Audio mixer advice

Brizzol

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Feb 16, 2022
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Hi everyone
I am looking for some advice on a small audio mixer.
Ok here’s my set up…

I have a Canon XA11 camcorder which I have purchased to film small dance/musical theatre shows.
I previously used a dlsr for this but have just upgraded.
so I filmed a show recently (the first one with this camera) I used an XLR line in from the sound desk and I encountered a lot of distortion when there was loud singing, the music side of it was fine.
so my thoughts are to buy a small audio mixer to go between the sound desk and the XLR inputs on my camera, to have a bit more control over my audio levels.
I don’t need anything too fancy just something simple that can do what I need it to do, which is to have an XLR input and output.

does anyone have any recommendations for something like this?
I don’t know a lot about audio mixers so I’m learning on the fly here.
thanks.
 

Gray

Well-known member
....I encountered a lot of distortion when there was loud singing, the music side of it was fine.
Hi Brizzol.
Nice looking camera.
I am I right to assume that the venue's sound desk is not under your control - because no additional mixer should be necessary.
If the music from it was clean, then the vocals (in correct proportion) should have been clean too.

No doubt you're set to line-in on the camera.
If you don't already, it's advisable to use manual level control and live monitor with headphones.

Professional desks have (one or more) auxiliary sends on each input channel.
If that's the case, you could have your own mix (with its own master level control) just for your camera - independent of the mix going to the venue's PA system - which I assume is the mix you were using.
If you know the make / model of the sound desk.....and are you in control (or can you have a word with whoever is) ?

If you were to buy your own mixer (which wouldn't have to have XLR outputs), you'd effectively just be doing what your cameras input level controls are doing.
And, if it's the case that you're being sent an (occasionally) distorted signal from the desk, you would just be attenuating and recording a quieter, but still distorted, signal.
 
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Brizzol

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Feb 16, 2022
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Hi Brizzol.
Nice looking camera.
I am I right to assume that the venue's sound desk is not under your control - because no additional mixer should be necessary.
If the music from it was clean, then the vocals (in correct proportion) should have been clean too.

No doubt you're set to line-in on the camera.
If you don't already, it's advisable to use manual level control and live monitor with headphones.

Professional desks have (one or more) auxiliary sends on each input channel.
If that's the case, you could have your own mix (with its own master level control) just for your camera - independent of the mix going to the venue's PA system - which I assume is the mix you were using.
If you know the make / model of the sound desk.....and are you in control (or can you have a word with whoever is) ?

If you were to buy your own mixer (which wouldn't have to have XLR outputs), you'd effectively just be doing what your cameras input level controls are doing.
And, if it's the case that you're being sent an (occasionally) distorted signal from the desk, you would just be attenuating and recording a quieter, but still distorted, signal.

He Gray
Thanks for your reply, yes you are correct the venue sound desk is not under my control,
I asked the sound guy if I could have an audio feed for my camera and he gave me the XLR lead. I had my camera set to line in and was using manual level controls and was also monitoring it on my headphones.
It all makes sense what you have said and I am very new to the audio side of things,
I filmed there over two days and after playing my footage back after the first day and realising how bad it was, on the second day I asked if I could have the levels for just the microphones to be lowered, which he did, but all that happened was the volume of the vocals were lower but still with the distortion.
I do want to use an XLR input to my camera for the reason that I can then set up two separate inputs as I have a wireless mic that I want to set up near the stage to pick up tap dancing and audience applause.
thanks again.
 

Gray

Well-known member
....on the second day I asked if I could have the levels for just the microphones to be lowered, which he did, but all that happened was the volume of the vocals were lower but still with the distortion.
That's very interesting. You made the right request, he was obliging and yet, there's an obvious overloading issue that needs investigation. (Seems likely that the same distortion would be present through his PA - though probably masked by all other noise).

When I said any mixer you bought need not have XLR out, I meant that you could use RCA / jack to XLR leads / adaptors (so still feed your camera with XLR).

Sadly though, the distortion issue is out of your hands and not something that can be cured by an additional mixer (not unless that mixer was fed by your own mics, under your control).
 

Brizzol

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That's very interesting. You made the right request, he was obliging and yet, there's an obvious overloading issue that needs investigation. (Seems likely that the same distortion would be present through his PA - though probably masked by all other noise).

When I said any mixer you bought need not have XLR out, I meant that you could use RCA / jack to XLR leads / adaptors (so still feed your camera with XLR).

Sadly though, the distortion issue is out of your hands and not something that can be cured by an additional mixer (not unless that mixer was fed by your own mics, under your control).

Yes it’s a weird one, I will make no secret of the fact that when it comes to the audio side of things I am an absolute beginner and I am learning from the bottom up.
Another set up I have used in the past is to use a vhf wireless microphone, which I have set up between the venue speakers and the audience and I have got surprisingly good results.
I am toying with the idea of purchasing an XLR wireless microphone system ( an XLR transmitter and receiver and a dynamic XLR microphone) would I be right in thinking that it would give me better results than the vhf system?
 

Gray

Well-known member
Yes it’s a weird one, I will make no secret of the fact that when it comes to the audio side of things I am an absolute beginner and I am learning from the bottom up.
Another set up I have used in the past is to use a vhf wireless microphone, which I have set up between the venue speakers and the audience and I have got surprisingly good results.
I am toying with the idea of purchasing an XLR wireless microphone system ( an XLR transmitter and receiver and a dynamic XLR microphone) would I be right in thinking that it would give me better results than the vhf system?
My brother and I used to use a VHF mic when we did wedding videos - OK most of the time, just odd bit of annoying hiss as it lost signal. Since then there have been diversity types, that reduce the chances of dropouts. It's been a while for me but my brother has kept up with developments and I think he's now got something decent from Rode.
If I can, I'll find out if he can recommend anything and then I'll get back to you......
 

Gray

Well-known member
...
I am toying with the idea of purchasing an XLR wireless microphone system ( an XLR transmitter and receiver and a dynamic XLR microphone) would I be right in thinking that it would give me better results than the vhf system?
Yes the latest products are quite advanced.
Might be worth avoiding UHF types, which can (officially) involve licencing issues.
Brother told me this is what he's got:
It uses wi-fi frequencies (but not wi-fi itself).
He reckoned it may well have been superseded by now though, so it may be worth researching what's current from them and the likes of Sennheiser. (y)
 
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Brizzol

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Thanks for that really appreciate it.
that looks like a nice bit of kit and I know Rode are right up there with the best stuff, unfortunately a little out of my budget at the mo.

I have been looking at this…


It has a lot of good reviews and uses wifi frequency.

also I was looking at this microphone, it says it is designed for vocal use so not sure if it would do what I need and pick up music well?

 

Gray

Well-known member
Thanks for that really appreciate it.
that looks like a nice bit of kit and I know Rode are right up there with the best stuff, unfortunately a little out of my budget at the mo.

I have been looking at this…


It has a lot of good reviews and uses wifi frequency.

also I was looking at this microphone, it says it is designed for vocal use so not sure if it would do what I need and pick up music well?

I can't comment on the TX/RX, but the good reviews must say something.
The SM58 is legendary - anyone that hasn't used one, has certainly seen and heard them in action.
Their frequency response has a presence boost to enhance vocals - for your purposes it may be worth looking at mics with a flatter response.
 

Brizzol

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I can't comment on the TX/RX, but the good reviews must say something.
The SM58 is legendary - anyone that hasn't used one, has certainly seen and heard them in action.
Their frequency response has a presence boost to enhance vocals - for your purposes it may be worth looking at mics with a flatter response.

Ok yes that makes sense.
The frequency response of the Sm58 is 50-15,000 Hz
What sort of frequency response should I be looking for? Something that goes up to 20,000?
 

Gray

Well-known member
Ok yes that makes sense.
The frequency response of the Sm58 is 50-15,000 Hz
What sort of frequency response should I be looking for? Something that goes up to 20,000?
Scroll down and look at the frequency response plot of the SM58:
The (darker) trace shows the sensitivity of the mic at different frequencies.
What you're interested in is how and where the trace deviates from that 0dB central horizontal line - because you can see how the mic will sound.
Notice that at around 5kHz, it's 5dB more sensitive than it is at all other frequencies. That's significant and deliberate - to give more clarity to vocals (and why vocalists like the mic so much).

If you were to use it to mic up instruments / PA speakers, you'd get clarity, but you would be favouring the sounds in the boosted regions.

When I say check out mics with a 'flat' response, I mean ones where the trace looks flatter - closer to the 0dB flat line - ideally, equally sensitive to all frequencies.
Now checkout the FR plot for the Rode NT1 as an example.......which I just did and even that is 5dB up at around 11-12kHz so likely have a more prominent treble.
See if you can do better (at the right price ;)).
 
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Brizzol

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Yes that totally makes sense!
Thank you for taking the time to explain all this to me its much appreciated.
Now i have a bit more knowledge on the matter i can do more research and have more of an idea what I'm looking for.
Thanks again.
 
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