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best stand mount speakers at low volume

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BigH

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Dec 29, 2012
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CnoEvil said:
Romulus said:
Midrange and Treble?
IMO. A small sub, set correctly can will make the sound "richer", as it's the bass that gets "lost" at low volume (but I'm happy to be proved wrong). I know some treble also gets "lost", but it may be less of an issue.

--------------------------------

With the correct isolation from the likes of Auralex, the sound going through to neighbours at low volumes can be kept to a minimum.
Its not just bass that gets lost at low volume.
 

Al ears

Moderator
CnoEvil said:
Al ears said:
CnoEvil said:
The outburst was directect at those that think subs cure everything.
My default position is that Subs usually do more harm than good in a 2 channel situation...but can help in certain situations if sensitively set up. I believe a case can be made in this scenario, but as you say, more info is needed eg. How much does the OP like the ATCs...after all he did choose them...possibly blind?
A lot of people do go on reviews only never trying them in all situations. More fool them. Wrong speakers are difficult to correct.
 

S83 Trike

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Jul 6, 2015
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Mark Rose-Smith said:
I have read that the atc's do like a bit of volume to get going,add to that,their inefficiency and you maybe need a hefty powered amp to get the best from them.probably the reason I discounted them when I was on the hunt for some good standmounts.
140 watts of class A is enough to drive the ATC's. A house change and although the speakers sound fantastic at realistic levels, the new next door neighbour can also hear my music.

When I turn down the volume, they lose all the body from the music, the music sounds thin. When I bought them sound levels were never an issue and I remember being informed at audtion tjey like some muscle amp and do sound the best turned up. That is spot on, circumstances have now changed and unfortunately ATC sound too thin at low level listening. So I now need to look at a great sounding speaker that sounds good at low sound levels.
 

ChrisIRL

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Apr 12, 2014
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S83 Trike said:
Mark Rose-Smith said:
I have read that the atc's do like a bit of volume to get going,add to that,their inefficiency and you maybe need a hefty powered amp to get the best from them.probably the reason I discounted them when I was on the hunt for some good standmounts.
140 watts of class A is enough to drive the ATC's. A house change and although the speakers sound fantastic at realistic levels, the new next door neighbour can also hear my music.

When I turn down the volume, they lose all the body from the music, the music sounds thin. When I bought them sound levels were never an issue and I remember being informed at audtion tjey like some muscle amp and do sound the best turned up. That is spot on, circumstances have now changed and unfortunately ATC sound too thin at low level listening. So I now need to look at a great sounding speaker that sounds good at low sound levels.
Unfortunately at low volumes you're not even going to get close to an experience like the ATCs being driven by a 140 watt amp at realistic levels.
 
Feb 18, 2015
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Hi.I wasn't suggesting that your amp wasn't able to drive them,just that I heard that the atc's needed some volume cranking to get them to boogy.which you have found out obviously. Maybe give the twenty 21's an audition,they could be more up your street and within budget at some stores due to the new twenty 5's being released.lovely little things too.
 

lpv

New member
Mar 14, 2013
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S83 Trike said:
Mark Rose-Smith said:
I have read that the atc's do like a bit of volume to get going,add to that,their inefficiency and you maybe need a hefty powered amp to get the best from them.probably the reason I discounted them when I was on the hunt for some good standmounts.
140 watts of class A is enough to drive the ATC's. A house change and although the speakers sound fantastic at realistic levels, the new next door neighbour can also hear my music.

When I turn down the volume, they lose all the body from the music, the music sounds thin. When I bought them sound levels were never an issue and I remember being informed at audtion tjey like some muscle amp and do sound the best turned up. That is spot on, circumstances have now changed and unfortunately ATC sound too thin at low level listening. So I now need to look at a great sounding speaker that sounds good at low sound levels.
I think the best advice is to get the sub.. as CnoEvil said:

" A small sub, set correctly can will make the sound richer"

get BK, you'll get the ' body' you want at low levels and you'll get rid of the thin sound.. they have good return policy if you don't like it.. you're not loosing much by doing it?
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2008
1,636
83
19,770
lpv said:
S83 Trike said:
Mark Rose-Smith said:
I have read that the atc's do like a bit of volume to get going,add to that,their inefficiency and you maybe need a hefty powered amp to get the best from them.probably the reason I discounted them when I was on the hunt for some good standmounts.
140 watts of class A is enough to drive the ATC's. A house change and although the speakers sound fantastic at realistic levels, the new next door neighbour can also hear my music.

When I turn down the volume, they lose all the body from the music, the music sounds thin. When I bought them sound levels were never an issue and I remember being informed at audtion tjey like some muscle amp and do sound the best turned up. That is spot on, circumstances have now changed and unfortunately ATC sound too thin at low level listening. So I now need to look at a great sounding speaker that sounds good at low sound levels.
I think the best advice is to get the sub.. as CnoEvil said:

" A small sub, set correctly can will make the sound richer"

get BK, you'll get the ' body' you want at low levels and you'll get rid of the thin sound.. they have good return policy if you don't like it.. you're not loosing much by doing it?
I'm not point scoring but I suggested a sub or small floorstanders (hope Cno doesn't think that).
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2008
1,636
83
19,770
S83 Trike said:
Mark Rose-Smith said:
I have read that the atc's do like a bit of volume to get going,add to that,their inefficiency and you maybe need a hefty powered amp to get the best from them.probably the reason I discounted them when I was on the hunt for some good standmounts.
140 watts of class A is enough to drive the ATC's. A house change and although the speakers sound fantastic at realistic levels, the new next door neighbour can also hear my music.

When I turn down the volume, they lose all the body from the music, the music sounds thin. When I bought them sound levels were never an issue and I remember being informed at audtion tjey like some muscle amp and do sound the best turned up. That is spot on, circumstances have now changed and unfortunately ATC sound too thin at low level listening. So I now need to look at a great sounding speaker that sounds good at low sound levels.
Any good ported or vented speaker generally are better at low levels. As I mentioned in #7 you are (probably) going to lose something over the ATCs. There's no such thing as a perfect speaker.
 

Alberich

New member
Mar 15, 2016
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Romulus said:
Perhaps he should change amplification so that the ATC 11 can be properly driven, unless there are other speakers more efficient that can do a better job at low volumes, (maybe Russel K Red 50 or 100?).  
+1 for Russel K Red 50

Had these on home demo and they we're absolutely brilliant at low volume.
They're the same 85dB as your ATCs but they have a different performance when played low.
I owned the SCM11s myself and thought they were OK at low vol. But the Russell Ks were very different.

I was driving them with a Primare i22 and I'm sure you're aware Primare are notorious for having to crank the volume a little to come alive.
Not so with the Russell Ks.
All the dynamics, energy and verve that the Ks offer was still very present when played at low volume.

In the end they were a little too enthusiastic for me personally so I'd recommend auditioning them if at all possible as they're idiosyncratic to say the least.
 

S83 Trike

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Jul 6, 2015
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I will Try out a pair of pmc 21, to see if they will sound decent at low volumes.

Harbeth are another to try, both should fit in to my system without further upgrades.
 
Feb 18, 2015
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Bare in mind The twenty 21's really do need a wall behind them for a bit of bass reinforcement,they're a different speaker altogether in free space.I could not believe how different they sounded when I moved them from in front of my window to a side wall.It was like I got a new set of speakers again.for free.lol.just thought I'd let you know this incase you get a demo and the shop sites them in free space as they will be a bit underwhelming.
 

BigH

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Dec 29, 2012
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CnoEvil said:
BigH said:
Its not just bass that gets lost at low volume.
Which is why I said in the post above, "I know some treble gets lost, but it may be less of an issue." I am aware of the Fletcher Munson Curve.p>

The OP has now said his music sounds "thin" and the body of the music is lost, which a Sub would greatly help mitigate IMO.
I lived next door to someone with a sub, if you don't want to distrube the neighbours a sub is not what you want, its the bass that goes right through the wall. I would consider other options, sound proofing, headphones or even moving. I moved.

Its not just bass or treble, some speakers lose soundstage as well. A lot of systems seem to have a sweet spot, not sure if this is to do with amplifier power or passive crossovers or what.
 

BigH

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Dec 29, 2012
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Mark Rose-Smith said:
Bare in mind The twenty 21's really do need a wall behind them for a bit of bass reinforcement,they're a different speaker altogether in free space.I could not believe how different they sounded when I moved them from in front of my window to a side wall.It was like I got a new set of speakers again.for free.lol.just thought I'd let you know this incase you get a demo and the shop sites them in free space as they will be a bit underwhelming.
Bass goes straight through glass, laminated glass is better but yes moving them away from glass will make a difference.
 
Feb 18, 2015
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Yep.the speaker on it's stand just came above the wall and sat about 20-25 cm's from the window and it sucked all the bass from them,Strangely my b&w cm5's worked a treat in the same position,different types of speakers though and a fair different size.the cm5's would probably be a nightmare where I now have the pmc's sited.
 

lpv

New member
Mar 14, 2013
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BigH said:
CnoEvil said:
BigH said:
Its not just bass that gets lost at low volume.
Which is why I said in the post above, "I know some treble gets lost, but it may be less of an issue." I am aware of the Fletcher Munson Curve.p>

The OP has now said his music sounds "thin" and the body of the music is lost, which a Sub would greatly help mitigate IMO.
I lived next door to someone with a sub, if you don't want to distrube the neighbours a sub is not what you want, its the bass that goes right through the wall. I would consider other options, sound proofing, headphones or even moving. I moved.

Its not just bass or treble, some speakers lose soundstage as well. A lot of systems seem to have a sweet spot, not sure if this is to do with amplifier power or passive crossovers or what.
that must be really bad speaker design that loose bass, treble and soundstage at low volumes.
 

S83 Trike

New member
Jul 6, 2015
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Just checking the pmc out and come across their FB1 floor stander very efficient so they would take less driving so possibly suit my requirements.

Not too sure they would be too big for my 4x4 room?
 

lpv

New member
Mar 14, 2013
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S83 Trike - since you realize and experienced yourself the importance of speaker interaction with the listening room, make sure you'll try at home any speakers before typing your pin code.
 

S83 Trike

New member
Jul 6, 2015
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lpv said:
S83 Trike - since you realize and experienced yourself the importance of speaker interaction with the listening room, make sure you'll try at home any speakers before typing your pin code.
Yep, that's all well and good, but unfortunately when you change house, you end up in my predicament.
 

S83 Trike

New member
Jul 6, 2015
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S83 Trike said:
Just checking the pmc out and come across their FB1 floor stander very efficient so they would take less driving so possibly suit my requirements.

Not too sure they would be too big for my 4x4 room?
Has anybody got a pair of FB1'S, what sized room are they in?
 
Feb 18, 2015
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I haven't heard them,but I can't see the fb1's being the answer to low level listening.Although on paper they look easy to drive...they still need a good wad of current behind them....probably more so than the little 21's
 

BigH

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Dec 29, 2012
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You maybe going about this the wrong way, Floorstanders are generally easier to drive and have more bass, small standmounts at low volume will not give you what you want.
 

S83 Trike

New member
Jul 6, 2015
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BigH said:
You maybe going about this the wrong way, Floorstanders are generally easier to drive and have more bass, small standmounts at low volume will not give you what you want.
With the ATC's being inefficiency and now sounding disappointing at lower volumes. I thought having good an efficient speaker (fb1) might be the answer.

I do have a very good power amp in the 909 to drive them.

I am also wondering if placing a layer of Cork over my dividing wall might be of helping sound proofing?
 
Feb 18, 2015
58
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I used to have some monitor audio silver rs6's and tried them for low level listening and the whole house could hear the bass coming through . didn't work,at the end of the day your going to face comprises and the only way of listening at decent levels without disturbing people is a headphone set up.
 

Electro

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2011
43
2
18,545
S83 Trike said:
Just checking the pmc out and come across their FB1 floor stander very efficient so they would take less driving so possibly suit my requirements.

Not too sure they would be too big for my 4x4 room?
The FB1 is a very good suggestion, they are very easy to drive and sound balanced and musical at low levels. One of the advantages of a transmission line speaker from PMC is they are designed to sound the same at low and high levels, the frequency response remains the same at all volume levels, they just get louder or quieter.

The TB2i would be another suggestion if you want a standmount, they use the same drivers as the FB1i floorstanders but in a smaller transmission line box .

This short video explains how and why

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=683FoCDilOE
 

BigH

New member
Dec 29, 2012
97
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S83 Trike said:
BigH said:
You maybe going about this the wrong way, Floorstanders are generally easier to drive and have more bass, small standmounts at low volume will not give you what you want.
With the ATC's being inefficiency and now sounding disappointing at lower volumes. I thought having good an efficient speaker (fb1) might be the answer.

I do have a very good power amp in the 909 to drive them.

I am also wondering if placing a layer of Cork over my dividing wall might be of helping sound proofing?
It may help but I think there are more effective methods. Depends how much room you have and how much money you want to spend. Also depends on the construction of the house. My last house had suspended wooden floors, bass seems to go along them and into next door. Also we had a fireplace on the adjoining wall so sound proofing was out of the question. Building a false wall is probably the best bet, with sound insulation and air gap, will cost a bit and may not be that effective depending on construction of building. Floor covering do make a big difference, thick carpets with decent underlay will no doubt help.

It maybe worth talking to your neighbours see what the problem is, is it bass or more general volume.
 

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