AV Pre and power amp options?

[Sutch71]

Hi there,

I currently use my Yamaha RXA3010 to drive my centre and surround speakers and use the pre-out section to hook into my XAS-100's to power my front speakers. It means that I can have a decent home cinema without compromising my hi fi set up.

I am looking to gain improvements over the sound field and dynamics and wondered about of upgrading my musical fidelity XAS-100 to the M6 power amp and then using one of my XAS-100 to power my centre speaker and the other XAS-100 to power the surround speakers leaving my Yamaha 3010 to act as a pre-amp. at a later date I would possibly replace this with a higher end dedicated pre-amp/[processer.

The other option is to look at a different pre and power something like the new Arcam or Bryston.

Does anybody have any experience of a set up similar to this or using seperate amps to power their home cinema. Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[ellisdj]

I personally think you should be looking to do it properly with the speakers you have.

They need the best quality premap and power and room acoustics to get anythign like the best from them

I have a similar system speaker wise and they are getting better and better the better my system, my room and then my room acousitcs and setup skills.

dont waste money in the middle - save to buy the ultimate solution now.

Why not get a full quality 5 channel power amp - I dont know your budget but there is an ex display Bryston 9BSST2 being sold on ebay for £5k.

That will set you up to get a proper processor down the line. You want all channels sounding the same, mixing amps will be difficult to do this.

The Bryston Power amps are a different class, I wanted one for years and its every bit as good I hoped it would be.

Its is loving the Isotek Titan I have powering it - seeing you have other isotek products

 

[Leeps]

I personally think you should be looking to do it properly with the speakers you have.

They need the best quality premap and power and room acoustics to get anythign like the best from them

I have a similar system speaker wise and they are getting better and better the better my system, my room and then my room acousitcs and setup skills.

dont waste money in the middle - save to buy the ultimate solution now.

Why not get a full quality 5 channel power amp - I dont know your budget but there is an ex display Bryston 9BSST2 being sold on ebay for £5k.

That will set you up to get a proper processor down the line. You want all channels sounding the same, mixing amps will be difficult to do this.

The Bryston Power amps are a different class, I wanted one for years and its every bit as good I hoped it would be.

Its is loving the Isotek Titan I have powering it - seeing you have other isotek products

This is an interesting comment. I appreciate that my system's a fair way down the food chain, but this is something I wondered about if I ever introduced a stereo integrated to run the main left & right channels from the pre-outs of my Pioneer; particularly voice-matching these channels with the centre channel (particularly as I'd still often want to engage all available channels for music).

I suppose another option would be to run all channels through the AV receiver, use a stereo integrated for the left & right channels and switch duties with a Beresford amp switch? But this starts getting a bit cable-messy!

(btw, don't want to hijack the OP's thread. Just a quick thought).

 

[ellisdj]

I am always bewildered when people use an av receiver as a preamp.

I the preamp stage will hinder any benefit gained - better to buy the best quality av amp and look at setting it up better.

Or spend the extra on something of more benefit - GIK acoustic panels for example

 

[Sutch71]

Thanks for the comments Ellis. If you read my original thread the option is to use my Yamaha as a temporary pre-amp until i find the righ pre-amp to power the amps. I am interested in listening to the Bryston and Primare, the problem with the Bryston on E-bay is I actually need a 7 channel to allow bi-amp on my front speakers and im in debate as to whether a dedicated left and right mono block with same manufacturer for the centre and rears will give me major gains (hence the thoughts on using the MF M6).

Did you see a major improvement with the isotek and are you running everything through it or just source? I have heard stories of some conditioners robbing dynamics from amplifiers.

 

[Sutch71]

Its long been argued that to get a truly good hi fi and good AV your best option is to use your pre-outs and have a dedicated 2 channel amp. To be honest other than the additional grunt you really wouldnt know that you are listening to two different amplifiers on my set up. Bear in mind that 60% of movie soundtrack comes from the front and most dialogue is centred. Also most amps will employ some level of equalisation to match the speakers (although that is never the best option)

I saw a massive uplift when I moved from an integrated 2 channel amp to a pre-amp and power amp and even better improvements when I added a second power amp. I am keen to see if those improvements will manifest the same in an AV environment.

 

[CnoEvil]

The other option is to look at a different pre and power something like the new Arcam or Bryston.

I would strongly advise you to listen the the Arcam AV950 + P777.

 

[Sutch71]

I should have mentioned Arcam as I am really keen to hear this combo. Have you heard the stereo reproduction Cno? Is it as good as a dedicated monoblock amp?

 

[Leeps]

I am always bewildered when people use an av receiver as a preamp.

I the preamp stage will hinder any benefit gained - better to buy the best quality av amp and look at setting it up better.

Or spend the extra on something of more benefit - GIK acoustic panels for example

I felt that my previous post probably needed clarifying so you know what I was aiming at.

I'm perfectly happy with the surround performance of my system, so I have no particular need to improve it; either for movies, Bluray Audio or Extended Stereo which I enjoy with certain genres of music.

What I was hoping to achieve was retaining the surround quality of my system as it stands with the option of playing stereo sources direct from source to a separate stereo integrated. Most jazz, funk and electronica sound wonderful to me as my system is now, but with about 10% of the music I listen to, I just know I could achieve that extra I'm looking for by using a stereo integrated. I wouldn't be using the preouts in this situation - only when I want to use all channels.

I was just concerned that when using my AV receiver for surround duties (movies or music), that the introduction of the stereo integrated from the pre-outs might just upset the voicing across each channel, which at the moment matches very well because the same amp is driving all channels.

Of course, the other option is just to keep everything completely separate, but introducing yet another set of speakers can make the lounge look more and more like a Hifi Demonstration room instead of a living space.

 

[CnoEvil]

I should have mentioned Arcam as I am really keen to hear this combo. Have you heard the stereo reproduction Cno? Is it as good as a dedicated monoblock amp?

I have heard the 777 with the previous Pre/Pro, and it was really very good with 2 channel, but not good enough to justify the premium over the AVR600.

My AVR600 saw off (for my taste), some good 2 channel amps (Moon i7, Coda CSi, MF M6i), and it took the AMS35i to show it a clean pair of heels.

By all accounts, the new AV950 is a seriously good piece of kit and is a big upgrade. The P777 has been left alone, as Arcam don't believe it can be improved for the money.

IMO. There will be Monoblocks that may sound better, but they will have to be seriously good (expensive). I suspect that this will meet your needs, but don't take my word for it. Remember, the quality of the Pre will make or break the system for 2 channel, and that is where Arcam have put the work in with the 950.

 

[ellisdj]

You wouldnt need to biamp or biwire the speakers from a proper amp such as the 9bsst2.

Look at the design its the best designed amp i have seen

Each channel is individual - each channel has its own torodial transformer so there is no cross contamination from the other channels

The primare is supposed to be good.- think its class d - bryston true class A. I think MA will be better class A.

Just use links between the binding posts same as your speaker wire

This same for other good quality power amps - although not that many to choose from of top quality