AV set up & Hifi set up. 1 set of speakers. Can it work?

[Clarkey_71]

My Dad is looking to get his vinyl hifi up and runing again. It's been a while and in the meantime he has built up a tidy 5.1 AV system. I can't remember the name of the amp, but it is decent. The speakers are a very nice set of Monitor Audios.

Clearly the turntable can't be fed into the AV amp as it is digital (or can it?).

Even if it can, he would like to get his pre/power amps going.

However, he does only have the one set of floor standers and he doesn't want to utilse the full 5.1 for his hifi.

The only thing I could think of was to utilise the bi wire ports of the speaker. One from the AV amp. One from the Power amp. I presume this is possible and won't cause damage?

He asked me if there is a way from switching from one system to another but I have no idea. I think he may have to change the speaker connections every time as the AV amp is already biwired.

Any advice would be really useful as it's a shame to see such great hifi gathering dust in the attic.

Cheers.

 

[Crocodile]

If the AV amp has no phono input then he could always add a phono pre-amp. The amp will likely have a stereo mode so that only the front L&R are used.

Connecting two amps to the same speakers is fraught with the potential for a very expensive "bang" but it can be done with a switch. Have a look at this thread.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

If the AV amp has no phono input then he could always add a phono pre-amp. The amp will likely have a stereo mode so that only the front L&R are used.

Connecting two amps to the same speakers is fraught with the potential for a very expensive "bang" but it can be done with a switch. Have a look at this thread.

I think Paul is asking some thing complitly different, and i'm in the same situation!

I've connected the AV and Stereo amp at the same set of speakers, through the pre output of the AV.

Like that you can have two amps and one set of speakers.

 

[Crocodile]

I think Paul is asking some thing complitly different, and i'm in the same situation!

Even if it can, he would like to get his pre/power amps going.

Yes he can connect the power-amp to the AV pre-outs (if it has them) to drive the front L&R but he specifically says he wants to use a pre-amp as well. And while that can be done too (as discussed in the thread I linked to), it means that unless the pre-amp has an AV bypass, having to remember to reset the volume on the pre-amp each time the AV is used.

 

[DocG]

If the AV amp has no phono input then he could always add a phono pre-amp. The amp will likely have a stereo mode so that only the front L&R are used.

Connecting two amps to the same speakers is fraught with the potential for a very expensive "bang" but it can be done with a switch. Have a look at this thread.

I think Paul is asking some thing complitly different, and i'm in the same situation!

I've connected the AV and Stereo amp at the same set of speakers, through the pre output of the AV.

Like that you can have two amps and one set of speakers.

Hi Outlaw,

In your suggestion, you use the AV-amp as a pre, and add a power amp for the front speakers/stereospeakers. If Paul's dad wants a dedicated pre + power combo for his music, only sharing the speakers with his home cinema, I guess Crocodile's suggestion makes more sense.

 

[The_Lhc]

MODS!!! STICKY THREADS FER CRYING OUT LOUD!!! How many more times do we have to answer the same questions!

If the AV amp has no phono input then he could always add a phono pre-amp. The amp will likely have a stereo mode so that only the front L&R are used.

Connecting two amps to the same speakers is fraught with the potential for a very expensive "bang" but it can be done with a switch. Have a look at this thread.

I think Paul is asking some thing complitly different, and i'm in the same situation!

I've connected the AV and Stereo amp at the same set of speakers, through the pre output of the AV.

Like that you can have two amps and one set of speakers.

Hi Outlaw,

In your suggestion, you use the AV-amp as a pre, and add a power amp for the front speakers/stereospeakers. If Paul's dad wants a dedicated pre + power combo for his music, only sharing the speakers with his home cinema, I guess Crocodile's suggestion makes more sense.

You can but in that case you still have to run all your 2 channel (ie music) sources through the AV amp, which is generally what people are trying to avoid when they do this, as it's thought that part of the reason music doesn't sound good through an AV amp is due to the pre-amp stage. The typical implementation is to take the pre-outs from the AV amp into an integrated stereo amp and then plug all the stereo sources directly into stereo amp so you bypass the AV amp completely when listening to music but obviously you can't do that with just a power amp, so it's unclear how much improvement you're likely to see by doing this.

 

[The_Lhc]

My Dad is looking to get his vinyl hifi up and runing again. It's been a while and in the meantime he has built up a tidy 5.1 AV system. I can't remember the name of the amp, but it is decent. The speakers are a very nice set of Monitor Audios.

Clearly the turntable can't be fed into the AV amp as it is digital (or can it?).

Yes of course it can, the AV amp isn't digital, it might use digital processing but that doesn't mean it won't accept analogue sources.

The only thing I could think of was to utilise the bi wire ports of the speaker. One from the AV amp. One from the Power amp. I presume this is possible and won't cause damage?

Just in case this hasn't been made clear this is a monumentally BAD idea and WILL cause damage. Think about it, you're effectively wiring the outputs from two amps directly into each other, nothing but bad things will ensue from this. DON'T DO IT!

 

[DocG]

MODS!!! STICKY THREADS FER CRYING OUT LOUD!!! How many more times do we have to answer the same questions!

If the AV amp has no phono input then he could always add a phono pre-amp. The amp will likely have a stereo mode so that only the front L&R are used.

Connecting two amps to the same speakers is fraught with the potential for a very expensive "bang" but it can be done with a switch. Have a look at this thread.

I think Paul is asking some thing complitly different, and i'm in the same situation!

I've connected the AV and Stereo amp at the same set of speakers, through the pre output of the AV.

Like that you can have two amps and one set of speakers.

Hi Outlaw,

In your suggestion, you use the AV-amp as a pre, and add a power amp for the front speakers/stereospeakers. If Paul's dad wants a dedicated pre + power combo for his music, only sharing the speakers with his home cinema, I guess Crocodile's suggestion makes more sense.

You can but in that case you still have to run all your 2 channel (ie music) sources through the AV amp, which is generally what people are trying to avoid when they do this, as it's thought that part of the reason music doesn't sound good through an AV amp is due to the pre-amp stage. The typical implementation is to take the pre-outs from the AV amp into an integrated stereo amp and then plug all the stereo sources directly into stereo amp so you bypass the AV amp completely when listening to music but obviously you can't do that with just a power amp, so it's unclear how much improvement you're likely to see by doing this.

With "Crocodile's suggestion", I meant the use of a switch, only sharing the (front) speakers.

 

[Ben123]

I have an AV amp (in a 5.1 setup) and a hifi amp both fed into a beresford tc-7220 "audio router" to one set of speakers. It honestly is the only way to run 1 set of speakers off 2 amps. I wish there were other alternatives but in my extensive research couldnt find any. Theres plenty of simple switches for running lots of speakers off one amp but nothing involving multiple amps.

Ive been down the pre-outs route from the av amp into the hifi amp and was too much messing about changing the volume levels. Plus i didnt want to risk blowing my beloved b&w cm1 speakers should i accidentally leave both av and hifi volume pots on quite loud.

The only other alternative is to make sure your av amp has pre-outs and then get an integrated amp with "unity gain" which lets the av amp be the volume and ignores its own volume. The only drawback is that severely limits the list of hifi amps you can use in your setup.

Hope that helps.

 

[The_Lhc]

The only other alternative is to make sure your av amp has pre-outs and then get an integrated amp with "unity gain" which lets the av amp be the volume and ignores its own volume. The only drawback is that severely limits the list of hifi amps you can use in your setup.

It doesn't, it's now VERY common for integrated stereo amps to feature a unity gain input. I'd almost go as far as saying it's unusual for them not to.

 

[Ben123]

Well it basically rules out the 2nd hand amp market which i would say is a large market. When i looked into brand new unity gain amps about 8 months ago i auditioned the marantz pearl lite (its about £700 at the moment) but preferred my current amp and so did the demo guy. I looked at the naim nait 5i and the musical fidelity m3i but both seemed a lot of money (nearing the 1k mark) for one feature that i needed (unity gain). Hence why i've now got an audio switcher meaning i retain money in my wallet and still have ultimate flexibility to buy any amp i want.

 

[The_Lhc]

Well it basically rules out the 2nd hand amp market which i would say is a large market. When i looked into brand new unity gain amps about 8 months ago i auditioned the marantz pearl lite (its about £700 at the moment) but preferred my current amp and so did the demo guy. I looked at the naim nait 5i and the musical fidelity m3i but both seemed a lot of money (nearing the 1k mark) for one feature that i needed (unity gain). Hence why i've now got an audio switcher meaning i retain money in my wallet and still have ultimate flexibility to buy any amp i want.

There are loads of amps at less than £700 that offer that feature (it won't necessarily be called unity gain though, every manufacturer seems to have a different name for it), guess it depends on what you're looking to spend and the quality of the rest of your kit.

 

[Ben K.]

To share my experience

I had a similar problem a while back. I was running monitor audio br2 av setup through Yamaha rxv2065. For cinema it was great but not for music IMO. I went down the route of adding a roter power amp which did improve things but not by enough to please me or justify the price. I then tried connecting an arcam a75 integrated to the Yamaha front l and r pre outs and used the av bypass for cinema and just the arcam and cd player for music. It sounded much better now for music and cinema was not noticeably any different.

My advice is not to try the power amp route and instead get an integrated with 'unity gain' 'ht bypass' 'av direct' etc they all mean the same. Basically your integrated stays at a fixed volume level when this is engaged and your av receiver takes over the volume control.

Hope this helps someone

 

[Ben123]

I guess it boils down to 2 main scenarios (no doubt there are more ). If you have an AV system and are building a hifi system along side it, make sure you get a hifi amp with unity gain/ht bypass.

If you already have an AV and a Hifi system (and dont want to sell/upgrade like me) a switch would be the most cost effective and least hassle option.

From how i've read the OPs post it seem his dad already has the hifi system as he mentions it is gathering dust in the attic. Up to the OP though.

Also, thanks Ben K for the heads up on the power amps, i've got very close to pulling the trigger on some marantz monoblocks for my marantz av. I've got enough clutter as it is !

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

MODS!!! STICKY THREADS FER CRYING OUT LOUD!!! How many more times do we have to answer the same questions!

If the AV amp has no phono input then he could always add a phono pre-amp. The amp will likely have a stereo mode so that only the front L&R are used.

Connecting two amps to the same speakers is fraught with the potential for a very expensive "bang" but it can be done with a switch. Have a look at this thread.

I think Paul is asking some thing complitly different, and i'm in the same situation!

I've connected the AV and Stereo amp at the same set of speakers, through the pre output of the AV.

Like that you can have two amps and one set of speakers.

Hi Outlaw,

In your suggestion, you use the AV-amp as a pre, and add a power amp for the front speakers/stereospeakers. If Paul's dad wants a dedicated pre + power combo for his music, only sharing the speakers with his home cinema, I guess Crocodile's suggestion makes more sense.

You can but in that case you still have to run all your 2 channel (ie music) sources through the AV amp, which is generally what people are trying to avoid when they do this, as it's thought that part of the reason music doesn't sound good through an AV amp is due to the pre-amp stage. The typical implementation is to take the pre-outs from the AV amp into an integrated stereo amp and then plug all the stereo sources directly into stereo amp so you bypass the AV amp completely when listening to music but obviously you can't do that with just a power amp, so it's unclear how much improvement you're likely to see by doing this.

That's how i have my set up, the SBT is connected to rega DAC and the DAC connected to the NAD.

Although the NAD has not AV passthrough, but in the Yamaha when I select the bypass function i have no issues with the volume control because NAD work as power amp..

my problem is that the Rega DAC has no remote.

I've everything that has audio exit connected to Rega DAC (and the DAC connected to NAD), SBT, tv box and nintendo.

I only turn the AV on when i want to watch movie.

 

[Clarkey_71]

Thanks all for your valuable comments.

I have spoken to my dad again and he thinks his amp is a Pioneer SC LX81 (it's currently boxed away).

His hifi set up is LP12, Audio Research LS2 + PH1 combo and a Chord electronics power amp. This system hasn't been used in a while and in the meantime he had started to get a 5.1 system together. Now he is moving house and the opportunity to get his hifi up and running again has come up, hence the question. Hopefully we can get something sorted using his existing Monitor Audios where he can use both the 5.1 set up and his vinyl system without causing damage to either. The Beresford audio router option looks to be about the best solution and it gets a decent write up too.