the front end.

The speakers being the last thing to spend big on.

Amp and source the priority.

 

[Frank Harvey]

As long as you already have a quality source, the speakers you end up with can only sound as good as the accompanying amplifier will allow them. The difference between a good speaker and a not so good one is normally down to one being driven and controlled properly.

Paper specs will tell you a bit of what you need to know, but nothing can replace a listening session and comparing a few with your own ears. The tonal balance of speakers varies quite a lot, not so much with electronics, so the biggest perceivable difference will usually be with the speakers for most listeners. But what you should be listening out for is detail retrieval, soundstage, transparency, and whether you just enjoy the whole thing.

The best pair of speakers in the world isn't the best pair of speakers in the world if the accompanying amplifier isn't doing its job properly.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Stay on used market till you know what you like. Be aware that most shop demo are optimal : good room, source, cable etc.. I'd say that a vendor will try to hide problems, for exemple he can avoid bass light tracks when speaker lack bass, he can skip harsher recording on agressive speakers, he can play louder to mask a speaker that's bad at low volume. Most shop will try to impress but at home the truth will come. That's why we always recomanded a home demo.

A good dealer will have recommended you bring in music you are familiar with and normally listen to, negating the above. I can't remember the last time I asked someone to bring in some bassy music because the speakers he's coming to listen to sound a bit bass light in our rooms... (ie, I haven't)

 

[Blacksabbath25]

agree there is no point in having top of the range speakers if you just going to put a £200 amp with them whats the point ! a good power supply on an amp goes a long way in controling good speakers

 

[TrevC]

agree there is no point in having top of the range speakers if you just going to put a £200 amp with them whats the point ! a good power supply on an amp goes a long way in controling good speakers

Why do you agree? It's how competent the amplifier is, cost has little to do with it. Electronics is cheap, a good loudspeaker can't be made cheaply.

 

[Frank Harvey]

It's how competent the amplifier is

It is how competent the amplifier is in relation to the needs of the speaker...

 

[Blacksabbath25]

agree there is no point in having top of the range speakers if you just going to put a £200 amp with them whats the point ! a good power supply on an amp goes a long way in controling good speakers

Why do you agree? It's how competent the amplifier is, cost has little to do with it. Electronics is cheap, a good loudspeaker can't be made cheaply.

yes its about how competent the amplifler is but some budget amps do not have very big power supplys so would have trouble with some speakers dipping on the lows and high's so no point in spending say £1000 on speakers if the amp is not up to it and when you spend good money on a amp & speakers you would understand why as everything is controled better your hear better music separation , better bass control , better treble bigger sound stage it all sounds real well it does to me budget good to a point but no point putting a mini engine in a lorry is there

 

[TrevC]

agree there is no point in having top of the range speakers if you just going to put a £200 amp with them whats the point ! a good power supply on an amp goes a long way in controling good speakers

Why do you agree? It's how competent the amplifier is, cost has little to do with it. Electronics is cheap, a good loudspeaker can't be made cheaply.

yes its about how competent the amplifler is but some budget amps do not have very big power supplys so would have trouble with some speakers dipping on the lows and high's so no point in spending say £1000 on speakers if the amp is not up to it and when you spend good money on a amp & speakers you would understand why as everything is controled better your hear better music separation , better bass control , better treble bigger sound stage it all sounds real well it does to me budget good to a point but no point putting a mini engine in a lorry is there

Load of waffle. If they had inadequate power supplies they wouldn't meet the spec for power output.

 

[TrevC]

It's how competent the amplifier is

It is how competent the amplifier is in relation to the needs of the speaker...

The price of the amplifier doesn't tell you that. So what do you think does?

 

[Vladimir]

KEF LS50 and Yamaha RN500.

You get 80Wpc in 8 ohms with the Yamaha and it also is a streamer so you can use that facility as it gets more and more popular.

 

[manicm]

To the OP, why not try the RA-12 and LS50? If you like to rock out the Yamaha R-N500 may not be to your taste. But whatever you do, take time to audition.

 

[Vladimir]

Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder characterized by uncontrollable, unwanted thoughts and repetitive, ritualized behaviors* you feel compelled to perform.

*Including stalking Vlad and countering all his posts.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The price of the amplifier doesn't tell you that. So what do you think does?

I didn't mention any prices.

 

[tonky]

The old adage - it takes one to know one.

tonky