Audiophiles telling me subs suck. Because real stereo is 2 speakers. True or false?

[skutters]

Townshend super tweeters next then??

Well as it turns out I am selling my little P3's and going to get a larger pair of speakers after having a pair of Dynaudio special 40's to try for a few days the difference was massive got to audition a few more yet but very tempted by the special 40's.

 

[manicm]

(1) Are Subwoofers Important in 2 Channel HiFi Audio? The REL S/510. - YouTube

 

[SeattleChris]

Integrating subs can certainly be a challenge. My dual SVS SB-1000 pros are in a small office, and the bass is garbage anywhere but the one place it matters...the "sweet spot" where I sit (where the bass is truly magical). Even with my low pass starting at 80hz the dual subs are invisible. I've also come to really appreciate the parametric equalizer and many other settings in the SVS app to fine tune things.

 

[SteveR750]

There is nothing un-audiophile about adding a sub, though who wants to be labelled as an auiophile anyway! The challenge with adding a sub is to set it up to work with your stereo speakers, rather than against. That is not an easy task to by trial and error and using your ears - this is where a room measurement and correction system is really valuable.

 

[AJM1981]

I have two stereo setups with a sub each. From a bit of experience in the production world and as a listener I would like to make a pros and cons list. I think it might help making a choice since a lot is in the gray area of decission making in personal preference cases.

Why to purchase a sub
1) a little extra reach at the bottom edge. It makes bookshelf speakers sound like there are floorstanders.
2. Some music utilizes a subwoofer.
3. Great addition for Jazz, in the sense of being there.
4. Atmospheric movie effects.

I use them a little below the bass extension, to a point that when you turn on the sub there is slightly more presence. But you don't really notice that there is a sub if you don't know there is one. With the right combo in volume, and bass extension point it will do well allround.

against
1)Don't only do it for the explosions in movies. About 90% of movies and series focus on dialogue, so a good midrange coverage is by far more important than deep bass.
2) Also keep it in mind that when your room conditions are ok and you have found the ideal setting for a reproduction of that typical boomy cinema sound, it might be totally off for music.
3)The versatility of a sub is both pro and con at the same time. Dialing up the sub's volume for one track to enhance the atmosphere might be a bad idea for the next track. The weighed settings for a little extra support are usually preferable.
4)Don't really do it for music in general. There are exceptions, but most music doesn't even really utilize a sub. There are also examples of tracks with bloated bass above some sub's frequencies. A sub doesn't compliment those well when you are a bit free wheeling with the sub's volume.
5)A sub requires an amp with a dedicated sub out in order to extend and make the extension dial work and fine tune. Only get a sub if you are ok or prepared to change an old amp. Otherwise don't do it.

You can't just add any sub to your shopping cart. Subs simply require "nerding around" on specs. You 'always' need to know what loudspeakers you stick to in order to find a matching sub. Why? Because you need to find the bass extension point of your loudspeakers in the manual. Your sub needs to cover a (by preference) wide spectrum of frequencies below this point. Otherwise your sub just doubles your woofer output and anyone will kind of regret. It has cost me days until I finally found a match and I am glad I didn't buy just one impulsively.

ow yeah.. for when you have a really small room and no space for a sub. The Arylic A50 (a really small amp) has this double bass setting for cinema. It might sound sketchy but it is effective.

 

[giocap]

I have two stereo setups with a sub each. From a bit of experience in the production world and as a listener I would like to make a pros and cons list. I think it might help making a choice since a lot is in the gray area of decission making in personal preference cases.

Why to purchase a sub
1) a little extra reach at the bottom edge. It makes bookshelf speakers sound like there are floorstanders.
2. Some music utilizes a subwoofer.
3. Great addition for Jazz, in the sense of being there.
4. Atmospheric movie effects.

I use them a little below the bass extension, to a point that when you turn on the sub there is slightly more presence. But you don't really notice that there is a sub if you don't know there is one. With the right combo in volume, and bass extension point it will do well allround.

against
1)Don't only do it for the explosions in movies. About 90% of movies and series focus on dialogue, so a good midrange coverage is by far more important than deep bass.
2) Also keep it in mind that when your room conditions are ok and you have found the ideal setting for a reproduction of that typical boomy cinema sound, it might be totally off for music.
3)The versatility of a sub is both pro and con at the same time. Dialing up the sub's volume for one track to enhance the atmosphere might be a bad idea for the next track. The weighed settings for a little extra support are usually preferable.
4)Don't really do it for music in general. There are exceptions, but most music doesn't even really utilize a sub. There are also examples of tracks with bloated bass above some sub's frequencies. A sub doesn't compliment those well when you are a bit free wheeling with the sub's volume.
5)A sub requires an amp with a dedicated sub out in order to extend and make the extension dial work and fine tune. Only get a sub if you are ok or prepared to change an old amp. Otherwise don't do it.

You can't just add any sub to your shopping cart. Subs simply require "nerding around" on specs. You 'always' need to know what loudspeakers you stick to in order to find a matching sub. Why? Because you need to find the bass extension point of your loudspeakers in the manual. Your sub needs to cover a (by preference) wide spectrum of frequencies below this point. Otherwise your sub just doubles your woofer output and anyone will kind of regret. It has cost me days until I finally found a match and I am glad I didn't buy just one impulsively.

ow yeah.. for when you have a really small room and no space for a sub. The Arylic A50 (a really small amp) has this double bass setting for cinema. It might sound sketchy but it is effective.

You confirm my suspicions. I think i'll stick with towers for a long time.
I am exclusively a music guy.... movies not so much.

 

[AJM1981]

You confirm my suspicions. I think i'll stick with towers for a long time.
I am exclusively a music guy.... movies not so much.

yeah, good choice

Subs are in so many different flavors given the range they cover, some of them are almost like what an average woofer does and some really dig deep.

Most towers go pretty deep already, a sub with a deep bottom end certainly can scoop up a few extra frequencies beyond what some towers produce beyond the roll off point. But it might not be worth having almost a "dead" sub which only kicks in a few percent of the time.

My current sub is already kind of lazy, but for my three way standmounts it is still a nice addition I will use "the war anthem" by Max Richter as a good excuse.

 

[The End]

The early 2-channel systems were not stereo, only 2 channels. Soon we got 2-channel and even 4-channel stereo. Later we got 5.1 channels stereo and more. Stereo is space, regardless of the number of channels. Subs are not channels and don't enter into it.

 

[AJM1981]

The early 2-channel systems were not stereo, only 2 channels.

Let me try to follow this.

Music started mono, so if the source is or was mono, or had mono content,the two loudspeakers only create more presence. Now I don't know if the very first dual speaker setups were released in mono-only times or that they came along with popularisation of the very first stereo recordings. Gap in my history.

Soon we got 2-channel and even 4-channel stereo.

eh.. a stereo recording over 2 channels is technically and by definition stereo. Yes, you can create 4 channel stereo with 2 sets of loudspeakers on 1 amp but what you probably mean is Quadrophonics in which content created for a 4 channel separation was applied.

quote:
“Stereo” is short for stereophonic. It originates from the Greek word “stereos”, which means “solid, firm, and three-dimensional”. Stereo audio has two audio signals designed for two separate audio channels, which creates a perception of space."

Later we got 5.1 channels stereo and more. Stereo is space, regardless of the number of channels. Subs are not channels and don't enter into it.

Dolby Surround or the later Dolby Digital creates a 5 channel separation when the content is 5.1. The sub is the. 1 because it is the bottom vertical aspect of frequencies that it reproduces. Not a channel indeed, but when satellite speakers hardly produce any bass, it can be kind of perceived as an extra channel.